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Capture One Pro 8 / Limits.

Permanently deleted user
I can find the specs on capture one 8.

So.. can somebody from Phase One tell me how many images I can have in a catalog. Is the number different if they are referenced files vs embedded files. Hoping I can get rid of light room once and for all.. Aperture too.. and even Media Pro - since that seems to have end-of-life'ed.
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Comments

20 comments

Date Votes
  • Richard_B
    I am hoping someone from CO can comment on this. I imported 64k images from Aperture. When I go to open the catalog it is taking around 90 seconds - little too long for me. Performance is pretty good once the catalog opens.

    I am guessing I could improve the catalog open time by breaking out my photos into smaller catalogs, but I don't want to do this, is the time to open the big catalog can be improved.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    Some data from my own import testing.

    I tried importing 36K images from disk (remote disk) and CO 8 hung at 17K the network was up and the files accessible. I also tried to import a Lightroom catalog, my main working catalog, that has 116K images in it. It has been hung now for several hours at 31,886 (small integer issue maybe?). This catalog was local.

    So CO 8 **seems** to not be very good at large catalogs. When you give it a large catalog it takes a long time to open ready for work, and creating the catalog in the first place is not straight forward.

    With Media Pro AWOL and without the introduction in CO 8 for the ability to search across multiple catalogs, or the ability to aggregate catalogs, we are still left unable to manage large (100K+) catalogs of photographs, without using Adobe Lightroom, which handles that quantity and larger just fine.

    edited * spelling, grammar etc.
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  • NN634835726500244472UL
    [quote="UCS308" wrote:
    Some data from my own import testing.

    I tried importing 36K images from disk (remote disk) and CO 8 hung at 17K the network was up and the files accessible. I also tried to import a Lightroom catalog, my main working catalog, that has 116K images in it. It has been hung now for several hours at 31,886 (small integer issue maybe?). This catalog was local.

    So CO 8 **seems** to not be very good at large catalogs. When you give it a large catalog it takes a long time to open ready for work, and creating the catalog in the first place is not straight forward.

    With Media Pro AWOL and without the introduction in CO 8 for the ability to search across multiple catalogs, or the ability to aggregate catalogs, we are still left unable to manage large (100K+) catalogs of photographs, without using Adobe Lightroom, which handles that quantity and larger just fine.

    edited * spelling, grammar etc.


    Are your images contained in the catalog or is the catalog referencing external folders (e.g. referenced images)? I imported about 50k images from referenced folders (keeping them referenced in CO8). I did this one year at a time going back to 2005 so I basically did about 10 separate imports. They all completed fine and performance is quite good. But to be clear, I didn't try to import from a LR or Aperture library, I just imported the referenced folders.

    I'm just trying to determine if your problem is the "import from LR" functionality as opposed to the catalog itself.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    In both cases I pointed Capture One at the problem and asked it to import.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    Is this an inconvenient question? I know Phase One read these groups, and usually they will comment. I know Phase One had over 800 beta testers. Did any of them do stock? Did any of them have large catalogs? What can we expect? Does Mr Knudsen actually use CO 8 in a meaningful way?

    I have many other questions and many other crashes, but there is little point if I am using the software outside of the known parameters.
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  • Drew Altdo
    Not inconvenient, it's simply been answered on the forum before.
    Limits are related to your system resources and workflow. If you want specific numbers from us, provide specifics of your system and workflow.

    Please search the forum and you'll find a few other reply's giving more details based on customers details.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    Drew,

    Can you point me to a posting that gives limits? I can find anecdotal evidence. I am trying to work out what has been tested?

    I listed two examples above. Both CO 8 both resulted in CO 8 crashing. What more would you like to know? Machine spec? 12TB of raid 6 storage hanging off an ATO card in a mac pro? 16GB of ram. MacBook Pro 16gb of Ram 512gb of disk with 200GB free. Capture One Pro took 3gb of real ram in the first example and 5.12gb in the second. Both times there was ample free ( real ram) for the app to continue.

    I think this is important.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    Nothing?
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  • NNN635003982619074238
    What were you expecting? He's basically a public relations flack and will not give any hard numbers as whatever number he gives might cast a negative light on their product. Not surprising as he is doing his job well.

    [quote="UCS308" wrote:
    Nothing?
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  • SFA
    [quote="UCS308" wrote:
    Drew,

    Can you point me to a posting that gives limits? I can find anecdotal evidence. I am trying to work out what has been tested?

    I listed two examples above. Both CO 8 both resulted in CO 8 crashing. What more would you like to know? Machine spec? 12TB of raid 6 storage hanging off an ATO card in a mac pro? 16GB of ram. MacBook Pro 16gb of Ram 512gb of disk with 200GB free. Capture One Pro took 3gb of real ram in the first example and 5.12gb in the second. Both times there was ample free ( real ram) for the app to continue.

    I think this is important.


    Have you raised a Support Case?

    That way you should get personal attention based on an analysis of your system and files in some depth.

    In your situation it seems to me that anything else is just guesswork and likely to lead to to ever greater frustration.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    I don't think so. I think Drew is a technical guy..


    [quote="NNN635003982619074238" wrote:
    What were you expecting? He's basically a public relations flack and will not give any hard numbers as whatever number he gives might cast a negative light on their product. Not surprising as he is doing his job well.

    [quote="UCS308" wrote:
    Nothing?
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  • Permanently deleted user
    I have learned through conditioning that PhaseOne does not like support cases. Either they respond with its Apple's fault. Its your Fault or it's OpenCL's fault. I figure a question on importing a large library must be one they have an answer to. Especially as they seem to be going after Lightroom and Aperture business. But it appears not with C1Pro 8.

    I come here in the hope I will get answers from the community. And since Drew said it had been answered before I thought he might point me to that answer. I don't believe it has. I think he misspoke but I would love to be proved wrong with a link.

    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    [quote="UCS308" wrote:
    Drew,

    Can you point me to a posting that gives limits? I can find anecdotal evidence. I am trying to work out what has been tested?

    I listed two examples above. Both CO 8 both resulted in CO 8 crashing. What more would you like to know? Machine spec? 12TB of raid 6 storage hanging off an ATO card in a mac pro? 16GB of ram. MacBook Pro 16gb of Ram 512gb of disk with 200GB free. Capture One Pro took 3gb of real ram in the first example and 5.12gb in the second. Both times there was ample free ( real ram) for the app to continue.

    I think this is important.


    Have you raised a Support Case?

    That way you should get personal attention based on an analysis of your system and files in some depth.

    In your situation it seems to me that anything else is just guesswork and likely to lead to to ever greater frustration.
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  • mli20
    UCS308:

    Assuming you are running CaptureOne and Lightroom on the same machine (or on similar specced machines) there's no reason to look to machine specs to explain the poorer performance of CaptureOne. Both use SQLite as the underlying database management system, and SQLite will readily handle number of records far exceeding the +100k you mention.

    If software stops responding ("hangs") it's usually because software mishandles the available system resources like memory. A common problem is termed "memory leak"; with each iteration/software loop (e.g. the import of an image) doesn't free used memory, but keeps its lock on it. With a sufficient number of iterations your machine will inevitably run out of memory at some point and stop responding.

    My thoughts on reading this thread.

    Cheers,
    Mogens
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  • Permanently deleted user
    I checked the memory and the task was using a lot, but there was more to be had. I find it interesting that it stopped around 32k. Seems like somebody is overflowing something.

    Does CaptureOne use SQL Lite? I have just responded to another thread saying I thought they used the filesystem and not a database. If they use SQLLite I will be totally blown away as there is no excuse for a number of "features".

    By the way I have now tried importing my lightroom catalog with well over 100K images in it AND building a CO8 catalog from disk. CO8 croaked on both. I built a MediaPro catalog just to see how that would handle it and it took about 10 minutes. Of course it is still building previews but that is fine. Media Pro has other stability issues though so I think I will have to stick with Lightroom..


    [quote="mli20" wrote:
    UCS308:

    Assuming you are running CaptureOne and Lightroom on the same machine (or on similar specced machines) there's no reason to look to machine specs to explain the poorer performance of CaptureOne. Both use SQLite as the underlying database management system, and SQLite will readily handle number of records far exceeding the +100k you mention.

    If software stops responding ("hangs") it's usually because software mishandles the available system resources like memory. A common problem is termed "memory leak"; with each iteration/software loop (e.g. the import of an image) doesn't free used memory, but keeps its lock on it. With a sufficient number of iterations your machine will inevitably run out of memory at some point and stop responding.

    My thoughts on reading this thread.

    Cheers,
    Mogens
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  • Grant Hodgeon
    I too have had many issues with the lack of clarity/good honest numbers from the people at Phase One.

    It's sad because I think it's a very important topic and something that I believe is (personally) sliding a pretty negative light on the company and leaving me with no choice but to fumble blindly into the limits of the software only to be greeted with little to no information and no feeling of a voice heard...

    It's upsetting because we ARE the people using this software to its maximum capacity, our voices should be heard and met with candor and a mutual respect - not a snarky reply that this has been discussed before and then silence from there on.

    It should be evident with the same array of questions cropping up weekly -- that some form of change has to be made. Hell, I'll drop an extra $10 a month if you want to hire some kid to spend his waking hours on the forum talking the talk with us.

    At the end of the day, we're customers. You can treat us however you like and you can show us the door and the world of non-existent competitors in this market. But it sucks to feel stuck with this software as opposed to empowered by it.
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  • mli20
    Judging from the number of views of this thread the subject seem to be of quite some interest. Consequently, although I'm working on a Windows machine I trust the results of a little experiment I did will be of interest here, or maybe that a Mac user will replicate.

    I simply opened C18, Adobe Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop, each set up to edit an image, then looked to the memory allocated to each. This is what I saw:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/r58y8ljh84m7zij/C1PMemoryComparison.PNG?dl=1

    I have on occasions seen C18 having more than 6GB of memory allocated to it.

    Note that each program is sitting idle. "Hukommelse" is danish for memory.

    There might be some relation to doing an "Advanced Search" on keywords,. That may see my machine trundling along with considerable CPU-usage for some 10-15 minutes. I believe these are very strange numbers indeed.

    Cheers,
    Mogens
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  • paintbox
    I found this thread via Google search.

    Count me as one having issues with catalogs.

    Specs: Mac Pro 2012
    Six core 3.33Ghz processor
    24Gb ram
    512GB Samsung Pro SSD plugged into the PCI Express slot.
    The C1 catalog resides on the SSD while the original files reside on an internal HDD.

    38,000 images amounting to about 500gb.
    Catalog size is about 54gb.

    Now I do have a support case open.
    So far we haven't resolved the problem but i'm hopeful.

    As far as what I have learned, it seems that C1 does choke down as the catalog grows.
    I was keeping track of import times and after about 6000 images things start to slow down.
    After 13,000, it takes about 1.5 seconds per image.
    At 17,000 it takes 3.5 seconds per image
    At 18,412 it takes 4.5 seconds per image
    At 23,315 it takes 10.27 per image. At this point I just gave up.

    I'm now in the middle of importing a LR catalog. Things seem to be slightly better, but after 28 hrs I still have about 8000 more pics to import.

    As far as LR goes, I had both the catalog AND images on an HDD. It was still much faster than C1.
    When I moved the LR catalog to the SSD and left the originals on the HDD, LR sped up even more.

    It is true that both LR and C1 use Sqlite. I used text editor to open both catalogs and found that to be true.

    I promise,, if a solution is found, i'll be happy share the how's and why's.

    In the meantime, if anyone has any ideas feel free to email me at: paintbox@bellsouth.net
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  • paintbox
    Just moving this one to the top of the reading list so that I may share my support case results.

    Nothing.

    They will look into it further, but as far as my particular support case is concerned, well, they say "finished"

    There still is an issue with the catalog, and there is an issue with the Filter tool.

    I'd say far from finished.
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  • mli20
    Finished can mean any number of things, but in this case it obviously doesn't mean resolved. How can tech support just let it slide?

    Cheers,
    Mogens

    Edit: I believe I need to explain in more detail what is my concern here: It's abour learning from past experiences. If "finished" status can mean anything between "unresolved, but we have exhausted our possibilities" to "resolved, also to the users satisfaction", the finished status becomes meaningless, nothing can be learnt from it. it's about excluding oneself from inspiring confidence.

    Happy new year!
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  • paintbox
    Well, what I have resolved to do is this.

    I have gone through the trouble of renaming all of my originals, separating them into smaller folders, and creating a brand new C1 catalog. This was done to correct the C1 catalog performance issues.

    In doing so, I destroyed my current Lightroom Catalog.

    Now that I know for a fact that the catalog issues cannot be resolved using these methods, I have deleted the catalog, found my backup of the original file structure, reconnected it to my Lightroom catalog and will now continue using Lightroom as my main catalog.

    Capture One will now go to doing what it does best, just being a RAW editor.
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