Bad image quality
Hi..
I had Canon systems before and was very happy with CO's quality. Recently I got tired of Canon in a lot of ways so I swapped to Nikon and never gonna look back. I have a question tho.. Why is quality on Nikon D750 worse than Canon 5D Mk III in CaptureOne? And I don't mean just by a little bit. I'm looking at plugged shadow areas, abrubt gradients. Halos on gradients, etc.
Watching full jpeg render, side by side, Capture NX, Lightroom and CaptureOne9. Eizo monitor, calibrated.
Here is sample images, opened in PS, edited, exported as full JPEG. What you guys think? I don't want to put Lightroom images in here risking breaking a lot of rules and hurting someones feelings, but I'll put the manufacturers slow as hell RAW-processor along with CO. In my tests, Lightroom produced somewhat better shadow details than CO and a lot better gradients, downside was bad colors like NX and 0.2EV darker image by baseline.
http://imgur.com/xSChk8P
Putting sharpness aside; So, when it comes down to color (I'm a color lover), CO seem to have most consistent score of these two programs. But we all know, manipulating a color is like a breathe in the wind these days..Worse problem is with the gradients and smooth details. It doesn't matter how much I try, I will never get the fine gradients or smooth details I see in Capture NX with Capture One. I'm now seeing this on many of my other images containing smooth transitions, gradients, shadow details, etc. Is there a fix for this or what? Fixing color and sharpness is easy as hell, this problem affects image quality overall no matter how hard I try.
I hope the image I uploaded shows the issue I'm having. And again, sorry for rusty English.
Regards,
Aleksander
I had Canon systems before and was very happy with CO's quality. Recently I got tired of Canon in a lot of ways so I swapped to Nikon and never gonna look back. I have a question tho.. Why is quality on Nikon D750 worse than Canon 5D Mk III in CaptureOne? And I don't mean just by a little bit. I'm looking at plugged shadow areas, abrubt gradients. Halos on gradients, etc.
Watching full jpeg render, side by side, Capture NX, Lightroom and CaptureOne9. Eizo monitor, calibrated.
Here is sample images, opened in PS, edited, exported as full JPEG. What you guys think? I don't want to put Lightroom images in here risking breaking a lot of rules and hurting someones feelings, but I'll put the manufacturers slow as hell RAW-processor along with CO. In my tests, Lightroom produced somewhat better shadow details than CO and a lot better gradients, downside was bad colors like NX and 0.2EV darker image by baseline.
http://imgur.com/xSChk8P
Putting sharpness aside; So, when it comes down to color (I'm a color lover), CO seem to have most consistent score of these two programs. But we all know, manipulating a color is like a breathe in the wind these days..Worse problem is with the gradients and smooth details. It doesn't matter how much I try, I will never get the fine gradients or smooth details I see in Capture NX with Capture One. I'm now seeing this on many of my other images containing smooth transitions, gradients, shadow details, etc. Is there a fix for this or what? Fixing color and sharpness is easy as hell, this problem affects image quality overall no matter how hard I try.
I hope the image I uploaded shows the issue I'm having. And again, sorry for rusty English.
Regards,
Aleksander
0
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I think IMGUR botch a bit of the image quality, but, I can notice a bit of difference even on the botched version.
I kinda notice these failed gradients a lot now, IDK if its only me or the program.
http://imgur.com/kx2BWUt
EDIT::::
Changing to D700 makes color clip less, haven't checked all gradients but so far promising. I think we have a bad profile going on guys.0 -
yes,, 😉 you will not get for Nikon NEF RAW files a 100% good RAW readers als in Nikon CAPTURE NX-D .
Because Nikon own Now how, they read there files better, just the same like C1 and PhaseOne backs cameras.
but C1 still bee for me better than authors vendors 😄
my Tipp, tray Silkypix develop Studio 7 demo, they work with nikon together and build for them this freeware NX-D
but its complicated to use and they don't have a DAM or a good Image Browser build inside 😡
I still use C1 8 and want soon to upgrade to C1 9 😉0 -
[quote="NN634679457851155635UL" wrote:
Recently I got tired of Canon in a lot of ways so I swapped to Nikon and never gonna look back
You could have asked your question without the Nikon fanboiism - what does this have to do with your problem?0 -
[quote="NN634679457851155635UL" wrote:
Hi..
Why is quality on Nikon D750 worse than Canon 5D Mk III in CaptureOne?
Don't blame Capture One, that's just how it is .... 😊
But, i agree that Capture One gives a rough and "painterly" look compared to other raw converters, but many people actually prefer that. I turn clarity and saturation down to neutralize a little...0 -
[quote="j thorsen" wrote:
[quote="NN634679457851155635UL" wrote:
Hi..
Why is quality on Nikon D750 worse than Canon 5D Mk III in CaptureOne?
Don't blame Capture One, that's just how it is .... 😊
But, i agree that Capture One gives a rough and "painterly" look compared to other raw converters, but many people actually prefer that. I turn clarity and saturation down to neutralize a little...
Has your noise reduction settings been changed from the default values?0 -
[quote="Wesley" wrote:
[quote="j thorsen" wrote:
[quote="NN634679457851155635UL" wrote:
Hi..
Why is quality on Nikon D750 worse than Canon 5D Mk III in CaptureOne?
Don't blame Capture One, that's just how it is .... 😊
But, i agree that Capture One gives a rough and "painterly" look compared to other raw converters, but many people actually prefer that. I turn clarity and saturation down to neutralize a little...
Has your noise reduction settings been changed from the default values?
On low iso image files i find the "default 50" a little to aggressive, 20-30 on all 3 sliders gives the best balance between details and noise.
I use Canon cameras, i can not say if it is the same with Nikon image files.0 -
deactivate the Aktive Daylight in the Camera ❗️ 0 -
[quote="j thorsen" wrote:
On low iso image files i find the "default 50" a little to aggressive, 20-30 on all 3 sliders gives the best balance between details and noise.
Then save this as defaults for your camera (three dots icon to the top-right of the noise reduction tool): problem solved. 😊0 -
[quote="CAPTURE NIKON D700" wrote:
my Tipp, tray Silkypix develop Studio 7 demo, they work with nikon together and build for them this freeware NX-D
but its complicated to use and they don't have a DAM or a good Image Browser build inside 😡
I still use C1 8 and want soon to upgrade to C1 9 😉
Thats true, but comparing different Nikon RAW and different Canon RAW files in C1 gives very different gradients. The worse I've seen is from D750 on C1, along with some clipping in colors. It DOES get better with colors and quality if i use D700 profile on my D750 files.
I know man, this is why I love systems like C1 and LR because of the cataloging. I will try to download and use that version to see if there is any difference, I just hope Phase One check their current D750 profile and correct it if its "bad".[quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:
You could have asked your question without the Nikon fanboiism - what does this have to do with your problem?
1+1 = I used Capture One before swapping and had no problems with these gradients and image problems I see now. On other hand, I've had problems with Canon and Canon's system years after year but it has nothing to do with this as you say. I should maybe have toned it down and rephrased it, so I'm sorry if I stepped on some toes. Canons RAW files was out of the world fantastic in C1, not same deal with D750. Using another Nikon profile is actually better, maybe even a Canon profile ;D[quote="j thorsen" wrote:
Don't blame Capture One, that's just how it is .... 😊
But, i agree that Capture One gives a rough and "painterly" look compared to other raw converters, but many people actually prefer that. I turn clarity and saturation down to neutralize a little...
Well, I'm not used to it. In fact I used CO with Canon while hoping for Phase One to add LAB-color readouts, but I had amazing results with Canon RAW. I just hope I found a bad profile they can correct or I have to rethink what Im gonna use for raw processor. I'll try this, thanks. The shadow details seem too plugged but I'll give it a shot! 😊[quote="Wesley" wrote:
Has your noise reduction settings been changed from the default values?
No, but you think that will plug the shadow details and make these "grooves" in the gradients? I'll give that a try too, but it looks more like a strange posterization issue sometime.[quote="j thorsen" wrote:
On low iso image files i find the "default 50" a little to aggressive, 20-30 on all 3 sliders gives the best balance between details and noise.
I use Canon cameras, i can not say if it is the same with Nikon image files.
Thanks for the tip.[quote="CAPTURE NIKON D700" wrote:
deactivate the Aktive Daylight in the Camera ❗️
This one sounds interesting, Active Daylight? Where? Your mean like a dynamic range expansion? My camera is not in English language, thanks
Can you guys with the D750 and your "painterly" look post some examples, both from LR and C1? I have a D750 and I'm quite happy with the image quality. It's why I switched from LR as I felt like LR's results were rather dull in comparison. 0 -
[quote="dredlew" wrote:
Can you guys with the D750 and your "painterly" look post some examples, both from LR and C1? I have a D750 and I'm quite happy with the image quality. It's why I switched from LR as I felt like LR's results were rather dull in comparison.
I have a good example. I did a shoot of a lady at night and the differences were harsh with C1 regarding color, gradients. Though C1 works well on other shoots.
1. Notice also another problem with C1 the preview image is blurry. In LR is it clear at any size.
2. In LR I use Camera Portrait which looks great. LR Standard which is similar to Capture One but nowhere near as harsh.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4n0yr1jnz44m ... fmJCa?dl=00 -
I uploaded more examples. As a starting point. LR looks better on skin tones. To get the same look I have to pull down the contrast in C1 and saturation slightly and its still not great on skin tone. 0 -
Hello,
did you try to change the proof profile ?
View -> Proof profile.
Regards0 -
Keano12, looks like the C1 versions are quite oversaturated. Did you apply any adjustments, like "Saturation" or a "Curve" or "ICC Profile" from the "Base Characteristics" tool? My images don't look as oversaturated SOOC as in your examples. Maybe a few things to check;
Under the "Base Characteristics", for images with people in it, I generally choose the "Portrait" curve due to less contrast. Anything else I usually leave on Auto. The default camera profile (Adobe Standard) in LR is a lot more flat than C1's. I personally prefer C1's more vivid rendering. If you prefer a similar starting point as LR, select the ICC Profile "DNG file neutral" under Adobe, that should get you close to that Adobe Standard look.
As far as "Saturation" goes, you have to be more careful in C1 than LR. LR has a "smart" saturation algorithm that increases intensity but avoids skin tones. This does not work as well in C1, so if you need to increase saturation, do it selectively through the "Color Editor" or masks.0 -
[quote="dredlew" wrote:
Under the "Base Characteristics", for images with people in it, I generally choose the "Portrait" curve due to less contrast. Anything else I usually leave on Auto.
What "Portrait" curve? The choices I see are Auto, Film Extra Shadow, Film High Contrast, Film Standard, and Linear Response.
Ian0 -
[quote="Ian3" wrote:
[quote="dredlew" wrote:
Under the "Base Characteristics", for images with people in it, I generally choose the "Portrait" curve due to less contrast. Anything else I usually leave on Auto.
What "Portrait" curve? The choices I see are Auto, Film Extra Shadow, Film High Contrast, Film Standard, and Linear Response.
Hmm, that's odd. These are my choices when selecting the D750 profile0 -
[quote="dredlew" wrote:
[quote="Ian3" wrote:
[quote="dredlew" wrote:
Under the "Base Characteristics", for images with people in it, I generally choose the "Portrait" curve due to less contrast. Anything else I usually leave on Auto.
What "Portrait" curve? The choices I see are Auto, Film Extra Shadow, Film High Contrast, Film Standard, and Linear Response.
Hmm, that's odd. These are my choices when selecting the D750 profile
It is odd. I have a D7200, but if I change the profile to D750, I still don't get the Portrait option. (And my installation of C1 is right up to date, on 9.2.)
Ian0 -
I also do not see a Portrait option when I select the D750 profile on v9.2
However, the folder "C:\Program Files\Phase One\Capture One 9\Film Curves" contains the following D750 files:
NikonD750-Auto.fcrv
NikonD750-Film Extra Shadow.fcrv
NikonD750-Film High Contrast.fcrv
NikonD750-Film Standard.fcrv
NikonD750-Linear Response.fcrv
NikonD750-Portrait.fcrv
Note, there is a Portrait file (which is also present for a number of other Nikon, Mamiya and Leaf camera models).
I wonder what has to be configured for CO to show the Portrait option?
Richard0 -
[quote="dredlew" wrote:
Interesting, I couldn't find any particular setting in C1 for that either. I was still on 9.1.1 but in testing out 9.2, I still see that option. Could it be related to the actual file that triggers this? Uploaded a test file here:
That does appear to be the case. I downloaded your test file and imported it into CO and the "Portrait" film curve is available for that image.
Richard0 -
[quote="RichardT" wrote:
I also do not see a Portrait option when I select the D750 profile on v9.2
However, the folder "C:\Program Files\Phase One\Capture One 9\Film Curves" contains the following D750 files:
NikonD750-Auto.fcrv
NikonD750-Film Extra Shadow.fcrv
NikonD750-Film High Contrast.fcrv
NikonD750-Film Standard.fcrv
NikonD750-Linear Response.fcrv
NikonD750-Portrait.fcrv
Note, there is a Portrait file (which is also present for a number of other Nikon, Mamiya and Leaf camera models).
I wonder what has to be configured for CO to show the Portrait option?
Richard
FYI to Mac Users: You should find the film curves listed within the C1 application by following this link from PhaseOne: - Its still good on C1 9.2.
/Applications/Capture One 9.app/Contents/Frameworks/AppCore.framework/Versions/A/Resources/Film Curves
There's also this link: & the link under 'More Help' allows you to download 23 basic presets ( whether they 'work' or not, I do not know as the article is 2 years old ).
cheers!
dan0 -
[quote="RichardT" wrote:
I also do not see a Portrait option when I select the D750 profile on v9.2
However, the folder "C:\Program Files\Phase One\Capture One 9\Film Curves" contains the following D750 files:
NikonD750-Auto.fcrv
NikonD750-Film Extra Shadow.fcrv
NikonD750-Film High Contrast.fcrv
NikonD750-Film Standard.fcrv
NikonD750-Linear Response.fcrv
NikonD750-Portrait.fcrv
Note, there is a Portrait file (which is also present for a number of other Nikon, Mamiya and Leaf camera models).
I wonder what has to be configured for CO to show the Portrait option?
Richard
They seem to provide a portrait curve for all the Nikon full-frame models, but not for any of the cropped sensor models.
Ian0 -
[quote="RichardT" wrote:
[quote="dredlew" wrote:
Interesting, I couldn't find any particular setting in C1 for that either. I was still on 9.1.1 but in testing out 9.2, I still see that option. Could it be related to the actual file that triggers this? Uploaded a test file here:
That does appear to be the case. I downloaded your test file and imported it into CO and the "Portrait" film curve is available for that image.
If it works with my file, then it's likely related to the firmware installed on the camera. On my D750, I have;
C 1.02
L 2.0050
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