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File Management in v5?

gregger1
Hi there,
I've been evaluating CaptureOne 4 and now v5. I visited the booth at the Photo Plus Expo in NY, but no one could talk about v5's features yet (since it wasn't released).

I often shoot RAW+JPG and put all the files in one folder.
I want to manage some or all these files in a session.
I've got lots of photos already named and organized by folder and tagged with metadata.

Can someone tell me how to do the following easily inside v5 (this applies to folders, favorites, and albums within a session)?

  • Select / filter only certain files by file name (e.g. *.CR2, File-2009-10-2*.*, etc.)

  • Select / filter files by metadata tag (an attribute I add during or after import)

  • Assign a color to multiple files (when I shift-select and try to add a color attribute, it just adds the color attribute to one file)
    • For example, I might want to select a subset of files by filename within a shoot

    • Add some metadata tags, add a color

    • Then select another section by filtering the files by metadata tag and assigning a color there

  • Is there a way to speed up folder enumeration in CaptureOne's System Folders view


Is this why Expression 2 was offered with CaptureOne originally?

I really like a lot of CaptureOne, but the file management is killing me right now. It feels like I'm missing something obvious - and maybe that's something like "manage your files first in Windows, Expression, or Windows Live Photo Gallery". But I can't assign colors to files there (can I?).

For me, this feels like a showstopper for purchase. But it seems like something everyone here should have a fix for (I searched the forums a lot, but terms like "filter" "color" and "files" turn up lots of random, unrelated results).

Thanks...
TTFN
Gregg
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Comments

9 comments

Date Votes
  • James 7
    Hi Greg,

    iview/expressions is still the last word in management. I've never been blessed with managing a library (!) but C1 was/is always historically all about RAW processing: getting the RAW to the very best file possible. iView (that later became Expressions) or something similar was then used to manage all those lovely files.

    The only organise by feature at the moment contained the view>sort> menu.

    Organsiing Jpegs/Raws can be done by "size". Crude, but it'll separate the two file types.

    Names is limited by Alphabetical ascend/descend.

    There is no search by/order by for meta data tagged files yet. Who knows where this will go.

    To add colour tags to multiple files, make sure you have the Primary button deselected from the menu bar (looks like a square with a 1 in it) this disables commands across batch selections when on, unless you press shift while clicking. An old 4.5 feature that caused some confusion. See page 35 of the help for more info.

    Not sure about the last point? Speed up what sorry?
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  • gregger1
    Ah, thank you so much for the reply and tips!

    The last point was just that digging around your hard drive in C1 takes a while. Click on a folder to expand it and it grinds away for a while. Go to a folder you've already visited, it grinds for a while (well, with 700 photos in it).

    I did do the "sort by size" trick and that was OK. I will try the batch vs. single button to apply colors to file groups.

    I do enjoy the session concept with its albums and favorites. I can see that being useful. Especially if you "pre-process" folders in advance with Expression Media or Windows Live Photo Gallery so you have things grouped together (or at least buckets for things).

    Also, I'm learning the value of the View / Proof Profile the hard way when it comes to calibration, printing, and all things in between. It's so valuable to have that option without jumping through a lot of hoops!

    So, Expression will go on my list. Windows Live Photo Gallery does a banner job of metadata management and multiple-catalogs. Importing is also great. However, I think Expression Media will kick its butt in terms of very large collections. My collection isn't large by any means, but I do have it located on a server and locally, so having catalog files of what's where makes finding what you need simple.

    Thanks again,
    TTFN
    Gregg
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  • Robert Frith
    If you value your metadata you should be careful.

    Both C1 v4 and v5 strip metadata as part of the conversion process. V5 strips metadata from the RAW files on opening a session.

    Strangely v3 didn't strip any metadata at all so Phase One are apparently trending away from best practice in this area. We have a support case open on this issue, the initial reply to us in part reads "I tried going through the [IPTC] specification...". Marginal improvements were made to metadata handling through the troubled life of v4, however with commitment like this and I suspect that we won't see any significant improvement to the way v5 works with metadata.
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  • studio78
    You can sort by file type in EM1. Has that ability been dropped in v2?
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  • gregger1
    Whoa, what? Yeah, I value my metadata a LOT! I mean, that's the whole basis of sorting in Expression or Windows Live Photo Gallery (or even Windows Explorer).

    I noticed that exported files from C1 retained little metadata (a certain Adobe product does this too), but I hadn't thought about the RAW files losing it on import.

    I don't yet have Expression Media (though I have the other Expression tools), but I do believe you can sort this way. Even Windows File Manager can sort on that (and more). Windows Live Photo Gallery can as well (and you can search for tags, file type etc. to filter things down). It eliminates the need for folders, but now I find I may have to go back to folders again with C1.

    I guess I could use Microsoft's Pro Photo Tools to re-assign metadata, but that's a total PITA. It's like adding a recycle loop in the workflow.

    OK - the next part is a bit cranky because I'm evaluating C1 v5 and I spent 3 hours last night organizing files instead of processing files. I'm trying to be really careful in the 30 days I have with C1 before making a decision.

    I'm hoping someone here will read this and say "No way, that never happens to me. Try doing XYZ to fix it!". I've filed support cases during C1 v4 evaluation, but I think they (rightfully) concentrate on paying customers.

    So...

    I have been let down by C1's file handling - especially albums now. I know it's a RAW processor, but at some point you do have to organize files as you work with them.

    The session concept is cool, but last night I had repeated crashes when trying to move (200+) items I put in one album to another album. It finally corrupted my source album. I was trying to group images in separate albums by exposure settings so I could process them in batches more easily.

    This is something I should be able to do by sorting and filtering *metadata* (right?).

    Also, you can't multi-select images in an album and delete them (or can I?). I tried clicking the "1" toolbar button as suggested and still, every time I hit the "Delete" key when 5 pictures are selected, it deletes 1 picture from the album.

    I've used a LOT of software in my day (product manager). I have worked in software companies and give demos using alpha and beta software. I know how to work around problems. I feel like I'm already finding workarounds in C1 v5.

    I've committed and got burned by many products because they were "technically superior" to the widely adopted tool (OS/2, Lotus 1-2-3, WordPerfect, the Amiga, etc.). In the end, their technical superiority lost to popularity. I hate that.

    I need C1 to stay stable for me. But, its superiority can't beat out the lost time and frustration due to crashing and not trusting it with my data. I need the fundamentals like file handling and metadata to work well.

    I like C1 a lot. I don't know what to do. My trial of C1 v4 ended up getting damaged so wouldn't even start (even after uninstalling and reinstalling it - before my 30 days was up). I chalked it up to my machine being grumpy (so I flattened it and put on Win7). Now v5 is starting to exhibit similar behavior.

    TTFN
    Gregg
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  • studio78
    Ah, I see EM was mentioned but I didn't notice it wasn't being used... I've been doing all my file management in EM/iView for many years and just use C1 for capture and process. Haven't looked at various management features, each shot is in it's own session I have no idea at this point what to do with albums, I ignore that. For sure C1 has some organizational capabilities but there's a reason it's bundled with EM. But I hesitate to even recommend that now because as capable as it is EM development seems to have stalled.

    Dave
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  • Bill86
    Gregg, In regards to deleting photos, I first select photos I want to keep by designating them with a star (or any number of stars). When I want to delete multiple photos at once from a folder I go to Edit/Deselect All, then Edit/Select By Rating/Unrated, then to File and select either Move to Trash or Delete Permanently. I use stars for selection but I assume these same steps would also work with color designations.

    I can understand why Phase One has not included file management with C1. Play to your strengths and their strength is unquestionably in high-end digital backs and RAW processing. I don't know the status of MS Expressions, but using a Mac (and there once was and may still be a Mac version) I am wary that it could be dropped at any time. I would hope that Phase One could partner with a company whose fortunes are more closely tied to a file management product and therefore more likely to maintain an active interest in it.
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  • gregger1
    Agreed... I think it would be great if they were able to partner with some sort of good file management solution.

    Just to clarify - "delete" in an Album doesn't actually touch the file, it just removes it from the Album. So it should be a safe operation. They should probably call it "remove".

    Other places you "delete" are destructive, so you have to be careful.

    I'm looking into Expression Media again... somewhere in the Expression suite, I thought I saw some sort of new mention about it, but I can't remember.

    The stripping metadata problem is really making me sad.

    TTFN
    Gregg
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  • studio78
    It's no longer part of the Expression Suite, it's a stand-alone, and it's standing alone, in the shadows..

    http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/deta ... 0679a14b77
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