Why do both aRGB ICC's in Process Recipe seem flaky?
I installed a fresh aRGB ICC from Adobe which was installed in Windows Vista 32.
My problem, however, remains -- ONE or BOTH of the two aRGB ICC's in the Process Recipe MAY BE flaky -- I have tried using the top one and processed the same exact image in C1 from raw to JPG in PS CS5 and found that perhaps 2 out of 8 identical images actually were in the aRGB color space with the others in sRGB according to Qimage, then I tried the second aRGB ICC in the Process Recipe and got the same exact results.
At this point, I am unsure of BOTH of the aRGB ICC's -- they surely are not BOTH flaky. I uninstalled Capture One 6 Pro (6.3.2) and tried an older version -- no change, and then reinstalled the latest version and again, no change.
BUT -- consider that PS CS5 is set to let me know if the color space is different than the aRGB that it defaults to and it did NOT throw up a flag one time with any of the 16 images mentioned above -- therefore, PS is not detecting sRGB color spaces.
It is Qimage that is detecting the sRGB JPG's AND I can even distinguish which ones are aRGB when looking at the thumbnails. Qimage has been a tried and tested printing program for years.
Is there another test that I can give these JPG's to determine if they are aRGB or sRGB in addition to PS and Qimage.
BTW -- one of the listed profiles in the Process Recipe is "Adobe RGB (1998) D65 WP 2.2 Gamma" and it is always dead on accurate and always shows aRGB whether in Qimage or PS [I suspect it is the aRGB color space from my calibrated monitor] BUT it is not my monitor's ICC profile since it does have its own ICC profile listing the date of calibration, model of the monitor, etc.]
Yep -- strange situation, but a very frustrating one
Suggestions/opinions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
MikeSp
My problem, however, remains -- ONE or BOTH of the two aRGB ICC's in the Process Recipe MAY BE flaky -- I have tried using the top one and processed the same exact image in C1 from raw to JPG in PS CS5 and found that perhaps 2 out of 8 identical images actually were in the aRGB color space with the others in sRGB according to Qimage, then I tried the second aRGB ICC in the Process Recipe and got the same exact results.
At this point, I am unsure of BOTH of the aRGB ICC's -- they surely are not BOTH flaky. I uninstalled Capture One 6 Pro (6.3.2) and tried an older version -- no change, and then reinstalled the latest version and again, no change.
BUT -- consider that PS CS5 is set to let me know if the color space is different than the aRGB that it defaults to and it did NOT throw up a flag one time with any of the 16 images mentioned above -- therefore, PS is not detecting sRGB color spaces.
It is Qimage that is detecting the sRGB JPG's AND I can even distinguish which ones are aRGB when looking at the thumbnails. Qimage has been a tried and tested printing program for years.
Is there another test that I can give these JPG's to determine if they are aRGB or sRGB in addition to PS and Qimage.
BTW -- one of the listed profiles in the Process Recipe is "Adobe RGB (1998) D65 WP 2.2 Gamma" and it is always dead on accurate and always shows aRGB whether in Qimage or PS [I suspect it is the aRGB color space from my calibrated monitor] BUT it is not my monitor's ICC profile since it does have its own ICC profile listing the date of calibration, model of the monitor, etc.]
Yep -- strange situation, but a very frustrating one
Suggestions/opinions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
MikeSp
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I recall that there was a problem with Qimage and multiple placements of color space in a files info causing similar problem to yours.
Also remember something about Adobe products being able to work around it. ( Or caused it? ) I thought that Mike had fixed it not that long ago.
Might try a search over at mikes forum.
http://ddisoftware.com/tech/index.php0 -
Morning, Mike, [quote="MikeSp" wrote:
BTW -- one of the listed profiles in the Process Recipe is "Adobe RGB (1998) D65 WP 2.2 Gamma" and it is always dead on accurate and always shows aRGB whether in Qimage or PS [I suspect it is the aRGB color space from my calibrated monitor] BUT it is not my monitor's ICC profile since it does have its own ICC profile listing the date of calibration, model of the monitor, etc.]
Regarding that profile: Profile creation software can add information to the profile’s metadata block, for description. At least here on Mac, Capture One seems to shows this “internal†naming in the Process Recipe tab rather than the profile’s file name. So I guess the profile is a genuine color space, not a device profile, with the native Adobe RGB parameters added to its title (not file name).
If this profile works, you’ve got a “good†profile apparently and can stop wondering about the bad ones.
ddisoftware.com is offline for me right now, but I remember issues with Qimage’s color management support in conjunction with Windows 7. If I remember it right, back in 2010 ddisofware suggested to disable some setting inside the Win7 color management module. I can’t check whether this issue has been remedied by now, perhaps you are on a mailing list or the like and can find out more.
As to why some profiles seem to produce garbage in your case, here’s a possible explanation.
ICC profiles come in different versions and flavours. My Adobe RGB profiles are ICCv2, which is more universally accepted by different applications. It is possible that your “wonky†profiles are either ICCv4, or LUT profiles, or both. By now, most color management-aware applications should be able to deal with these flavours of ICC (after all, they have been out and about for nigh 20 years), but e.g. the color management module used in Firefox, qcms, still doesn’t support ICCv4. In the case of Firefox, it falls back to an assumed sRGB media color space when encountering media tagged with an unsupported profile. I guess other software acts similarly.
I don’t know whether Capture One for Windows uses Microsoft’s CMM, own code, or a third-party CMM. But this might be an interesting thing to check should you be able to get different ICC versions of the color spaces you need.
Perhaps PhaseOne can tell us more about CaptureOne’s use of a color management module, and what ICC versions it properly supports.
Cheers,
-Sascha0 -
One thing I found during my experimentation as to WHY Qimage will read 8 identical raw conversions (using C1 6.3.2 Pro) of the same exact file sent to PS CS5 that defaults to aRGB with ~6 of the resulting JPG's being in the sRGB color space and ~2 of them in the desired aRGB color space -- IF I use Adobe Capture Raw to convert my raw images, THEN Qimage will read all 8 of them as being in the aRGB color space.
It does not matter which one of the two aRGB ICC's listed in the Process Recipe I use, the results are the same -- Qimage will read most of them as being in the sRGB color space AND I can look at the thumbnails in Qimage and it is easy to distinguish those images with the sRGB color space from those with the aRGB color space.
I even replaced the aRGB (1998) ICC in Windows Vista 32 by downloading a new copy from Adobe -- made no difference.
PS CS5 is set to notify me of a color space mismatch -- but for those ~6 out of 8 images of the same exact file that are in sRGB, PS does not pop up with a notification as it does if I purposely set the color space in C1 to sRGB for a test image.
Is there any way to delete the two aRGB ICC's that show up in the Process Recipe in C1 and replace them with an aRGB ICC that is known to be working right?
Years ago as a digital darkroom noob, I spent hundreds of hours getting my workflow to work precisely the way I wanted it to -- to accomplish the workflow results I wanted, I bought a calibrated monitor, used C1 for raw conversion, Photoshop for tidying up images and Qimage Pro for printing (and was careful to use the correct printer/paper ICC) and assumed it to be correctly working until a couple of weeks ago and now I am back to pulling my hair out (not much left to pull out at my age).
Where do I go from here to get my workflow back to the correct color -- it is a royal PITA to print every image in PS CS5 -- Qimage had always been accurate and soooooo convenient.
Thoughts/Suggestions as to where the issue really is and how to solve it??
HELP 😕
Thanks,
MikeSp0 -
As I continued to research this issue of saving JPG's from Photoshop CS5 in the aRGB color space and having nearly all of them show up incorrectly as sRGB, I think I FINALLY ran onto the answer -- a Photoshop CS5 (12.0.4) JPEG corruption bug as described here:
http://ddisoftware.com/tech/qimage-ulti ... ption-bug/
GRRRRRRRRRRR -- apparently it is Adobe's problem 😡
MikeSp0 -
I deactivated my updated Photoshop, uninstalled it and then reinstalled 12.0 x32 from the installation disk and the issue with aRGB files being saved as sRGB disappeared.
MikeSp0 -
Thanks MikeSp for the feedback. Helpful for others. 0
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