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New User having printing problems

Philip Cruse
Hi,
I've got C1 10.2.1 on test with the intention of giving up on LR. So far seems better than LR, apart from printing, and I still print out my images. I have Mac 10.12.6 and an Epson SP3880.
I'm having great trouble in putting description text at the bottom of images printed on A4 in 'landscape' format, which most of mine are. C1 insists on printing the text at the left hand edge of the image, despite it showing in the window as being underneath the image!
Page Setup in the 3880 driver is set to landscape.
Image size is set to 24cms wide x 16cms high.
Margins 2.57 top x 2.43 bottom, 2.85 L & R.
On pressing 'Print' the window briefly shows the image in Portrait mode!
Is it something I'm doing, or a bug, if a bug, is it fixed in Pro 11?
Being able to print images with a text description underneath (as in LR) is a decider for me, on whether to stick with LR or buy C1Pro.
Cheers,
Phil
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Comments

18 comments

Date Votes
  • SFA
    Phil,

    Sorry, no idea about your specific problem BUT 2 generic suggestions.

    If you have not tried "re-installing" the printer since installing Capture One I would try it. It sounds like you may have something like a partial installation problem. (Thinking of which - no updates to the to the Mac OS since the last time you printed I suppose?)

    Secondly, if the above does nothing for you, create a Support Case and with see what the C1 Support Team can come up.


    HTH.


    Grant
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  • Philip Cruse
    Hi Grant,

    Thanks for ideas.

    No updates to Mac for many months, and printing happily in LR every few days without problems, which makes me think that there's nothing wrong with printer software.

    Cheers,
    Phil
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  • SFA
    [quote="NNN636454080521181573" wrote:
    Hi Grant,

    Thanks for ideas.

    No updates to Mac for many months, and printing happily in LR every few days without problems, which makes me think that there's nothing wrong with printer software.

    Cheers,
    Phil


    Hi Phil,

    Perhaps nothing wrong with the printer software but just possible the installation was, for some reason, a tad incomplete in some way and might just need either a re-install or a re-boot or two to sort itself out.

    FWIW using a completely different editor, Windows and my Canon printer the only time I could be reasonably sure that everything would work as it looked on the screen was the very first time I attempted a print after re-installing the printer drivers.

    All subsequent prints were incredibly unpredictable. The source of the problem seemed to be any attempt at any form of scaling for any reason at all but the results for positioning and borders and how much of the image printed were random.

    The same printer on the same machine and with the same Windows release is pretty much fine using C1. Maybe a mm out on the margin but that could be a paper size thing.

    HTH.


    Grant
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  • Philip Cruse
    Hi Grant,
    Many thanks!
    Deleting the 3880 printer and remaking it seems to have done the job!
    I first tried printing to a Samsung BW laser, which worked OK.
    Cheers,
    Phil
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  • SFA
    [quote="NNN636454080521181573" wrote:
    Hi Grant,
    Many thanks!
    Deleting the 3880 printer and remaking it seems to have done the job!
    I first tried printing to a Samsung BW laser, which worked OK.
    Cheers,
    Phil


    Hi Phil,

    Glad that worked ... my second suggestion to most technical problems often involves the well known concept of hitting something with a hammer! Always guaranteed to produce a result - just not necessarily the one being sought.

    😉
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="SFA" wrote:


    FWIW using a completely different editor, Windows and my Canon printer the only time I could be reasonably sure that everything would work as it looked on the screen was the very first time I attempted a print after re-installing the printer drivers.

    Grant


    Hi Grant,

    I am very interested in your suggestion, as I can't obtain prints looking exactly as what I have on my (calibrated) screen with C1, and I thus have to print using the Photoshop printing tool.
    I will try to uninstall/reinstall the driver...... but how do you do it, as all the printers drivers are generically installed on a Mac ? Sorry if it is a naive question.... 🙄

    Thanks,
    Robert
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  • SFA
    [quote="tenmangu81" wrote:
    [quote="SFA" wrote:


    FWIW using a completely different editor, Windows and my Canon printer the only time I could be reasonably sure that everything would work as it looked on the screen was the very first time I attempted a print after re-installing the printer drivers.

    Grant


    Hi Grant,

    I am very interested in your suggestion, as I can't obtain prints looking exactly as what I have on my (calibrated) screen with C1, and I thus have to print using the Photoshop printing tool.
    I will try to uninstall/reinstall the driver...... but how do you do it, as all the printers drivers are generically installed on a Mac ? Sorry if it is a naive question.... 🙄

    Thanks,
    Robert


    Hi Robert,

    Being a Windows user the first option would be to re-install the driver for the printer (checking for updates at the same time). The second would be create a new instance of the printer and change the settings to reflect what one wants it to be by default not necessarily easy if it's something one does rarely.

    It sounds like Phil is the person to comment on this as I suspect that Apple only really allows the second part of the process - creating a new instance of the printer - during which it will pick up the various expected parameters for the driver and it is is likely those were the things that were "wrong", for whatever reason, and caused Phil's reported problem.

    That said I doubt that the parameters for colour would be entirely dealt with by that process. If default settings for size, margins or orientation are wrong for some reason (or interpreted wrongly on use) by something like scaling calculation changing the default parameters (to revised or corrected or updated requirements) is a relatively simple "fix". Just a data correction.

    The colour interpretation path is a rather different process with, potentially, a series of LUT table like conversions to be applied to convert what the program sends by way of data into a matrix of ink spot and colour mixes together with an understanding of the print media performance (how white is it, how does it "store" the ink spot data, etc.) what does it do about compression or enlargement instructions and so on, in order produce something that looks somewhat like the image we see on screen - which has bee through similar manipulations before we see it.

    Most of that colour control would be outside the scope of the printer driver's internal coding of supporting data in the case of using non-OEM output media or a profile not appropriate to the media on which the print is to be made.

    There was a time some years back when I recall that users were reporting serious problems (notable with Epson printers) every time Apple update the Mac OS as it seemed that Epson printer were rarely/never provided with modified drivers/settings as part of the development and users had to wait some months for them to become available.

    I doubt this was a Mac only problem but the benefit of Windows was and seems till to be that as and when the Printer Manufacturer updated their files and bundled a new driver version one could find it if needed, download it, run an install if required and, usually, fix the problem.

    Not ideal - ideal would be to have the required updates delivered with the OS update - but at least the duration of inconvenience could often be reduced when necessary.

    That said, in general if you are creating a file to print - a jpg for example - and printing it on the same printer using the same paper (or other media) but not getting the same results then you need first to look at the printer settings to see what might be different. (If it is possible to see a difference ....)

    If you are printing directly without an intermediate file then a number of factors are influencing the outcome and I am certainly not knowledgeable enough to provide guidance on that - especially not for Macs for which I have no experience for about 20 years.


    HTH.


    Grant
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  • Permanently deleted user
    Thanks Grant,

    My problem is that I can get WYSIWYG prints only when using Photoshop (tiff) or Affinity Photo (tiff again), or Apple's "Preview" (Yes !!), but not when I try to print direct from C1 (from a RAW or from a Tiff). My color management system is OK, as I have the same images on whatever screen (calibrated NEC or sRGB screen of my MacBook Pro) when comparing C1 with Photoshop, or with Affinity Photo.
    With Mac OS, it is rather difficult to update the printer driver, or even to download it, as it is ab initio in the system.
    OK, it is not so important for me, as I can get very good prints using Photoshop but, say, curious and intriguing.
    Cheers,
    Robert
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  • SFA
    [quote="tenmangu81" wrote:
    Thanks Grant,

    My problem is that I can get WYSIWYG prints only when using Photoshop (tiff) or Affinity Photo (tiff again), or Apple's "Preview" (Yes !!), but not when I try to print direct from C1 (from a RAW or from a Tiff). My color management system is OK, as I have the same images on whatever screen (calibrated NEC or sRGB screen of my MacBook Pro) when comparing C1 with Photoshop, or with Affinity Photo.
    With Mac OS, it is rather difficult to update the printer driver, or even to download it, as it is ab initio in the system.
    OK, it is not so important for me, as I can get very good prints using Photoshop but, say, curious and intriguing.
    Cheers,
    Robert


    Robert,


    Certainly curious.

    What sort of differences do you see?

    If you compare prints of the same file - let's say a tiff file for consistency of using a single file as the source - made using C1 and PS and Affinity - how do they seem different?

    How do you work with Soft proofing on each of the systems?

    Assuming the same printer, same ink and same print media, what output profile and gamut are each of the application set to use?

    I'm going to guess here that Affinity, since it has a wider application base than C1 being also a graphics editor, closely follows Adobe functionality for compatibility reasons (I also note the perpetual license and somewhat lower pricing compared to Adobe ...) so I am not surprised that the results look the same.


    Grant
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  • Permanently deleted user
    Grant,

    Of course I use the same output profiles when softproofing in each of the 3 applications (C1, Photoshop, Affinity) and when I print. The problem is that the colors are not consistent with those displayed on my calibrated screen when I use C1, whereas they are when I print from the 2 other apps. The difference is not very important, but it's a bit confusing as you can't trust what you see on your screen to anticipate what you'll get as a print.....
    Cheers,
    Robert
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  • SFA
    [quote="tenmangu81" wrote:
    Grant,

    Of course I use the same output profiles when softproofing in each of the 3 applications (C1, Photoshop, Affinity) and when I print. The problem is that the colors are not consistent with those displayed on my calibrated screen when I use C1, whereas they are when I print from the 2 other apps. The difference is not very important, but it's a bit confusing as you can't trust what you see on your screen to anticipate what you'll get as a print.....
    Cheers,
    Robert


    That makes me wonder if there is an additional consideration somewhere in the process chain that is unique to C1.

    If there is then whether that is in printing or screen display (or both) may be useful information. Perhaps also whether the same occurs using Windows OS.


    Grant
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  • Philip Cruse
    [quote="tenmangu81" wrote:
    [quote="SFA" wrote:


    FWIW using a completely different editor, Windows and my Canon printer the only time I could be reasonably sure that everything would work as it looked on the screen was the very first time I attempted a print after re-installing the printer drivers.

    Grant


    Hi Grant,

    I am very interested in your suggestion, as I can't obtain prints looking exactly as what I have on my (calibrated) screen with C1, and I thus have to print using the Photoshop printing tool.
    I will try to uninstall/reinstall the driver...... but how do you do it, as all the printers drivers are generically installed on a Mac ? Sorry if it is a naive question.... 🙄

    Thanks,
    Robert


    Hi Robert,

    Grant's suggestion fixed my problem, which was a bizarre 'physical' problem concerning the placement of description text, whereas yours is a colour problem. I 'm a brand new CiPro user (3 days!), so don't know much about it. However I've been using Macs and PS for over 20 years and LR about 5. I'm also a colour management consultant, having a website full of tips for folks about those subjects, who are mainly my remote printer profiling customers. If I settle on C1 I hope to put some tips on my site.

    Are you 'Managing by Printer' or if not, are you using the correct printer profiles?

    Monitor calibration is a BIG issue, with most monitors being way too bright, so prints look dark compared to the monitor!

    Another issue is that 'soft proofing' often isn't used, even in LR, where it's very easy, and it doesn't seem to be as easy in C1?
    If you're not using 'soft proofing' I believe that C1 will be referring to the camera profile?

    My understanding is that you need to set up a 'Process' with your printer ICC profile included?
    Also this doesn't appear to have an option to 'show paper white'?
    Putting a 'white border' around the image display also helps. I saw this in a video, and is done in preferences.

    Of course it could simply be that Adobe and C1 do their 'soft proofing' differently?

    IF you do go down the route of installing your printer, there are a lot of things to be aware of!
    The generic Apple drivers you mention are often not as good as the genuine Epson/Canon, etc. drivers, IF you can get them for your printer.

    When I deleted and reinstalled my printer ('Reset' in the System Preferences) I lost all of my printer Presets for that printer. I had previously advised people on how to restore them from a backup, but that didn't work for me!
    So if you have printer presets, write them down before deleting the printer!!

    Anyway good luck, and a few pages that may help.
    Phil

    http://www.colourphil.co.uk/monitor-calibration.shtml

    http://www.colourphil.co.uk/prints-appear-dark.shtml

    http://www.colourphil.co.uk/printing-epson-mac.shtml

    http://www.colourphil.co.uk/printing-canon-mac.shtml
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  • SFA
    Hi Phil,

    I always try to remember that when "replacing" and existing definition of something it is safest to create a new file rather than replace the old directly, if possible. One can always refer back to the old one for information on that basis. Easier than going to find backed up files.

    Of course ... this principle does not always work nor is it always remembered .... ☚ī¸

    I shall look forward to reading your articles.

    The C1 Process tooling is, in my opinion, extremely powerful for producing output but may take a little time of experimentation to appreciate its full potential. That said it sounds like you have a head start in that area of functionality.

    Soft proofing can be turned on and left on if desired and set to reflect the output recipe currently selected (or not) to choice. You can set up separate recipes for every output target (print by size and media profile, screen, files to be sent elsewhere, etc.) in advance. Of quickly alter settings on the fly.

    If printing directly from C1 the setting interface is more "traditional" as you might expect.

    You can also set the general background colour of the viewer area and whether you wish to use a proof margin.

    HTH to give you a fast start in those areas.

    Grant
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="ColourPhil" wrote:


    Hi Robert,

    Grant's suggestion fixed my problem, which was a bizarre 'physical' problem concerning the placement of description text, whereas yours is a colour problem. I 'm a brand new CiPro user (3 days!), so don't know much about it. However I've been using Macs and PS for over 20 years and LR about 5. I'm also a colour management consultant, having a website full of tips for folks about those subjects, who are mainly my remote printer profiling customers. If I settle on C1 I hope to put some tips on my site.

    Are you 'Managing by Printer' or if not, are you using the correct printer profiles?

    Monitor calibration is a BIG issue, with most monitors being way too bright, so prints look dark compared to the monitor!

    Another issue is that 'soft proofing' often isn't used, even in LR, where it's very easy, and it doesn't seem to be as easy in C1?
    If you're not using 'soft proofing' I believe that C1 will be referring to the camera profile?

    My understanding is that you need to set up a 'Process' with your printer ICC profile included?
    Also this doesn't appear to have an option to 'show paper white'?
    Putting a 'white border' around the image display also helps. I saw this in a video, and is done in preferences.

    Of course it could simply be that Adobe and C1 do their 'soft proofing' differently?

    IF you do go down the route of installing your printer, there are a lot of things to be aware of!
    The generic Apple drivers you mention are often not as good as the genuine Epson/Canon, etc. drivers, IF you can get them for your printer.

    When I deleted and reinstalled my printer ('Reset' in the System Preferences) I lost all of my printer Presets for that printer. I had previously advised people on how to restore them from a backup, but that didn't work for me!
    So if you have printer presets, write them down before deleting the printer!!

    Anyway good luck, and a few pages that may help.
    Phil

    http://www.colourphil.co.uk/monitor-calibration.shtml

    http://www.colourphil.co.uk/prints-appear-dark.shtml

    http://www.colourphil.co.uk/printing-epson-mac.shtml

    http://www.colourphil.co.uk/printing-canon-mac.shtml


    Many thanks Phil, I will have a deep look into your links.

    For your information, I have a NEC hardware calibrated, with a 85 cd/m2 luminance, I use soft-proofing in both C1 and PS (and they are identical !!), I let the software manage the printer, with the appropriate printer/ink/paper profile, and so on. I don't think I miss anything in the process, but maybe I am not aware of some step in the process. And I compare my prints with my displayed images using daylight or, most often, a 5000 K source (OttLite).
    I will try to get the genuine driver for my printer and install it properly, with the precautions you suggest.
    And I always have the very good PS printing module to workaround.....
    Cheers,
    Robert
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    ... my second suggestion to most technical problems often involves the well known concept of hitting something with a hammer! Always guaranteed to produce a result - just not necessarily the one being sought.

    😉

    I think the industry term is "Percussive Maintenance" 😄
    0
  • Philip Cruse
    [quote="tenmangu81" wrote:
    [quote="ColourPhil" wrote:


    Hi Robert,


    For your information, I have a NEC hardware calibrated, with a 85 cd/m2 luminance, I use soft-proofing in both C1 and PS (and they are identical !!), I let the software manage the printer, with the appropriate printer/ink/paper profile, and so on. I don't think I miss anything in the process, but maybe I am not aware of some step in the process. And I compare my prints with my displayed images using daylight or, most often, a 5000 K source (OttLite).
    I will try to get the genuine driver for my printer and install it properly, with the precautions you suggest.
    And I always have the very good PS printing module to workaround.....
    Cheers,
    Robert


    Hi Robert,
    Sounds to me like you're doing things right!
    Be very careful with the driver, as may not be your problem!
    I think that the C1 printing is a bit simplistic, but after having done a few, that the 'soft proofing' is reasonable, while not being quite the same as PS or LR.
    Colour management is as much an art as a science!
    The way that individual apps display images is open their own interpretation.
    Adobe's might be different to Phase, and have more options, but who's to say which is right.

    Cheers
    Phil
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  • SFA
    [quote="gusferlizi" wrote:
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    ... my second suggestion to most technical problems often involves the well known concept of hitting something with a hammer! Always guaranteed to produce a result - just not necessarily the one being sought.

    😉

    I think the industry term is "Percussive Maintenance" 😄


    Well, that sounded a bit technical.

    😉
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="ColourPhil" wrote:


    Hi Robert,
    Sounds to me like you're doing things right!
    Be very careful with the driver, as may not be your problem!
    I think that the C1 printing is a bit simplistic, but after having done a few, that the 'soft proofing' is reasonable, while not being quite the same as PS or LR.
    Phil


    Hi Phil,

    Soft-proofing in C1 is perfect, and quite the same as Photoshop in my case. My problem is that when I print from Photoshop, I get a result quite similar to the one I have on my screen, but this is not the case when I print from C1.
    This means that:
    - soft-proofings are good in either C1 or PS
    - printer driver works quite well, as I can get prints quite similar to my soft-proofing
    - very likely, I am faced with a problem of communication between C1 and my printer driver, that I haven't with PS.

    But don't worry, we have spent too much time on that, and the good news is that I can get good prints, even if not from C1...
    Thanks for your time !!
    Cheers,
    Robert
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