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Missing adjustment masks?

peter Frings
Hi all,

I've been getting "Error loading adjustment mask" errors in the Event log, with the description:
"An adjustment mask for an image is missing. The missing mask has been replaced by an empty mask."

When I look at the adjustment layers, the mask is indeed gone. Luckily, I had made output so my edits are "saved".

Needless to say this is not something I'm very happy with. I don't know how this has happened; I did not move or delete files using the Finder. What I did is to move the rejected photos (labelled red, from within a smart album) to the session trash and then selected to empty the session trash. I have some feeling that C1 got confused with variants, removing the masks of the kept variants as well as those of the kept variants.

Maybe related is the fact that I still see the entries for the deleted images, but with question marks instead of previews. The viewer states that the "selected image is unavailable".

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I only work from within C1 and only use the tools that C1 gives me (labels, smart albums, Move to Trash, Empty session trash). This shouldn't make C1 loose tracks of where things are and what things it must keep and what things it can delete.

Any tips to prevent this kind of missing stuff happening?

Cheers,
Peter.
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Comments

11 comments

Date Votes
  • SFA
    Peter,

    From what you have written I assume you are working solely in Session mode - no catalogue activity involved?

    If you have a file with variants and you want to get rid of the file then locally all of the variants should go as well. If you just want to eliminate variants (which, mainly, are just sections of instructions in the edit file related to the base image) then you should just be deleting the variant not the file. And not via Trash as far as I am aware.

    The Local Adjustment Layer masks are stored in a different "instructions" file to the other edits although as fas as I am aware the update concepts are the same - the instructions for the mask related to a specific variant of an original image will be stored in a section of that file.

    The other area ripe for confusing might be that any image is freely available to have edits associated with as made when accessed form different session files. Deleting from one session but leaving the other might just give the symptoms you describe. Is this likely to be even vaguely possible in your situation?


    Grant
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  • peter Frings
    Hi Grant,

    I'm indeed working in a session (gave up on catalogues), and only one session is referencing those images.


    If you have a file with variants and you want to get rid of the file then locally all of the variants should go as well. If you just want to eliminate variants (which, mainly, are just sections of instructions in the edit file related to the base image) then you should just be deleting the variant not the file. And not via Trash as far as I am aware.


    OK, maybe I can learn that (old habits…). Right now, when I no longer want a variant, I mark it as rejected (red label), and then when done, I select all red images and move them to the trash.

    I'll have to check whether that is indeed the problem. If that is so, I think this ought to be fixed; for a user there should not be a difference between images with or without variants (LR has a similar problem).

    Thanks for the fast reply, I'll give it a try!

    Cheers,
    Peter.
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  • peter Frings
    I've noticed that many of the "missing files" (not talking about the masks) have an additional number at the end of their file names. So it looks as if C1 is trashing the same file over and over again, renaming it to make it unique.

    [trying]

    So, that seems to be the case. When you have an image that's already in the trash (but that is still part of an album), and you move it to the trash again, then the file gets renumbered. If you then empty the trash, CP gets confused and shows the trashed image as still present but missing.

    Edit: Logged as 211485

    Mmmm.
    Peter.
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  • SFA
    Peter,

    It sounds like C1 is trying to preserve connections for you across albums.

    Are you working with the same file in several albums?

    If you really want to delete the file it suggests you want to delete it from all albums. If you don't want to delete from all albums then just delete form the albums where you no longer want to see it. If we add in the additional potential for variants in albums where you want to eliminate some of the variants then just delete the variants.

    If you move a file to the trash it will "move" the original file and associate it with a different folder. That, of course, would potentially break any other links that you might now be editing at the time.

    I think you may find here are other ways to manage the process that you wish to perform - ways that you will find more convenient. But let's see what the C1 Supporters come up with.



    Grant
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  • peter Frings
    Hi Grant,

    It's easy to mess up (well, in my workflow, it is 😊

    - create smart album that collects "red" labels.
    - mark an image with a red label -> it appears in that smart album.
    - select all images in that smart album and "Move to trash". This does not remove the images from the smart album.
    - Move them again to the trash -> Bingo, missing images.

    Of course, this is a stupid thing to do when looking at the above steps. However, in a larger session (even without albums), iet's easy to move stuff to the trash, and then the next day reject a few other images. It's so easy to select the "rejected" smart album and trash the images again. It's hard for me to track which ones I already trashed and which ones not. I feel that C1 must do that for me; after all, it has a database!

    Well, I filed a case. Let's see what the reply will be.

    Thanks for your support!
    Peter.
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  • SFA
    AH!

    I'm not about to try this but ...

    Smart albums are virtual albums.

    Here's my take on what is happening.

    When you first delete your red tagged images in the Smart Album it does the safe thing and moves them to the Trash folder (i.e. it associated them with a new folder (Trash) and removes them from their original folder. Whether it actually changes the location on disk is another matter. That might depend on where you are currently pointing the system to as the location of the Trash folder since it can be any folder you like to choose.)

    Now I reckon if you leave the red tagged smart folder and head over to the trash folder you will be able to see your images in there. In effect you have staged them to a location ready to bin them but you still have an opportunity to change your mind and manually relocate them back to active duty should you wish to. Or you could empty the Trash folder and get rid of the files - originals and the Capture One associated files that I think you will find will have moved with them. (I'm using Windows and that is what happens in Win 7).

    Until they are gone they will still appear in your Red Tagged Smart Album. In effect when you delete them for the second time you are now emptying the Trash and they disappear. However any newly Red Flagged images will only be going through the first stage - move to Trash. Unless, of course, the process event sequence means that the "New" trash is thrown out with the old ... unexpectedly.

    Assuming I am right the database IS tracking things for you - just not in a way that you would want it to!

    I can think of two basic approaches to a solution.

    If you really want to delete the images after the first Delete that puts the images in the trash delete them again and dispose of them. Maybe directly form the Trash folder rather than the smart album.

    If you actually just want to leave them in the trash for a while and clear them later than having deleted them simply untag them from the smart album by changing or removing the colour flag. Your don't really need the colour flag any more - the images are in the Trash folder and you know where they are.

    (Note that this assumes you are not using multiple trash "folders" within a single session. I would assume you are not doing so - at least not intentionally - but if you are then things may get a little more complicated.

    Note too that there is some potential for the Deletion process on the Mac being slightly different to that of Windows but I think these suggestions are likely to be relevant in concept even if not exactly correct for step by step usage.)


    HTH.


    Grant
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  • peter Frings
    Hi Grant,

    To ensure we're not discussion odd set-ups, I'm using the default sessions with the 4 folders, and the image in the session are not shared with any other session or catalogue. The basics, really.

    If you actually just want to leave them in the trash for a while and clear them later than having deleted them simply untag them from the smart album by changing or removing the colour flag. Your don't really need the colour flag any more - the images are in the Trash folder and you know where they are.


    The thing is that I don't want to see trashed files in my browser. I would expect that by default, trashed images would NOT show up in any browser, except when you're browsing the trash (don't get me started on not showing subfolders...). That's what every filesystem does for you: it hides the trashed files for you.

    Because C1 doesn't do that, I need to add a filter or use a smart filter to get rid of the unwanted ones (red flag) so I can focus on the wanted ones.

    Until they are gone they will still appear in your Red Tagged Smart Album. In effect when you delete them for the second time you are now emptying the Trash and they disappear.


    The point is that I do not yet empty the trash before deleting (Move to trash) them a second time. See the steps in my previous post. That doesn't empty the trash, but it renames the files by appending a " 1" to the name. The image still remains in the smart folder (trash is not yet emptied, remember), and when I then empty the trash, C1 removes the files in it, but because of the renaming, it looks as if it can't link it back to the image. Sort of. And then you're stuck with a "missing image" thing in your session that you can't get rid of.

    Maybe on Windows it works differently?

    I stopped using catalogues, mainly for performance reasons. Now it seems that sessions have to be treated very carefully…

    Cheers,
    Peter.
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  • SFA
    [quote="peter.f" wrote:


    Maybe on Windows it works differently?



    That is possible since by this point in the removals process one is working with what the OS offers to "remove" files from disk - or at least trash any reference to them.

    The thing is though that the Trash folder is simply a place where images that you are likely to delete are gathered together. In effect C1 IS hiding them from you as far as your working folders are concerned - or would be but for the smart album selection by colour tag.

    Bear in mind that the "Trash" folder is not a trash folder as it might be set up by its properties in an Operating System - it is just a default "bin" for leaving stuff you think you will not want again. Any folder can be made the trash folder. And you can still return a file to an active folder should you change your mind up to the point where you empty the trash. I think if you simply remove the red tag once you have moved a set of images to trash you would not see the problem.

    The colour tag's work is done for that group of files. Retaining the flag is just a confusion.

    Alternatively set the tag and leave the files where they are until you are finally happy with all of the images you wish to dispose of. Use a filter (i.e. a smart album) for "active" files which would give any colour EXCEPT red including no colour. Tag an active file red and it will then immediately disappear from view.

    When done activate your red tag smart album, trash the selection and clear the trash folder and the job is done.

    HTH.


    Grant
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  • peter Frings
    The thing is though that the Trash folder is simply a place where images that you are likely to delete are gathered together. In effect C1 IS hiding them from you as far as your working folders are concerned - or would be but for the smart album selection by colour tag.


    Ah, yes , they're no longer visible in the _folders_, but they are still in the _albums_ (smart or not). So, using albums in a session is maybe not the way to go. Mmm, food for thought…

    Thanks,
    Peter.
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  • SFA
    [quote="peter.f" wrote:
    The thing is though that the Trash folder is simply a place where images that you are likely to delete are gathered together. In effect C1 IS hiding them from you as far as your working folders are concerned - or would be but for the smart album selection by colour tag.


    Ah, yes , they're no longer visible in the _folders_, but they are still in the _albums_ (smart or not). So, using albums in a session is maybe not the way to go. Mmm, food for thought…

    Thanks,
    Peter.


    Well now there is a challenge.

    A smart album is basically a dynamically populated filter - a virtual album that is constantly changing if the content changes.

    An album, on the other hand, is a virtual gathering of image, potentially from different locations (i.e. not all in the same folder, etc., but all in the same catalogue or session) that becomes a non-dynamic list of things that we (or the system at time of import and perhaps under our direction) select to be gathered together to be access from a single selection.

    That list of contents is, in effect, an adminstrative record that stands alone. If it is thought of, for example, as an index to a traditional filing system (legacy paper?), the fact that a file reference in the index had gone missing would need to be documented accordingly or the index could be amended to remove the reference to the file. The removal of the file for some purpose other than authorised transfer elsewhere or destruction would not initiate the removal of reference to it from the index (our Album in this case using Photographic terminology).

    To change the index (Album) would required an edit activity from the Album itself if security of content was an issue.

    Now one could argue that a change made by some process not directly involved with the album in question should, within a closed system like a catalogue, be allowed to make the changes. But should such a transaction also record that the "document" once existed but at some point has been removed?

    If it should have such a record, for the avoidance of potential future confusion, then either it needs a History of Changes file of sort and all of the stuff that such a need would introduce, or at a simple level one could just leave the reference in the album until someone decides to remove it.

    I would think that the simple idea of a manual interactive tidy up for the album (giving a chance to spot undesired anomalies and perhaps correct them) might be the simplest and best option PROVIDED that it is easy to identify, group and select the currently "missing" files for appropriate administrative actions.

    Just my thoughts.


    Grant
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  • peter Frings
    Hi Grant,

    I think you're making it too difficult. I'm well aware of the difference between albums, smart albums, etc. I've been using Aperture since day 1 that had all these concepts. In Aperture, or in a file system, when you 'move to trash'/reject something, that thing is hidden from ALL other places it is/was. It's still there, mind you, but it is hidden by default.

    You have explicitly told the program that you're no longer interested in that thing. Then it must simply hide it, no need to get philosophical about it 😊 And that is really not difficult to handle (I'm in the software business for over 30 years, as developer and UI/UX designer, so I have a reasonable idea of how easy/complex some things are).

    Now, I have to manually make filters to hide those things I'm no longer interested in. Software is meant to make life easier, not more complex (although it often fails incredibly well at doing that!).

    <rant coming up>
    I'm very much willing to follow the concepts of a certain program, but not when they make no sense or it when they are too much off from what I think is the proper way. How can a program manage to confuse itself by allow to move things to the trash that are already in the trash (see previous posts)? Hey, did you know you can right-click on the Trash icon and select "Move to trash"?! I don't even dare to try it! Did you know there's a Trash icon in catalogues that seems to be completely useless? Removing and deleting images from catalogues (not an uncommon use case) is much more complex than it ought to be.
    <end rant. Thank you for listening>

    Grant, I really appreciate your replies and willingness to discuss this, I really do!

    Cheers,
    Peter.
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