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48 comments

Date Votes
  • Drugstore
    Mac OS 11.0 Mojave is scheduled for September 24. And the date exists as long as the beta version for developer exists. You know, it's always in the middle of September that Apple releases new hard- and software!
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  • Permanently deleted user
    I'm pretty sure you can't. APFS is a container within which partitions exist. HFS+ is a different scheme. You can have multiple partitions in both kinds of file systems, but only one kind of container per physical device.

    With HFS+, I'm pretty sure that you could install Mojave and you definitely can install older OS partitions. I'm not sure whether pre-10.13 OSes will install onto partitions in an APFS device—you'd have to test it.

    Best bet: try it yourself on an external SSD. The difficulty I've seen is that 10.13 (and maybe Mojave) can't install onto a non-booted external device (at least I haven't been able to, and have read that it won't work). So to get it to work, you need to first install an older OS on the external device, then boot from it, and then upgrade it to 10.13 or 10.14.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="Nature Isme" wrote:
    I'm pretty sure you can't [install mixed file systems on the same SSD]. APFS is a container within which partitions exist. HFS+ is a different scheme. You can have multiple partitions in both kinds of file systems, but only one kind of container per physical device.

    With HFS+, I'm pretty sure that you could install Mojave and you definitely can install older OS partitions. I'm not sure whether pre-10.13 OSes will install onto partitions in an APFS device—you'd have to test it.

    Best bet: try it yourself on an external SSD.


    If I had a spare SSD, I would. I was hoping not to use my startup SSD for this experiment; in case anything goes wrong, restoring from backups takes a day (or more) out of my life.

    [quote="Nature Isme" wrote:
    The difficulty I've seen is that 10.13 (and maybe Mojave) can't install onto a non-booted external device (at least I haven't been able to, and have read that it won't work). So to get it to work, you need to first install an older OS on the external device, then boot from it, and then upgrade it to 10.13 or 10.14.


    I think that's similar to the advice I got from Apple tech support (senior level)... As long as I am upgrading a currently booted HFS+ OS partition to APFS High Sierra (rather than installing High Sierra from scratch or to a non-booted partition), I shouldn't experience any problems with mixing HFS+ and APFS partitions on the same SSD. But I might have misunderstood them, or they misunderstood me, or they're just guessing. OWC simply says "don't try it" (without knowing for sure what might happen).

    I guess I'll have to find a couple days to conduct the experiment.
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  • John Doe
    Isn't the partition scheme still GPT (GUID Partition Table) ? My understanding is that you should be able to have both APFS and HFS+ volumes (and also FAT, NTFS or whatever) on a GPT partitioned drive. Am I wrong?
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  • Grant Hodgeon
    [quote="John Doe" wrote:
    Isn't the partition scheme still GPT (GUID Partition Table) ? My understanding is that you should be able to have both APFS and HFS+ volumes (and also FAT, NTFS or whatever) on a GPT partitioned drive. Am I wrong?


    People misunderstand the technology behind APFS. APFS is a container and you can add volumes within. You can add a HFS partition within an APFS container. APFS utilises the disk without the old restrictions of partition tables. APFS can grow/shrink the partitions without repartitioning.

    Importantly: You can also have a HFS+ Partition with an APFS container within, but this negates the beauty that APFS affords -- flexibility.

    An important thing to note is that APFS cannot be shared with AFP -- SMB OR NFS ONLY.

    No point guessing and experimenting when it's in black and white here; https://support.apple.com/guide/disk-ut ... l14027/mac
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="photoGrant" wrote:
    No point guessing and experimenting when it's in black and white here; https://support.apple.com/guide/disk-ut ... l14027/mac


    If I'm interpreting the Apple article correctly (specifically, the section entitled, "Add a volume to a device formatted as Mac OS Extended, MS-DOS (FAT), or ExFAT"), my Mac OS Extended formatted SSD can contain both an APFS volume and a Mac OS Extended (Journaled) ("HFS+") volume side by side.

    Am I interpreting that correctly?
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  • John Doe
    What I understand is that what comes first is the partitioning scheme, namely the usual GPT scheme in use on all Intel Macs. It lets you define several partitions, which can either be APFS containers (which can themselves contain several APFS volumes), or HFS+, exFAT, NTFS, etc. volumes.

    Hence you get : GPT partitioned drive [APFS container(APFS volume 1, APFS volume 2, ...), HFS volume, exFAT volume, ...]
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  • Grant Hodgeon
    [quote="syncrasy" wrote:
    [quote="photoGrant" wrote:
    No point guessing and experimenting when it's in black and white here; https://support.apple.com/guide/disk-ut ... l14027/mac


    If I'm interpreting the Apple article correctly (specifically, the section entitled, "Add a volume to a device formatted as Mac OS Extended, MS-DOS (FAT), or ExFAT"), my Mac OS Extended formatted SSD can contain both an APFS volume and a Mac OS Extended (Journaled) ("HFS+") volume side by side.

    Am I interpreting that correctly?


    https://media.giphy.com/media/iBjpoDHLMm0POdaeoo/giphy.gif
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [edit... Grant, you posted your GIF just as I was adding this new post. Thanks. I'll keep my post below since it includes some add'l information.]


    [quote="syncrasy" wrote:
    If I'm interpreting the Apple article correctly (specifically, the section entitled, "Add a volume to a device formatted as Mac OS Extended, MS-DOS (FAT), or ExFAT"), my Mac OS Extended formatted SSD can contain both an APFS volume and a Mac OS Extended (Journaled) ("HFS+") volume side by side.

    Am I interpreting that correctly?


    Well, I performed the experiment with my MacBook Pro SSD: side-by-side partitions of Mac OS Extended Journaled (HFS+) with El Capitan and APFS with High Sierra. It worked. Both systems boot and the HFS+ partition is untouched. But there's at least one issue that users should be aware of... When booted into the HFS+ partition, the computer doesn't "see" the APFS partition (it's not mounted or available for use). Disk Utility knows the partition is there, but it's labeled "Untitled" in Mac OS Extended format (even though it is actually APFS). So users have to remember what they did so they don't accidentally erase their APFS partition and data. Edit: And this means it's imperative that you use a separate HFS+ drive for your files, rather than either of the startup drives, so you can access your files when booted into either system. (When booted into the APFS partition, the computer does "see" the HFS+ partition.)
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  • John Doe
    [quote="syncrasy" wrote:
    [edit... Grant, you posted your GIF just as I was adding this new post. Thanks. I'll keep my post below since it includes some add'l information.]


    [quote="syncrasy" wrote:
    If I'm interpreting the Apple article correctly (specifically, the section entitled, "Add a volume to a device formatted as Mac OS Extended, MS-DOS (FAT), or ExFAT"), my Mac OS Extended formatted SSD can contain both an APFS volume and a Mac OS Extended (Journaled) ("HFS+") volume side by side.

    Am I interpreting that correctly?


    Well, I performed the experiment with my MacBook Pro SSD: side-by-side partitions of Mac OS Extended Journaled (HFS+) with El Capitan and APFS with High Sierra. It worked. Both systems boot and the HFS+ partition is untouched. But there's at least one issue that users should be aware of... When booted into the HFS+ partition, the computer doesn't "see" the APFS partition (it's not mounted or available for use). Disk Utility knows the partition is there, but it's labeled "Untitled" in Mac OS Extended format (even though it is actually APFS). So users have to remember what they did so they don't accidentally erase their APFS partition and data. (When booted into the APFS partition, the computer does "see" the HFS+ partition.)

    That's likely a limitation of El Capitan. If you installed High Sierra on the HFS+ partition instead of El Capitan, I suspect it would "see" the APFS partition.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="John Doe" wrote:
    [quote="syncrasy" wrote:
    ... But there's at least one issue that users should be aware of... When booted into the HFS+ partition, the computer doesn't "see" the APFS partition (it's not mounted or available for use). Disk Utility knows the partition is there, but it's labeled "Untitled" in Mac OS Extended format (even though it is actually APFS). So users have to remember what they did so they don't accidentally erase their APFS partition and data. (When booted into the APFS partition, the computer does "see" the HFS+ partition.)

    That's likely a limitation of El Capitan. If you installed High Sierra on the HFS+ partition instead of El Capitan, I suspect it would "see" the APFS partition.


    That might be the case for a spinning platter HD, but remember I'm using an SSD. On an SSD you can't install High Sierra and keep the HFS+ format (as far as I know). If I installed High Sierra on the "El Capitan" partition (currently HFS+), the installation process will automatically convert the format to APFS. Both partitions would be APFS.
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  • John Doe
    [quote="syncrasy" wrote:
    [quote="John Doe" wrote:
    [quote="syncrasy" wrote:
    ... But there's at least one issue that users should be aware of... When booted into the HFS+ partition, the computer doesn't "see" the APFS partition (it's not mounted or available for use). Disk Utility knows the partition is there, but it's labeled "Untitled" in Mac OS Extended format (even though it is actually APFS). So users have to remember what they did so they don't accidentally erase their APFS partition and data. (When booted into the APFS partition, the computer does "see" the HFS+ partition.)

    That's likely a limitation of El Capitan. If you installed High Sierra on the HFS+ partition instead of El Capitan, I suspect it would "see" the APFS partition.


    That might be the case for a spinning platter HD, but remember I'm using an SSD. On an SSD you can't install High Sierra and keep the HFS+ format (as far as I know).

    Yes you can, via a Terminal command. That's what I did. See for instance http://osxdaily.com/2017/10/17/how-skip ... gh-sierra/
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="syncrasy" wrote:
    [I don't think you can] install High Sierra [on an SSD] and keep the HFS+ format (as far as I know).

    [quote="John Doe" wrote:
    Yes you can, via a Terminal command. That's what I did. See for instance http://osxdaily.com/2017/10/17/how-skip ... gh-sierra/


    Ohhhh, okay. Very interesting. Thanks. I noticed that another method is to install High Sierra on a regular HD and then clone/copy it to an SSD partition still in HFS+ format. I might have to rethink my plans. Since I'm not converting the entire drive to APFS, I'm not sure that a single APFS partition would provide any benefit anyway.

    Have you experienced any pitfalls or "gotchas" by avoiding the APFS format with High Sierra?
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  • John Doe
    [quote="syncrasy" wrote:

    Have you experienced any pitfalls or "gotchas" by avoiding the APFS format with High Sierra?

    No issues so far, everything runs just fine.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    Thanks Grant H and John D. I now have High Sierra running on my SSD partition in Mac Extended (Journaled) (HFS+) format (I skipped the APFS formatting by cloning/copying a High Sierra installation from a regular HD to the SSD partition using SuperDuper; I didn't use the Terminal trick). Everything appears to be running smoothly. Now (most) of my 32-bit apps will survive for a while longer and I'll have the current Apple security. I might not even have to run El Capitan anymore (but I still have Snow Leopard for a few legacy apps -- hence the partitioning).

    Sorry for hijacking the thread, but I appreciate everyone's help.

    Now back to your Mojave discussion...
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  • Valentino Luggen
    [quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
    We are aware of the message from Apple, and given that GPU HW acceleration is a big thing for Capture One, we are investigating our options.


    Thanks Christian

    i just saw apps perform like 20% better on metal compared to opencl on the same hardware.
    Has there been any updated at phaseone on this?
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  • NN87501
    Can anybody confirm if C-1 is working OK on Mojave and specially for tethering? I just updated to High Sierra before I realized the APFS Drive thing. Cannot find anybody saying whether C-1 works or not in Mojave?
    Thank you for any updates!!!
    Eric
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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter
    Some people say they are getting on OK using it with Mojave, but C1 does not yet officially support Mojave, so it would be at your own risk, and the fact that it appears to work on someone else's setup does not guarantee that it will work on yours.

    Ian
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