Express Version
My newly acquired Olympus EPL-5 is not supported in version 6 of C1 Express. I have used C1 for years but I have never had the Pro version - no need to as far as I am concerned since I don't really need all the wonderful features. However when will V7 of C1 Express come out? I know that with all the free updates to V6 I will now have to pay for V7 - no problem. I would like a date, though.
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There's not going to be a 7 Express, Ron - Express users have been unceremoniously dumped by Phase One, and the only upgrade path available to us is the Pro version.
Or Lightroom. Or DxO Optics.
Phase One needs to remember that Capture One isn't the only game in town...0 -
Another answer - we the users have no real clue as to what is going on at Phase One. Any answers of substance come after a service report is filed and answered. But clear answers to "if " and "when" are never given. Sometimes a hint is dropped.
In the case of Express - I don't recall anyone saying they actually received a hint of "we are working on it".
Media Pro has the same issue; one with CO7 - there has been a hint of "we are working on it" , but it has been a long time since then.
Bottom line - it is easy to get frustrated with Phase One and their communication philosophy.0 -
Thanks for the replies. Does not sound encouraging. Perhaps I should be looking for another product. Are you listening Phase One?
Ron0 -
I was in the same situation as yourself. Recently bought two new cameras, a Canon 650D and Olympus EPM2, both not supported by CO Express v6 and did not want to upgrade to V7 pro. I am now a happy Lightroom 4.3 user. I can not justify the cost of upgrading to CO 7 Pro. The cost of LR4 is quite attractive compared to CO 7 Pro and can't see myself going back to CO. 0 -
More depressing reading on the same subject:
viewtopic.php?t=13072
Pay particular note of the lip-service "say anything to shut them up" comments and then complete silence from certain of Phase One's "crew"...0 -
I must apologize. I did not intend to duplicate a thread on this subject.
However, I think if Phase One moves ahead to cease express versions they are effectively killing off a user base and potential customers who may one day wish to move to the pro version. This is sad because DPReview just completed a 3-way review of Lightroom 4, Capture One 7 and DxO Optics Pro 8 and from what I can decipher Capture One came out on top in terms of raw conversion colour accuracy.
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/821958 ... ightroom-4
Anyway, Lightroom offers a "teachers version" for US79 and that is where I might go.
Ron0 -
[quote="Ron622" wrote:
I must apologize. I did not intend to duplicate a thread on this subject.
You're not the one that needs to aploogise, Ron - that'd be Phase One. This is no way to treat customers, and you'll have noticed their ongoing recalcitrance and refusal to be drawn on this subject, which is both ignorant and insulting.[quote="Ron622" wrote:
This is sad because DPReview just completed a 3-way review of Lightroom 4, Capture One 7 and DxO Optics Pro 8 and from what I can decipher Capture One came out on top in terms of raw conversion colour accuracy.
Capture One's colours are great, but not "better" than the others: in fact in that review, DxO Optics get the nod for default colour rendering, and ties with Cap One for skin tones, depending on camera.
Phase One dines out on the idea of Capture One's "magical" colour rendition, and it's an exaggerated, oversold benefit.
As the review states:the truth is that the differences among Capture One Pro 7, DxO Optics Pro 8 and Lightroom 4 are relatively small. And those that do exist, revolve around default image rendering.
And that:it's rare that you achieve a result in one converter that cannot be reasonably matched in the others.
Capture One 7 isn't so special that Phase One has a legitimate case for "gouging" its customers...
I note that another "Ron", who had been involved in the earlier thread on this subject, has gone to the trouble of adding this comment to the DPR review:Used Capture One Express for a number of years but it seems PhaseOne aren't bothered about the cheaper version anymore. Having now switched to LR4 i'm pretty happy now i've got used to it. As an amateur there is no way I can justify paying the price difference between Lightroom and Capture One Pro, nor do I see really what you get for that extra money.
Good. The more people know about Phase One's crappy behaviour here, the better.0 -
Seriously? We have hobbies, which cost a lot of money (Cam-Bodies, a lot of Objectives, Filters, ...). A lot of people are using Photoshop (not the Express Version). Photoshop upgrade: 450 € (just from CS5), New version 1350 €.
C1 6 --> C1 Pro 7: Upgrade from Express Version 200 €. After you pay this for one time (I guess, I did this in Version 4), the upgrade cost currently 69 € + vat.
Even this was a lot of money for me at this time, the advantage because of workflow, stiles, corrector of perspective, GUI, ... was great, that I never regret this decision. Of course I would prefer lower pricing, faster bugfixing, better software and faster camera support. But it seems, that Phase One doesn't have a lot of Software developer. 🙄
I guess Phase one currently haven't the resource to develope C1 Pro 7 (bugfixing), Media Pro (upgrade/new version) AND C1 Expression.
[sarcasm]Strange, that a small company with a big competitor doesn't give their work for free.... 🙄 [/quote] 😉
Maybe you would happier, if there would be just one company for all this stuff (Adobe).0 -
It may be worth remembering that Adobe used to ask about twice as much for LightRoom than they do now. Why was that? Or, to put it another way, how have they managed to justify the revised downward pricing?
More to the point, why do they not offer a LightRoom Lite so that people who ask for no more than a simple RAW converter program don't have to buy a larger and more complex product?
Wolfram makes a good point.
New products come and old products disappear where they have seemed unable to create a commercially effective position in the marketplace. Or, sometimes, have been bought out by larger organisations and, more often than not, trashed.
People cry over the lost ones, applaud the new ones and say they will certainly buy when it offers the same features as XYZ product, usually something from Adobe. Does that mean that people want to buy what Adobe offers but not from Adobe? Why would that be?
Maybe Adobe should do what the motor industry does and licence the core functionality to others who would be allowed to change a few things, mainly the UI and other cosmetics, and market their own 'version' of the product. Then the prices will be relatively harmonised and everyone, presumably, could be happy. For a while. Maybe.
Grant Perkins0 -
[quote="Ron622" wrote:
Anyway, Lightroom offers a "teachers version" for US79 and that is where I might go.
Ron
Sometime it seems, that here some people from adobe are hanging around, to force their sell of adobe products, but there is no need for this.
The next link show search entry in google for "Capture One Pro 7" and "Lightroom 4". [Lightroom = red; C1 = blue (the bottom line)]
http://www.google.de/trends/explore#q=C ... 204&cmpt=q
Or here: Capture One vers. Lightroom:
http://www.google.de/trends/explore#q=C ... oom&cmpt=q
If you compare just the google search entry, you'll see, that C1 haven't a chance to compete with the price (yet) and earning the same per selling product. Adobe earning so much, with CS-Products, they can even give away lightroom for free, without getting any financial problems.
Are you a teacher? So, i guess you earning money for teaching? But maybe, you are teaching for free?
And you know, why they make the prize for teachers low, don't you?0 -
[quote="SFA" wrote:
It may be worth remembering that Adobe used to ask about twice as much for LightRoom than they do now. Why was that? Or, to put it another way, how have they managed to justify the revised downward pricing?
Irrelevant, Grant - we've been over all of this ground already, and as I've pointed out before, even at its full price, Lr was less expensive than an upgrade from 6 Express to 7 Pro will be.More to the point, why do they not offer a LightRoom Lite so that people who ask for no more than a simple RAW converter program don't have to buy a larger and more complex product?
I'd like that myself - but there's no real need, because their pricing isn't a rip-off, and there's no sneaky, behind-the-scenes, disrespectful-to-customers withdrawal of product in Adobe's case.Wolfram makes a good point.
No, he really doesn't. His apologism is tiresome, and he routinely misses - or actively ignores - the points being made in favour of crass fanboyish defence of the Status quo, just he did in the last thread as a matter of course, and which I've pulled him up for. Yet he continues to do it.New products come and old products disappear where they have seemed unable to create a commercially effective position in the marketplace.
True, but - assuming a viable company - when has that ever happened without a single word about the withdrawal of the product coming from the provider?
Once more then, spelled out mainly for Wolfram's benefit.
It's really not the money that's the issue here, it's the way Phase One is behaving by completely ignoring its paying customers on an issue which is hugely important on principle.
This almost "bad faith" behaviour guarantees the loss of customers. All Phase One needs to do is say "OK, there'll be no 7 Express" and I'm confident that many current 6 Express users will accept that and - maybe - even stay with Phase One, especially if one of the occasional pricing deals on Pro comes up.
But as of right now, all that's happening is alienation, resentment, bad blood, and - a certainty - the migration of customers and potential customers to other solutions.
This isn't the same as refusing to be drawn on when or whether a given camera is going to be supported: it comes across as nothing more or less than petulant bloody-mindedness on the part of Phase One.
And it's a ridiculous way to run a company.0 -
Hi Keith,
sorry, but I don't try to be a fanboy, but thanks for the Flowers. I just try to give you arguments, why Phase One can't be compared with Adobe. 🙄 But maybe I am wrong and they both have the same opportunity.
This almost "bad faith" behaviour guarantees the loss of customers. All Phase One needs to do is say "OK, there'll be no 7 Express" and I'm confident that many current 6 Express users will accept that and - maybe - even stay with Phase One, especially if one of the occasional pricing deals on Pro comes up.
There are companies, they never will tell openly, what comes next, until it's out. This could have more reasons (i.e. they don't know, if they get out express by time; if there are enough (not just loud) customers, which will buy this; if it cost to much for the company to support both products; if they first want to support the profi customers with the pro-version and they don't know, when all main bugs are fixed, ...) and I also doesn't like it. Phase One have a bigger damage, if they say "Yes, there will be a Espress-Version", but the bugfixing cost to much time for the Pro-Version; the customers start to cry again, because of the "lie". I guess to become a company of Vaporware is more critical than just saying nothing until it's done. And a lot of People are waiting for the next version of Media Pro. As long as I really don't know the real reason, I'm carefully with insults.
But you are may be right. I should keep my mouth shut, because I don't try to see it monocausal.
By the way: Here is a comparison of google trends between Capture One Pro and Capture One Express. Maybe this could be a reason? I don't know, how far this google-trends can be trusted.
http://www.google.de/trends/explore#q=C ... ess&cmpt=q0 -
I just want to clear up something. Although I could probably get LR for the price I mentioned, the cost is not really the object. I have used C1 for years, enjoyed raw conversions on my cameras and would gladly pay more (within a reasonable limit, of course) for the Phase One product. Price is not necessarily the point IMHO.
Ron0 -
Keith,
If you have never experienced a company playing its decision making cards very close to its chest (for whatever reason) or if you have found another company broadcasting to the client base that they are dropping a current and mainstream product with no alternative approach available, then I think you are very lucky.
It happens all the time, sometimes through the company's choice. (Other times because the company in question is about to go out of business or be taken over and it cannot say anything. But that's a different situation.)
Secondly it is my understanding that some of the rules of the stock markets these days make it very risky to tell anyone anything much about your business plans if they at all speculative. A general strategy, fine, an announcement of buying a new business or selling an existing one, fine. An announcement that a product will be appearing when you are clear that it will and what it will be - then fine for that too. But if it is not clear what and when and so and might be considered speculative that is less good. Especially if you have any major operations in the US.
Now if you are a very long term major international established company and you decide to announce a product rather a long way ahead of its eventual release date people might look at that and say - makes sense, they need a product in that position to replace one that already exists and compete with the competition. We can let that ride by. (Although do it too often and reputation may start to suffer).
But if the product is at the other end of the market and your are niot totally sure you can deliver the product to that market at the required price point and/or technology and so on, then it may be best to say nothing publically until you can finally make a decision. Not because that's the way you want it but because there are sometimes legal reasons for being cautious about public pronouncements no matter how well intended.
OK, that might be more applicable to US Incorporated companies but anyone with a large part of their business in the US still needs to be careful. No idea if that is the case in this matter (or indeed if there is something similar to be concerned about in Europe) but it is one example of many possible whereby the corporate culture tends to dictate what is communicated to who, when and how.
Just a few thoughts on the subject for what they are worth.
Grant Perkins0 -
[quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:
There's not going to be a 7 Express, Ron - Express users have been unceremoniously dumped by Phase One, and the only upgrade path available to us is the Pro version.
Or Lightroom. Or DxO Optics.
Phase One needs to remember that Capture One isn't the only game in town...
Can you please point to where we have written that Keith?0 -
David,
Can you please show us where the Express 7 download is then? Where is the official statement from PhaseOne saying that there will be an express version released and when?
Didn't think you could.
No Express 7 version, no statement from Phase One = unceremoniously dumped by Phase One.0 -
And if the Express version 6 is not in limbo can you please show us where the latest camera updates are for it that have appeared for Pro 7 ? 0 -
[quote="dan122" wrote:
No Express 7 version, no statement from Phase One = unceremoniously dumped by Phase One.
An assumption Dan and nothing more.
The demand for an Express version is clear and we thank you all for your input regarding this software.0 -
[quote="Drew" wrote:
[quote="dan122" wrote:
No Express 7 version, no statement from Phase One = unceremoniously dumped by Phase One.
An assumption Dan and nothing more.
The demand for an Express version is clear and we thank you all for your input regarding this software.
To add to what Drew has quite correctly said...
I take on board what you have said, and unfortunately we can't comment on future releases.
But the demand is clear and I will take that back with me to the right people.
David.0
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