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New ICC Profile Designer

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lumariver profile designer - this is a great addition for captureone because with this software we can finally build custom icc profiles with a lot of tuning options not available before. the downside is that it is a little complicated and the documentation could be better but i managed to build some basic profiles with very good rendering on my first try. makes me wish phase one would offer an integrated profiling solution in future versions.
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Comments

18 comments

Date Votes
  • OptionalAlias
    Thank you.
    Will take a closer look at it.
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  • Corey Riggle
    Awesome, holy grail stuff here for the price point. Phase should just buy these guys.
    😄
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  • ChrisM
    No doubt a very inspiring project, and for once, not at an astronomic price tag.

    But what would be the benefit of say, profiling a Sony A7rII over using the provided profile with a linear curve and a custimized rgb curve? My problem with the default rendering of CO1, is the standard film curve, that obliterates details in skies and tends to produce cartoonish looks with many images due to over saturation and crushed shadows.
    The colors themselves (provided that they properly calibrated a camera) seem to be quite ok, which cannot be said of all raw converters.
    As I understand it, choosing linear, you get only the color profile applied, together with a 2.2 gamma curve. That should provide a very good starting point and only takes a few carefully tweaked rgb curves that you can save as presets.
    So, other than reproduction or art photography, what is the benefit over profiling yourself, often with no more than a 24 patch color card?

    Chris
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  • Robert Farhi
    [quote="ChrisM" wrote:

    As I understand it, choosing linear, you get only the color profile applied, together with a 2.2 gamma curve.


    Ahh ahhhh !! Where did you get the info about the 2.2 gamma curve, please ? I didn't know that !!

    [quote="ChrisM" wrote:

    That should provide a very good starting point and only takes a few carefully tweaked rgb curves that you can save as presets.

    Chris


    On my side, I prefer a tweaked Luma curve rather than an RGB curve, as the former doesn't modify colors, while the latter saturates a little.
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  • ---
    [quote="ChrisM" wrote:
    No doubt a very inspiring project, and for once, not at an astronomic price tag.

    But what would be the benefit of say, profiling a Sony A7rII over using the provided profile with a linear curve and a custimized rgb curve? My problem with the default rendering of CO1, is the standard film curve, that obliterates details in skies and tends to produce cartoonish looks with many images due to over saturation and crushed shadows.
    The colors themselves (provided that they properly calibrated a camera) seem to be quite ok, which cannot be said of all raw converters.
    As I understand it, choosing linear, you get only the color profile applied, together with a 2.2 gamma curve. That should provide a very good starting point and only takes a few carefully tweaked rgb curves that you can save as presets.
    So, other than reproduction or art photography, what is the benefit over profiling yourself, often with no more than a 24 patch color card?

    Chris



    you only need to read the LRPD manual availabe on the website. the developer explains in detail the benefits of profiling and also how c1 deals with contrast, curves and profiles. the software is a little difficult to understand but with some trial and error i was able to build a a7r2 profile optimized for skin-tones ( my taste of curse ) which is in superior to what i can get using onboard tools.
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  • ---
    [quote="Corey Riggle" wrote:
    Awesome, holy grail stuff here for the price point. Phase should just buy these guys.
    😄



    yes this would be great but they could also just make their in house profiling tool available to all of us....
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  • dee jjjaaaa
    [quote="Corey Riggle" wrote:
    Awesome, holy grail stuff here for the price point. Phase should just buy these guys.
    😄

    dcamprof from the same author is free and existed for 2+ years ( http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/ind ... c=100015.0 ) ... command line is not that difficult.
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  • Corey Riggle
    [quote="deejjjaaaa" wrote:
    [quote="Corey Riggle" wrote:
    Awesome, holy grail stuff here for the price point. Phase should just buy these guys.
    😄

    dcamprof from the same author is free and existed for 2+ years ( http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/ind ... c=100015.0 ) ... command line is not that difficult.


    I wasn't aware of dcamprof, I'll check it out.
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  • dee jjjaaaa
    1.0.2 was released
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  • Corey Riggle
    [quote="Horseoncowboy " wrote:
    [quote="Corey Riggle" wrote:
    Awesome, holy grail stuff here for the price point. Phase should just buy these guys.
    😄



    yes this would be great but they could also just make their in house profiling tool available to all of us....


    Do you know that they have a custom tool?
    I'm sure they consider whatever black magick was used to create an internal tool a significant competitive advantage and releasing it to us would release it to everyone.
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  • Photocor
    [quote="tenmangu81" wrote:
    [quote="ChrisM" wrote:

    .....
    On my side, I prefer a tweaked Luma curve rather than an RGB curve, as the former doesn't modify colors, while the latter saturates a little.


    On my side too. I prefer this way of working, linear curve + luma , often it avoids to modify highlight and dark.

    Regards
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  • ---
    [quote="Corey Riggle" wrote:
    Do you know that they have a custom tool?
    I'm sure they consider whatever black magick was used to create an internal tool a significant competitive advantage and releasing it to us would release it to everyone.


    don´t belief there is black magic at work but they tune the profiles for a certain look and this is not always what photographers want and like. so to be able to easy build a neutral custom profile within c1 like it is possible with phocus could be a great benefit. it has not to be a stand alone software and if i don´t know one raw converter which could make use those special c1 icc profiles.
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  • ---
    [quote="Photocor" wrote:
    [quote="tenmangu81" wrote:
    [quote="ChrisM" wrote:

    .....
    On my side, I prefer a tweaked Luma curve rather than an RGB curve, as the former doesn't modify colors, while the latter saturates a little.


    On my side too. I prefer this way of working, linear curve + luma , often it avoids to modify highlight and dark.

    Regards


    the problem is that it seems the c1 profiles are build for use with the standard tone curve not linear so with this approach you solve the contrast issues but the colors are off. one of the many reason to build a custom profil...
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  • Robert Farhi
    [quote="Horseoncowboy " wrote:

    the problem is that it seems the c1 profiles are build for use with the standard tone curve not linear so with this approach you solve the contrast issues but the colors are off. one of the many reason to build a custom profil...


    Yes, but I don't use the C1 profiles, but a custom profile.... 😉
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  • Photocor
    [quote="Horseoncowboy " wrote:
    the problem is that it seems the c1 profiles are build for use with the standard tone curve not linear so with this approach you solve the contrast issues but the colors are off. one of the many reason to build a custom profil...

    Yes, but it's still better with a little habit: you apply a default lumar curve done with your proper wishes.

    And as Tenmangu81 I use a custom profile. 😄
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  • Robert Farhi
    [quote="Horseoncowboy " wrote:

    the problem is that it seems the c1 profiles are build for use with the standard tone curve not linear so with this approach you solve the contrast issues but the colors are off. one of the many reason to build a custom profil...


    I've been a little bit curious about that, and had a look at the User Manual.
    They say:
    "The Film Standard curve has been designed to give a similar look to transparency film, with deep blacks and bright mid-tones and highlights. Film Extra Shadow offers similar tone characteristics, with less contrast in the shadows. Film Contrast has higher contrast than Film Standard, with deeper shadows and brighter highlights. The Linear option has reduced contrast overall and is intended to offer maximum control of tone mapping using the Curves Tool."
    So, at first sight, it seems that any curve can be used with the generic ICC profile built by Capture One for the used camera. Did you find the information somewhere else ? I would be interested in more information about ICC profiles and curves. I asked Phase One to give me some, but they didn't want to disclose anything, what we can understand as this is the main strength of the software.
    Thanks,
    Robert
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  • ---
    [quote="tenmangu81" wrote:
    I would be interested in more information about ICC profiles and curves. I asked Phase One to give me some, but they didn't want to disclose anything, what we can understand as this is the main strength of the software.



    i highly recommend to read the c1 profile section of the lumarriver profile designer manual to better understand how c1 color management and tone curves interact. the tone curves do have an impact on color. you can easy check this by yourself but if you don´t do color critical work you will probably never observe the difference because white-balance and contrast settings cover the slight changes. so for the majority of users this will never be an issue.

    but you can greatly improve your color rendering and workflow with tuned tone-curves and profiles.
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  • Robert Farhi
    Thanks for the information about this Lumariver User Manual !!
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