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NEF vs. DNG : Different renderings in C1

bokeron
I've just observed that -- when I convert a D200 NEF > DNG, and then import both to Capture One 4, the renderings are slightly different ... both of them with default settings.

I select ICC profiles for NEF > D200 Generic , DNG > Neutral.

DNG is darker than NEF.... not uniformly daker, but just some parts... like different curves applied.
Same Kelvin values (WB) applied to both files give different results -- DNG needs lower Kelvins degrees to look like the NEF.
NEF Reds are orang-ish in DNG. DNG yellows are orang-ish in NEF.
Something I'm not sure how to describe, but it looks like differences in color brilliance between the two files.

If I select ICC profile for DNG > D200 Generic , then the same applies, only that now DNG looks more saturated than NEF.

For reference, Lightroom renders both files exactly identical.

So ... is this something related only to how C1 renders both files (C1 not knowing how to manipulate a DNG), or is it related to the DNG conversion itself (adobe playing god with the raw data) ?
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Comments

5 comments

Date Votes
  • bokeron
    No one seem to know, or care 😉 but just in case someone reads this, I asked in Adobe's DNG forum and Thomas Knoll sent me here to ask (not literally), as the bug is Phase One's, not Adobe's ...

    On the other hand... SILKYPIX has this problem, too.

    ...and I still don't know why.
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  • Roine
    Hello

    Canon G9 files are also abt 30 % oversaturated.

    Roine
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  • bokeron
    Well, the answer I get form the Adobe forums, included HIM, seems to be that Capture One doesn't know what to do with DNGs.

    So... I'd like to know what Phase One's oppinion is.
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  • Jonathan Gilbert
    Hello,

    Adobe is correct in that if a file process different in our software it is our fault so to speak. DNG is a standard in "where to put the information" not how the information in formated. So, a DNG-converter still needs to know about the camera. Cameras that we have developed our own processing algorithms for and our own profiles for will appear very consistent between native raw and DNG version. Cameras that have not developed such support for will tend to vary since we have to use a generic process and a generic profile.

    Adobe uses a much more generic method of processing from the start so they would tend to have more consistency across the board. They also support many more Raw formats than we currently do.

    We are still rather "young" when it comes to DNG conversion, and I can say with great confidence that we will continue to improve in this area.
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  • bokeron
    Thanks for your answer, Jon.

    That's what I've understood from reading about DNG, but then I tried... and the results doesn't seem to match the theory.

    C1 knows about my camera, Nikon D200. It renders the NEF files smoothly.

    If what's inside the DNG is bit for bit the same image raw data, then applying the same profile applied to NEF, the output should be virtually the same... but it isn't. Even the Kelvin degrees are different for WB.
    The same happens to silkypix.

    Could you please elaborate ? I'd love to understand why.

    And some more related questions.

    Let say C1 has to edit a DNG from a camera it doesn't directly supports. Then it has to apply a profile to it.

    Adobe's DNG converter includes a profile or description for each camera, or so I've understood.
    Is this the one that gets applied ?
    Is a Phase One's own generic profile ? If so, why not use the one included in the DNG ?

    If a Color Tool like C1 3.7 is included in the pro version of C1 4, would be theoretically possible to tweak the generic profile and set it as the default one ?

    Could this tweaked profile be included in the DNG... not as custom C1 settings but substituing the Adobe's one, in order to allow other company's software to use it when rendering the modified DNG ?
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