Mac OS 10.14 Mojave deprecating Open CL
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I hope that Phase One will rewrite their code to support Metal - and I wouldn't mind paying for the update more. Adobe is bringing their apps to Mac App Store which means that they will be going Metal.
I for one would love to see C1 on Metal so my eGPU would properly work (which it doesn't at present time) on macOS, zero problem on Windows 10 😕0 -
AFAIK, Metal was already developed in Sierra and High Sierra, am I right ? It's not only Mojave.
Anyway, the next major update of C1 is not for tomorrow, and the final release of Mojave is planned for october or so...
Wait and see.0 -
And probably CO12 will be sometime over Christmas (I am just assuming based on previous releases) so if CO team is working on the new software, I hope they work on Metal as well, because for sure CO13 set in Christmas 2019 will have to have Metal implemented. 0 -
This all depends on what Apple means by "deprecated." Usually it indicates an obsolete, but functioning code. If so, if the the Open CL code is present although deprecated in Mojave, Capture One could still use it as it does now in MacOS with Metal. The question is, is Apple leaving the code available, but deprecated, or is it removing the deprecated code altogether from the next version of MacOS. 0 -
That comment summarizes my concern about Apple and "deprecation". They've "deprecated" a lot of capabilities and I don't recall them ever saying just what that meant. I also use FileMaker Pro, from an Apple subsidiary, and they are the same way: "deprecating" capabilities several versions back, but all of that still works fine.
Similarly, 10.13 was announced as being the last macOS to fully support 32-bit functionality, but Apple's not told us just what's going to be lost in 10.14 (and I assume that it will be dropped completely in 10.15).
This is hard on users, and I'll bet it's especially hard on developers, as the referenced thread suggests. I wish Apple was more disclosing sometimes...
I'm sure Phase One is paying close attention to what Apple's actually doing and will respond accordingly. But given 10.14's expected release date and reasonable P1 development cycles (I assume that the next version of C1 is already well along), I'd be surprised if C1 12 moved completely from OpenCL to Metal.
What may be more interesting to us users is what hardware Apple's going to support when they totally leave OpenCL. I'll bet that a lot of the machines we're now using get left behind...0 -
I guess what that means is, macOS (whatever version it is) wont be optimized for OpenCL and OpenGL but will be optimized around Metal, meaning that the softwares which use OpenCL and OpenGL wont be getting great performance. Giving the fact that Mojave is supported back to 2010/2011 MacPros with a Metal compatible Mac, I hope and assume we can use our current Macs for some time.
What I am worrying though is, I hope we wont stuck in the loop of "your Mac is not powerful enough for C1" comments only because C1 is not optimized for Metal. However I can guess the nightmares of C1 team as they need to re-write the code for their apps now.0 -
[quote="fatihayoglu" wrote:
However I can guess the nightmares of C1 team as they need to re-write the code for their apps now.
Yes. And not only Capture One team !!0 -
[quote="fatihayoglu" wrote:
What I am worrying though is, I hope we wont stuck in the loop of "your Mac is not powerful enough for C1" comments only because C1 is not optimized for Metal. However I can guess the nightmares of C1 team as they need to re-write the code for their apps now.
They better hurry if version 12 is scheduled for this year 😂0 -
[quote="NN635680879799322049UL" wrote:
The question is, is Apple leaving the code available, but deprecated, or is it removing the deprecated code altogether from the next version of MacOS.
All Apple seems to care about atm is icons and animogis. They already screwed up their hardware. They might as well screw up their software and take 3rd parties with it.0 -
Going back to Windows 😄 ? 0 -
It's a non-issue so far: "Apps built using OpenGL or OpenCL will continue to run in MacOS 10.14". 0 -
[quote="John Doe" wrote:
It's a non-issue so far: "Apps built using OpenGL or OpenCL will continue to run in MacOS 10.14".
John, we all know that. We also know 32bit apps are still working but they are not getting full benefit of the system. So apps using OpenGL and OpenCL will run but not get the full benefit and speed of the system, which put the heavy resource depending apps like CO into risk.
I guess the crowd in here is just hoping PO team will act on this issue quickly before it is too late.0 -
[quote="fatihayoglu" wrote:
We also know 32bit apps are still working but they are not getting full benefit of the system.
I was not aware of that. In what way exactly do they "not get full benefit of the system"?0 -
[quote="John Doe" wrote:
[quote="fatihayoglu" wrote:
We also know 32bit apps are still working but they are not getting full benefit of the system.
I was not aware of that. In what way exactly do they "not get full benefit of the system"?
Basically they can't use 64bit architecture of the OS and hardware. Also 32bit apps can't use more than 4GB of RAM. For small apps, it is not so crucial and performance differences can't be observed but heavy apps like CO, PS, LR will act differently. They will run, but just slower and less optimized.0 -
OK, they'll just behave like they're supposed to, then. I thought you meant there were special limitations imposed to 32 bit apps in High Sierra and following versions... 0 -
[quote="John Doe" wrote:
OK, they'll just behave like they're supposed to, then. I thought you meant there were special limitations imposed to 32 bit apps in High Sierra and following versions...
Sorry, bad wording on my side then. Yes they behave as they supposed to do, small less resources dependent apps like textedit, ColorSync, etc no issue. Big heavy apps, issue 😊0 -
[quote="John Doe" wrote:
[quote="fatihayoglu" wrote:
We also know 32bit apps are still working but they are not getting full benefit of the system.
I was not aware of that. In what way exactly do they "not get full benefit of the system"?
I find this comment very worrying indeed. It makes me wonder if Phase One even subscribes to the Apple Developer Program.0 -
[quote="Michael Naylor" wrote:
[quote="John Doe" wrote:
[quote="fatihayoglu" wrote:
We also know 32bit apps are still working but they are not getting full benefit of the system.
I was not aware of that. In what way exactly do they "not get full benefit of the system"?
I find this comment very worrying indeed. It makes me wonder if Phase One even subscribes to the Apple Developer Program.
You might think, wrongly, that I'm a Phase One employee. The vast majority of members of this forum are only users. Phase One employee are signaled as such in their profile on the right.0 -
We are aware of the message from Apple, and given that GPU HW acceleration is a big thing for Capture One, we are investigating our options. 0 -
Anyone tested the Mojave beta with Capture One yet ? 0 -
This is the last thing to do !! 0 -
[quote="tenmangu81" wrote:
This is the last thing to do !!
I'm sure someone running the Mojave beta is willing to test this 😄0 -
[quote="siggibg" wrote:
[quote="tenmangu81" wrote:
This is the last thing to do !!
I'm sure someone running the Mojave beta is willing to test this 😄
Casual user here.
Running macOS Mojave 10.14 Beta & CO Pro 1.1.1 ( latest ).
iMac 27" Late-2015 4Ghz i7
16GB RAM
AMD Radeon R9 M395X
Not having any issues, but again, I'm just a casual user. Hardware/Processing are set to 'Auto'. 'it' says Capture One is using Hardware acceleration.
No problems with startup, no issues loading catalogs. Everything seems in order so far.
Last message in Syslog.
2018-06-28 16:17:59.345 *** Capture One 11 Pro 11.1.1. Build 10.6.dccdb91.fdd5375 STARTED ***
2018-06-28 16:17:59.346 (Thread 0x105553164180608 UI) Telerik Analytics set for version : 11.1.1.10
2018-06-28 16:17:59.354 (Thread 0x105553164180608 UI) Previous termination status: Normal.
2018-06-28 16:17:59.921 (Thread 0x105553164180608 UI) Limit number of open files set to: 10000
2018-06-28 16:18:12.269 (Thread 0x105553164180608 UI) -[CatalogDocument _coalescedAutosaveForce:] (object: 0x7fd088dcdd10) Autosaving /Users/xxxxx /2017 Salzburg.cocatalog/2017 Salzburg.cocatalogdb
2018-06-28 16:18:12.270 (Thread 0x105553164180608 UI) Autosave took 1.24 ms (min=1.24, max=1.24)
Alls Swell So Far... ( your mileage may vary... )
cheers!
dan0 -
[quote="zoemax" wrote:
[quote="siggibg" wrote:
[quote="tenmangu81" wrote:
This is the last thing to do !!
I'm sure someone running the Mojave beta is willing to test this 😄
Casual user here.
Running macOS Mojave 10.14 Beta & CO Pro 1.1.1 ( latest ).
iMac 27" Late-2015 4Ghz i7
16GB RAM
AMD Radeon R9 M395X
Not having any issues, but again, I'm just a casual user. Hardware/Processing are set to 'Auto'. 'it' says Capture One is using Hardware acceleration.
No problems with startup, no issues loading catalogs. Everything seems in order so far.
Last message in Syslog.
2018-06-28 16:17:59.345 *** Capture One 11 Pro 11.1.1. Build 10.6.dccdb91.fdd5375 STARTED ***
2018-06-28 16:17:59.346 (Thread 0x105553164180608 UI) Telerik Analytics set for version : 11.1.1.10
2018-06-28 16:17:59.354 (Thread 0x105553164180608 UI) Previous termination status: Normal.
2018-06-28 16:17:59.921 (Thread 0x105553164180608 UI) Limit number of open files set to: 10000
2018-06-28 16:18:12.269 (Thread 0x105553164180608 UI) -[CatalogDocument _coalescedAutosaveForce:] (object: 0x7fd088dcdd10) Autosaving /Users/xxxxx /2017 Salzburg.cocatalog/2017 Salzburg.cocatalogdb
2018-06-28 16:18:12.270 (Thread 0x105553164180608 UI) Autosave took 1.24 ms (min=1.24, max=1.24)
Alls Swell So Far... ( your mileage may vary... )
cheers!
dan
Thank you Dan, I appreciate this! Please report if you run into any issue 😊0 -
[quote="Riss" wrote:
I hope that Phase One will rewrite their code to support Metal - and I wouldn't mind paying for the update more. Adobe is bringing their apps to Mac App Store which means that they will be going Metal.
I for one would love to see C1 on Metal so my eGPU would properly work (which it doesn't at present time) on macOS, zero problem on Windows 10 😕
My eGPU works on C1 v11 - High Sierra.
I know that it doesn't work in MBP clamshell mode on Thunderbolt 1/2. Script must be used for TB1/2 eGPU.
Which GPU are you using? Are you using external monitor?0 -
[quote="Wesley" wrote:
[quote="Riss" wrote:
I hope that Phase One will rewrite their code to support Metal - and I wouldn't mind paying for the update more. Adobe is bringing their apps to Mac App Store which means that they will be going Metal.
I for one would love to see C1 on Metal so my eGPU would properly work (which it doesn't at present time) on macOS, zero problem on Windows 10 😕
My eGPU works on C1 v11 - High Sierra.
I know that it doesn't work in MBP clamshell mode on Thunderbolt 1/2. Script must be used for TB1/2 eGPU.
Which GPU are you using? Are you using external monitor?
I had a long discussion with Phase One support on this and they concluded that even with the scripts and working OpenCL benchmarks (Quadro P2000 hitting ±90,000 in Geekbench 4), something is not right on the macOS side of things. I tried yesterday a new script that forces eGPU acceleration per app (see egpu.io forum) and tested both C1 10 and 11. Editing was improved and I could see (and hear) eGPU working, but exporting/processing was still done on CPU. I'm fairly happy with this compromise even though I'd wish I wouldn't have to wait for the export that long. In Windows 10 exporting of same pictures took half the time and eGPU was doing the calculations. Right now I'm still in a process to retest the eGPU acceleration on my laptop and test UEFI solution to see if acceleration script will have any impact with this method.
Out of curiosity - when you select Activity monitor/GPU History do you really see C1 utilising your eGPU ? In my case C1 didn't do anything, tested both on Mac mini 2012 (TB1) and MBP 15" mid 2014 (2xTB2).0 -
[quote="Riss" wrote:
[quote="Wesley" wrote:
[quote="Riss" wrote:
I hope that Phase One will rewrite their code to support Metal - and I wouldn't mind paying for the update more. Adobe is bringing their apps to Mac App Store which means that they will be going Metal.
I for one would love to see C1 on Metal so my eGPU would properly work (which it doesn't at present time) on macOS, zero problem on Windows 10 😕
My eGPU works on C1 v11 - High Sierra.
I know that it doesn't work in MBP clamshell mode on Thunderbolt 1/2. Script must be used for TB1/2 eGPU.
Which GPU are you using? Are you using external monitor?
I had a long discussion with Phase One support on this and they concluded that even with the scripts and working OpenCL benchmarks (Quadro P2000 hitting ±90,000 in Geekbench 4), something is not right on the macOS side of things. I tried yesterday a new script that forces eGPU acceleration per app (see egpu.io forum) and tested both C1 10 and 11. Editing was improved and I could see (and hear) eGPU working, but exporting/processing was still done on CPU. I'm fairly happy with this compromise even though I'd wish I wouldn't have to wait for the export that long. In Windows 10 exporting of same pictures took half the time and eGPU was doing the calculations. Right now I'm still in a process to retest the eGPU acceleration on my laptop and test UEFI solution to see if acceleration script will have any impact with this method.
Out of curiosity - when you select Activity monitor/GPU History do you really see C1 utilising your eGPU ? In my case C1 didn't do anything, tested both on Mac mini 2012 (TB1) and MBP 15" mid 2014 (2xTB2).
Yes, I see GPU activity hitting 50-60% when I was exporting and spikes when using adjustment sliders.
I'm also getting 90k Geekbench with my RX 580.
And it's not just synthetically, I don't have to hear high fan noise since the fans don't spin as high because the dGPU is not being used. However using Photoshop CS6 activates the dGPU regardless of the eGPU and I'll hit max fan speed real quick. Come to think of it, I think I'll turn off GPU acceleration in PS since I don't use the features that needs it anyways and see what happens.
This is using an external monitor (eGPU -> DisplayPort -> Monitor) with the MBP screen brightness to off and lid closed 90% to avoid activating clamshell mode. But it should not matter if you wanted to use the MBP as a second screen.
However make sure the external monitor is set as the primary display and that mirror display is off.
System Preferences -> Displays -> Arrangement - > drag white menu bar to external monitor side0 -
[quote="Wesley" wrote:
Yes, I see GPU activity hitting 50-60% when I was exporting and spikes when using adjustment sliders.
I'm also getting 90k Geekbench with my RX 580.
And it's not just synthetically, I don't have to hear high fan noise since the fans don't spin as high because the dGPU is not being used. However using Photoshop CS6 activates the dGPU regardless of the eGPU and I'll hit max fan speed real quick. Come to think of it, I think I'll turn off GPU acceleration in PS since I don't use the features that needs it anyways and see what happens.
This is using an external monitor (eGPU -> DisplayPort -> Monitor) with the MBP screen brightness to off and lid closed 90% to avoid activating clamshell mode. But it should not matter if you wanted to use the MBP as a second screen.
However make sure the external monitor is set as the primary display and that mirror display is off.
System Preferences -> Displays -> Arrangement - > drag white menu bar to external monitor side
My external monitor is always set as primary display with mirroring off and it's connected to eGPU directly. I also see spikes on eGPU with the new script during editing, but no activity during export. I reckon it's due to me using Nvidia (which has unoficial support) and you having AMD card. Anecdotally Phase One tested eGPU with AMD card and they said it worked just fine. So it's macOS and Nvidia that's probably causing the issue for me. Like I said I'll keep testing other eGPU methods and see which one works the best.0 -
[quote="siggibg" wrote:
Anyone tested the Mojave beta with Capture One yet ?
I didn't, but there's an easy way to test the new OS for interested people. Also, Apps built using OpenGL and OpenCL will continue to run in macOS 10.14 Mojave based on Apple's site (which is the way deprecation works). But like every new major OS release, some programs might have issues and need some optimisation, which always can be the case, especially in complex applications.
For people that are not sure if they should update: on a Mac it's really easy to set up dual-boot and have two macOS systems installed onto the same drive. Installing the new macOS Mojave onto a second volume or partition let's you start into the new macOS version on boot an test it while still having your main system untouched. When you're sure that all your important programs run properly and you're happy with the new version, you can then update your main system and delete the second partition or volume. When the new APFS (Apple File System) is being used, it's easiest to create a second volume which only requires a few clicks in "disk utility". And when launching the Mojave installation, choose the newly created volume (or partition) as the install destination. When installation is finished, to choose which system to launch when the Mac is turned off, hold the option (alt) key while starting up the Mac.0 -
[quote="NNN636725752985226669" wrote:
... When the new APFS (Apple File System) is being used, it's easiest to create a second volume which only requires a few clicks in "disk utility". And when launching the Mojave installation, choose the newly created volume (or partition) as the install destination. When installation is finished, to choose which system to launch when the Mac is turned off, hold the option (alt) key while starting up the Mac.
A slight tangent from the thread, but related to the above ...
Do you know if it's possible to have "mixed" file systems on a SSD drive? (I.e., one existing partition formatted in the old HFS+ system (El Capitan), and a second partition formatted with APFS (for High Sierra or Mojave.) Or will the APFS/Mojave installation process cause the Mac to reformat all the drive's partitions as APFS, erasing the data/OS on the HFS+ partition? I have asked this question of both Apple support and Other World Computing but I get different answers depending on who answers the phone, so I'm not sure whom to believe.0
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