RAF Variant Export into JPG, result looks different and dpi
Hello
I'm completely new to RAW photography and especially editing.
Therefore I'm not sure if i do something wrong or if the adjustments are just too extreme.
Have a very dark underexposed and unsaturated photo and just out of curiosity i changed the "curve" under the Exposure Tab, and added 4 more "points" in a zigzag curve.
The Picture looks very extreme, like a painting, the highlights are blown out according to the histogram and there were no highlights in the beginning to start with.
I'm just playing around, but still i would like a jpg version of the result for later comparison with other versions.
But when exporting as Variant (Jpg) the exported jpg looks completely different than what i see in C1. It adds a lot of white dots that looks like "noise" and a lot of color is missing too. When exporting to .RAF all is identical.
Have tried with the quality bar set to 100%, have tried different ICC profiles, and also played with the DPI - the effect is more or even the same, no cropping.
Also i don't see any difference between a 10dpi jpg and a 300dpi - which seems to be the default.
The Jpg's straight out of the cameras have 72dpi. But in the RAF file i don't see any dpi or resolution value except the 6240x4160.
I understand dpi is just something when one wants to print out the results on paper?
Thank you for the hints and tipps.
I'm completely new to RAW photography and especially editing.
Therefore I'm not sure if i do something wrong or if the adjustments are just too extreme.
Have a very dark underexposed and unsaturated photo and just out of curiosity i changed the "curve" under the Exposure Tab, and added 4 more "points" in a zigzag curve.
The Picture looks very extreme, like a painting, the highlights are blown out according to the histogram and there were no highlights in the beginning to start with.
I'm just playing around, but still i would like a jpg version of the result for later comparison with other versions.
But when exporting as Variant (Jpg) the exported jpg looks completely different than what i see in C1. It adds a lot of white dots that looks like "noise" and a lot of color is missing too. When exporting to .RAF all is identical.
Have tried with the quality bar set to 100%, have tried different ICC profiles, and also played with the DPI - the effect is more or even the same, no cropping.
Also i don't see any difference between a 10dpi jpg and a 300dpi - which seems to be the default.
The Jpg's straight out of the cameras have 72dpi. But in the RAF file i don't see any dpi or resolution value except the 6240x4160.
I understand dpi is just something when one wants to print out the results on paper?
Thank you for the hints and tipps.
0
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Make sure that you're exporting with your desired colorspace(most use sRGB or Adobe RGB 1998).
Also make sure that your .jpg viewer is reading and outputting the correct colorspace. Did you use another program to view the .jpeg or did you use the Captureone Viewer? If you used another program try looking at it in Captureone Viewer to see if the images match.0 -
Thank you for the reply.
My windows settings using the same color space srgb as in C1. (Exact same IEC number)
But haven't done anything in there, should i calibrate it maybe? - i fear it a bit 😊
In Faststone Image viewer i can only enable or disable CMS with no visible change.
In the Win10 Photos app and Win 7 Photo viewer - i think it takes the settings from the windows settings, because there are no settings.
The funny thing is when i import the exported jpg back into C1 i see the same as when i view it with the other viewers.
I searched for Capture One viewer, because i thought there might be a separate program, but you mean the Viewer inside of CaptureOne 12? When just selecting a photo and it displays, rigtht?
Have done now another less dramatic variant, the white dots or the noise is drastically reduced but still there, and the most change i see, is in the colors. In C1 when editing and i see green and yellow, and after the export it gets more reddish brownish. Also in C1 i have a beautiful black, and in the export it's "grey".
Checked also my Nvidia Color output format, and there i can only set RGB or YCbCr422 and YCbCr444. It's on RGB.0 -
[quote="NNN636914942609813786" wrote:
Thank you for the reply.
My windows settings using the same color space srgb as in C1. (Exact same IEC number)
But haven't done anything in there, should i calibrate it maybe? - i fear it a bit 😊
In Faststone Image viewer i can only enable or disable CMS with no visible change.
In the Win10 Photos app and Win 7 Photo viewer - i think it takes the settings from the windows settings, because there are no settings.
The funny thing is when i import the exported jpg back into C1 i see the same as when i view it with the other viewers.
I searched for Capture One viewer, because i thought there might be a separate program, but you mean the Viewer inside of CaptureOne 12? When just selecting a photo and it displays, rigtht?
Have done now another less dramatic variant, the white dots or the noise is drastically reduced but still there, and the most change i see, is in the colors. In C1 when editing and i see green and yellow, and after the export it gets more reddish brownish. Also in C1 i have a beautiful black, and in the export it's "grey".
Checked also my Nvidia Color output format, and there i can only set RGB or YCbCr422 and YCbCr444. It's on RGB.
In Faststone you need to tick the "autodetect and use monitor profile" checkbox in the CMS tab to enable colour management.
Ian0 -
Yes i did try it with both settings. CMS enabled and disabled and i see no difference.
But as i wrote the problem exist also when i import back into C1.
Have also found this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=29694
And it seems like a similar issue, therefore tried also the setting suggested form the support.
But also here, with or without OPENCL on auto or never, i see no difference.
Even when i do no adjustments, just export the original RAF into jpg, i see the black is getting very slightly grey.
What i also don't understand, for example the Kelvin is 2830 something and sharpening is 80 in the RAF.
When i export and import the jpg in C1, the Kelvin is 5000 and the sharpening is 0. (There are also some other values changed that i didn't touch)
When i now move the Kelvin back to 2830 in the jpg and set sharpening to 80 and do another export (jpg->jpg) then it's back on 5000 and 0. (Although editing a jpg is not very feasable i know that, but whats the point of editing a raw when the exported jpg has completely other values?)
So during the export the software must be doing something to the jpg that i can't control in the export menu.
Are there some hidden settings? Unfortunately I haven't found anything in preferences that has something to do with export.0 -
[quote="NNN636914942609813786" wrote:
Yes i did try it with both settings. CMS enabled and disabled and i see no difference.
But as i wrote the problem exist also when i import back into C1.
Have also found this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=29694
And it seems like a similar issue, therefore tried also the setting suggested form the support.
But also here, with or without OPENCL on auto or never, i see no difference.
Even when i do no adjustments, just export the original RAF into jpg, i see the black is getting very slightly grey.
What i also don't understand, for example the Kelvin is 2830 something and sharpening is 80 in the RAF.
When i export and import the jpg in C1, the Kelvin is 5000 and the sharpening is 0. (There are also some other values changed that i didn't touch)
When i now move the Kelvin back to 2830 in the jpg and set sharpening to 80 and do another export (jpg->jpg) then it's back on 5000 and 0. (Although editing a jpg is not very feasable i know that, but whats the point of editing a raw when the exported jpg has completely other values?)
So during the export the software must be doing something to the jpg that i can't control in the export menu.
Are there some hidden settings? Unfortunately I haven't found anything in preferences that has something to do with export.
Raw and Jpeg are two completely different kind of files. Jpeg is a raster file. There's no white balance or sharpening or any other setting value to read from a Jpeg. A Jpeg doesn't need the interpretation of a converter to live as an image. Jpeg is already an image by itself. When you open a Jpeg on CO this just put all the sliders on a neutral position. A Jpeg file is generated according to your edits but these are not written in your file because it would be totally useless. There's no reason for any viewer to know that you had set sharpening to 80 in Capture One. A viewer simply read RGB pixel values and bring them on screen.
For all the other issues, did you compare your Raw and your Jpeg (both in CO and in an external viewer) at 100% zoom?
If not, different algorithms and different zoom factors can produce very different interpolations and therefore different programs might show very different images.
DPI (actually it should be PPI) are meaningless as long as you're just viewing your images on a screen, unless you're previewing print size.
You shouldn't put any color space in your Windows monitor setting. sRGB (or any other color space) does not describe your monitor. You should leave that for you colorimeter (if you have one) to set there your monitor profiles.0 -
Thank you for the clarification, that makes sense why the sliders go back with every export.
Unfortunately i don't have a colorimeter and in windows color management everything is at default.
Yes i have compared them in 3 viewers, Win10 Photo app, Win 7 Photo viewer and imported back into C1 and viewed them at 100%. They all look more or even identical, but looking different from the original. (Colorshift and black is washed out sometimes white dots like noise)
At the moment, to get the most true result, i screenshot the edited RAF and put them together in PAINT.NET. 😊
Kidding but i did try it for a test, and isn't that and the fact that re-importing to C1 a hint that it cannot be the color profile settings?
Is it normal that "brighter" shots get less "disturbed," then darker shots? Or in other words, is the "error-rate" or "failure-rate" higher in exporting darker underexposed shots than brighter ones?
Or
When one raises brightness and exposure and/or saturation too much, does it introduce (more likely) "noise" in the export?
Because i also edited now a brighter one, did the auto adjustment, and here i can see almost no difference.
But its hard to compare i guess, because the histogram looks completely different from the dark one.0
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