Capture One 9.0.3 did not start on Win 10 Insider build

Christian Gruner

February 24, 2016 07:47

Insider builds, or any Alpha, Beta or Release candidate of any OS should be considered unsupported and untested from a Capture One stand-point.
I highly recommend not using pre-releases, if you are depending on Capture One (or any other software package, for that matter) for your business.

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Trevor Baker

February 24, 2016 17:02

Same here - you are running Insider build 14267 which is incompatible with Capture One 9 . I tried going back to CO8 and got the same or worse error messages.

regards

Trevor

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Philippe BOIS

February 24, 2016 17:55

Same here - Windows 10 64bit Insider build 14267 is incompatible with Capture One 9

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Trevor Baker

February 24, 2016 19:20

Just upgraded to 14271 - same error messages.

Capture One 9 must be making some illegal calls to Windows 10

regards

Trevor

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BeO

February 24, 2016 19:44

Sorry I'm on WIndows 7, so it is not clear for me: Isn't the Insider group and it's builds like alpha/beta testing?

Thanks,
BeO

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SFA

February 24, 2016 20:02

I assume Trevor's post was meant for the internal beta testing group that helps Phase discover new and possibly undocumented features that MS have introduced to Win 10 so that the C1 developers have time to fix them before the next point release and the general release of the Win update.

Who would have thought that MS would follow the lead of Apple (and others before them) and just change stuff then wait for the world to fix the problems?

You have to admire their agility.

Grant

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BeO

February 24, 2016 20:20

Hmm, I doubt that P1's beta testing group members post issues here in the forum.

14267 seems to be a Window 10 alpha build ("Fast-ring"). As the Windows 10 Insider group seems to be open to everyone, this seems to be an additional burden to P1...

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SFA

February 24, 2016 20:26

[quote="BeO" wrote:
Hmm, I doubt that P1's beta testing group members post issues here in the forum.

Well no of course not - but I did detect a slip or two in that regard at the back end of last year ... so mistakes can happen ...

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Trevor Baker

March 06, 2016 10:36

Does not start with build 14279.

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Johannes.F.Leitner

March 07, 2016 14:26

[quote="SFA" wrote:
[quote="BeO" wrote:
Hmm, I doubt that P1's beta testing group members post issues here in the forum.

Well no of course not - but I did detect a slip or two in that regard at the back end of last year ... so mistakes can happen ...

Maybe P1 should extend their beta test program to windows insiders 😁

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SFA

March 07, 2016 15:57

[quote="Johannes.F.Leitner" wrote:
[quote="SFA" wrote:
[quote="BeO" wrote:
Hmm, I doubt that P1's beta testing group members post issues here in the forum.

Well no of course not - but I did detect a slip or two in that regard at the back end of last year ... so mistakes can happen ...

Maybe P1 should extend their beta test program to windows insiders 😁

But why? How would they make any sense of the information they would get unless they know whether Microsoft are going to change things that may be causing problems? The same sorts of problems that Apple presents to the world and, of course, Linux users so much enjoy that they actively seek out such challenges in their world.

Grant

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Johannes.F.Leitner

March 07, 2016 18:16

Maybe because more testing improves the quality of software?
It also increases the effort to deal with tne issues and non-issues.

Johannes

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BeO

March 09, 2016 15:43

[quote="Johannes.F.Leitner" wrote:
Maybe because more testing improves the quality of software?
Johannes

Testing does not improve software quality at all. Testing only tells you about the quality of software.

[quote="Johannes.F.Leitner" wrote:

It also increases the effort to deal with tne issues and non-issues.

Johannes

Excatly, testing (and bug fixing) C1 on Windows alpha/beta versions only reduces capacity for testing (and bug fixing) on officially released productive Windows versions, or makes C1 more expensive.

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maryosullivan50000

March 12, 2016 07:38

Exact same issue here.
No other programs have this problem so it seems to be a C1 issue as opposed to a windows issue. The program was probably written for an earlier version of .net Framework or something like that. Bad programming practice..

P.S.
When registering: "Please register your self"? it's YOURSELF, one word. And trying to actually register was hell!

This does not inspire confidence in your tech people.

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BeO

March 12, 2016 10:20

maryosullivan50000,

I suggest to read the post from Christian above.

Software vendors do have all rights to define the system requirements for their software, and if this does not include beta versions of an operating system (I am tempted to say "Bad user practice..") than you have to accept that.

It is great that WIndows beta versions are available, great for software companies who want to be ahead for their own testing and R&D. Not so great for end-users.

Programs are always written for a .net Framework version and it is the duty of Microsoft to maximise backwards compatibility of their newer .Net versions as much as possible. Your rant is inappropriate.

Apart from that please notice that C1 9.0.3 was released Jan. 20th and Windows Insider 14267 a month later (Feb. 18th).

And now people come here and complain and even rant about a piece of software released before the new Windows beta was even distributed that this very software version does not run on the newer Windows beta? Are you all joking??

A typo in english written by a danish company and your own inability to register without selling your soul destroys your confidence in this superb raw converter? Well, I have no words...

Last but not least, as this is your first post (nice introduction btw. 😊) this is a user to user forum, so the pronoun "your" (tech people) is not appropriate either.

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Peter Hugger

March 12, 2016 23:59

Wow - lots of passive aggression!

Just to be clear -
Most other programs work fine on these Insider builds This is the first 3rd Party program that has failed for me.
There have been many other issues, but my programs just seem to run fine.
I know and accept the risks of running Insider Builds and am resigned to waiting for C1 to get fixed.
The thing that gets me going is when a company blames it's faithful users for a problem with the software they bought.
I'm just saying that people would probably relax if they simply said - we're working on it.
Insider Builds are Previews of what is coming. Microsoft has a very aggressive upgrade schedule these days.
The Insider Builds are not perfect - far from it. Something changed and C1 no longer starts.
Do you think that whatever changed in Windows was a mistake or do you think it will be present in the future production releases? I have little faith in Microsoft promptly addressing this issue even if it's all their fault.
It's unfortunate, but I have a feeling that C1 will need to fix this if it continues to be a problem.
Let's agree to stop shouting at each other and c'mon Phase One - look into the issue and fix it in one of your beta releases. We afflicted ones are already willing to run Beta software. It seems so easy.

Best regards,
PCH

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BeO

March 13, 2016 07:56

Hi Peter,

Whether or not P1 looks into this issue for an Insider build or for the official release or release candidate, I am very confident that P1 finally will make C1 run on Windows 10 released official versions. Everything else would be a nice bonus.

Btw, I tried to figure out whether or not a specific Insider build can become the finally release, but didn't find anything. Do you happen to know ?

Cheers,
BeO

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Christian Gruner

March 13, 2016 18:46

[quote="maryosullivan50000" wrote:
Exact same issue here.
No other programs have this problem so it seems to be a C1 issue as opposed to a windows issue. The program was probably written for an earlier version of .net Framework or something like that. Bad programming practice..

P.S.
When registering: "Please register your self"? it's YOURSELF, one word. And trying to actually register was hell!

This does not inspire confidence in your tech people.

I am sorry that our developers spend more time doing actual coding-work, than they do studying English grammar.
We are hiring new developers from time to time. You are most welcome to hand us your CV, if you think you can contribute to the future development of CO.

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Christian Gruner

March 13, 2016 18:56

[quote="Peter71" wrote:
The thing that gets me going is when a company blames it's faithful users for a problem with the software they bought.

The way I see it, CO is not the one with a problem, but Windows. If they upfront document upcoming changes (like the .NET change for Windows 10), it is of course a different story.
They are currently in a beta-mode, where things change quite a lot. Based on previous experiences with OSX and Windows pre-releases, we are not gonna change anything in CO based on an undocumented change in a beta of the OS. Worst case they could break the fix again, when they go into release.

If you running a production environment, don't run any sort of beta's, it is that simple. And if you do anyhow, be sure you can revert to a working build.

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Peter Hugger

March 14, 2016 00:01

[quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
The way I see it, CO is not the one with a problem, but Windows.

This is an unfortunate answer.
Windows does not have a problem (they likely don't care about C1 at all).
You say that C1 doesn't have a problem.
I am the one with the problem, your customer.
I can wait until this gets fixed. I also own Adobe Lightroom and it works fine.

Best regards,
PCH

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John Doe

March 14, 2016 01:14

[quote="Peter71" wrote:
[quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
The way I see it, CO is not the one with a problem, but Windows.

This is an unfortunate answer.
Windows does not have a problem (they likely don't care about C1 at all).
You say that C1 doesn't have a problem.
I am the one with the problem, your customer.
I can wait until this gets fixed. I also own Adobe Lightroom and it works fine.

Thing is, you can't expect ANY piece of software to run fine on a beta version of your OS. Could have happened with Lightroom as well, could have happened with anything.

I'm 100% with BeO and Christian on this: don't use a beta version in a production environment. Ever. Period.

The way I see it, publishers (Microsoft, Apple,... ) should never have opened betas to the general public, because now we get unjustified rants like yours, by consumers who don't really understand what a beta version is.

Just my 2 cents, no hard feelings.

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Peter Hugger

March 14, 2016 02:16

That's pretty funny.
I've gotten at least 4 emails in the past month asking me to re-join the Capture One beta program.
I've always liked Capture One and have used it since v3.
I'm not depending on it for my business. I'm an amateur.
Why antagonize your customers? Just tell us - We're aware of the issue and will look into it.

Best regards,
PCH

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don maclean

March 14, 2016 04:09

I think that this is really a non-subject as until the latest build is stable and released you should only install them, realizing they are very early betas, if you are prepared to lose everything ... programs and data. As Micosoft says at:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... p2_nav_faq

And, in no way, should you expect the software that you use to run correctly until the stable build is released.

A direct quote from Microsoft:

"Unexpected PC crashes could damage or even delete your files, so you should back up everything. Some printers and other hardware might not work, and some software might not install or work correctly, including antivirus or security programs. You might also have trouble connecting to home or corporate networks."

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BeO

March 14, 2016 07:04

[quote="Peter71" wrote:

I am the one with the problem, your customer.
I can wait until this gets fixed. I also own Adobe Lightroom and it works fine.

Peter, you should not have a problem until it is fixed by either MS or P1 because you should have a general strategy to revert back to a previous state of your operating system, not because LR works this time.

You can spend a dollar only once. Personally I'd like to see P1 development capacity rather assigned to real-world (non-beta Windows related) problems, stabilization, performance and feature enhancements, new camera and lens support etc. than on beta Windows support.

Cheers
BeO

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maryosullivan50000

March 14, 2016 19:57

[quote="BeO" wrote:

Software vendors do have all rights to define the system requirements for their software, and if this does not include beta versions of an operating system (I am tempted to say "Bad user practice..") than you have to accept that.

Programs are always written for a .net Framework version and it is the duty of Microsoft to maximise backwards compatibility of their newer .Net versions as much as possible. Your rant is inappropriate.

Fair enough.. but there's a limit to how far back they can go with backwards compatibility, old code gets deprecated eventually.

Apart from that please notice that C1 9.0.3 was released Jan. 20th and Windows Insider 14267 a month later (Feb. 18th).

And now people come here and complain and even rant about a piece of software released before the new Windows beta was even distributed that this very software version does not run on the newer Windows beta? Are you all joking??

I actually downloaded the trial V9.0.1 at the the beginning of the year, tried it for a few days, and half of the time my images wouldn't update any changes to the sliders. I came back to it a few weeks later before the end of my trial and it wouldn't even load up, hasn't loaded since, on multiple W10 beta versions. I downloaded V9.0.3 recently to see if the issue was fixed, which is why I ended up here. If the problem exists on multiple versions of Windows and no other applications then it's probably a C1 problem.

A typo in english written by a danish company and your own inability to register without selling your soul destroys your confidence in this superb raw converter? Well, I have no words...

Me neither..

Last but not least, as this is your first post (nice introduction btw. 😊) this is a user to user forum, so the pronoun "your" (tech people) is not appropriate either.

You're saying that there's no C1 tech people reading this forum?
--------
I really wanted to give C1 a go, as I've heard good things about it. A "NullReferenceException" should be a simple error to fix really, the program is trying to call something that isn't there. Maybe I'll come back to C1 in the future and see if things change..

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maryosullivan50000

March 14, 2016 20:05

[quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:

I am sorry that our developers spend more time doing actual coding-work, than they do studying English grammar.
We are hiring new developers from time to time. You are most welcome to hand us your CV, if you think you can contribute to the future development of CO.

TouchÃ©!

It was just a part of my rant really.. But you can send me on the source code if you want and I'll have a look and see if I can find the problem with the NullReferenceException in Program.Main().. 😊

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Stefan Hoffmeister

March 15, 2016 09:23

[quote="maryosullivan50000" wrote:
but there's a limit to how far back they can go with backwards compatibility, old code gets deprecated eventually.

With operating systems and serious software infrastructure that rarely, if ever, happens.

APIs are a contract. Any professional software development company will never, ever willingly break any such contract deliberately. If the contract changes, long, long lead times (years) are given to manage change on this.

Microsoft actually happens to be quite decent in managing change _in released, gold, final_ products. Their APIs are typically extremely stable (as they should be) and extremely backwards compatible (as they should be). And where this is not the case (and that is a very, very rare case), then Microsoft tends to issue decent change documentation relatively close to production release.

From a software vendor perspective (Phase One in this case), it is next to impossible to keep tracking the changes for all the software infrastructure that it builds upon. Sometimes, change is simply not taken in (do not upgrade libraries), sometimes alpha or beta release of core infrastructure are simply not supported. This is, like it or not, a result of the large set of interdependencies in today's enormously complex software world. This affects not only Phase One on Windows, but also all the music software vendors on one of Apple's latest OS refreshed. Not affected (should not), and that's funny enough, is the Linux kernel, but that's simply because the kernel API (syscalls) are totally and utterly static and even design defects are not fixable as that would change the contract.

So - Phase One has to balance between providing tracking support for random alpha and beta dumps of some libraries with an engineering cost, or to focus on adding value first and then towards the end of a dependency cycle, march towards a marriage. Every sizable software project will follow the second approach.

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BeO

March 15, 2016 10:37

Maybe it would be a good idea if P1 includes a note in their system requirements documentation which kind of Windows 10 builds are supported and which are not, so that this is crystal-clear to every user.

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SFA

March 15, 2016 12:25

[quote="BeO" wrote:
Maybe it would be a good idea if P1 includes a note in their system requirements documentation which kind of Windows 10 builds are supported and which are not, so that this is crystal-clear to every user.

I have some sympathy with this although one might assume that most users these days will be well aware (or should be) that if they head off down the pre-release software route they may face some risks to successful operations.

Adding a sentence to the requirements description might be useful for clarity so long as incremental changes (or in service fixes like patch Tuesdays) do not have to be specifically referenced. However .... who reads the requirements documents before installation?

More pertinently in this case - who reads the current requirements documentation of all of their installed software applications at whatever version they currently have installed before diving in and "testing" an OS update?

I would suggest almost nobody.

I see no problem if people wish to try a pre-release version, find a problem and report it. It may be useful - something that the developers need to be aware of and can monitor in preparation for the final release. (They may, of course, already be aware of it from internal testing - but it's a complex world of inter-relationships out there, as daffy has described, so some things may not appear in testing.)

Grant

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maryosullivan50000

March 15, 2016 22:35

[quote="daffy" wrote:

With operating systems and serious software infrastructure that rarely, if ever, happens.

Yes, true.. I suppose programs would be failing everywhere if this wasn't the case.

Since this issue has present in several W10 beta editions though, it might appear in the next build anyway. It would be nice if the C1 tech team would keep people updated on the issue.

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Capture One 9.0.3 did not start on Win 10 Insider build

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