The end times are near.
For real professional level software.
For every one real experienced full time pro buying a $150 upgrade to a true professional version, there are 10 nubys, hobbyist types paying $100 a clip for a whizbang buy your way to greatness bloated version.
Another one time true professional program dumbed down to the point of uselessness.
Sorry to be so negative but that is the way I see it. It saddens me to see my faithful steed C1-3 pimped to the point that it cannot move under its own weight.
I sure hope that there is another version coming that restores the work flow back to where I can use it to actually make a living with it again.
Back to version 3. Glad I didn't pay anything for this.
rlphoto
For every one real experienced full time pro buying a $150 upgrade to a true professional version, there are 10 nubys, hobbyist types paying $100 a clip for a whizbang buy your way to greatness bloated version.
Another one time true professional program dumbed down to the point of uselessness.
Sorry to be so negative but that is the way I see it. It saddens me to see my faithful steed C1-3 pimped to the point that it cannot move under its own weight.
I sure hope that there is another version coming that restores the work flow back to where I can use it to actually make a living with it again.
Back to version 3. Glad I didn't pay anything for this.
rlphoto
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Hello
I have processed abt 80 000 pictures in pre 4 versions from canon D30, D60 up to 1D mk2.
I have during the 4 period, since download, processed abt 1000 pictures and have, at last, found a working and nice flow, I have the feeling it is faster than before.
The keyboard shortcuts You have to adopt
=========================
- If you hold down shift, near all functions apply to all selected, if not only the current picture are affected
- ctrl-shift-F, auto adjust as a starting point
- ctrl-D develop, Ctrl-Shift-D, process all selected
- ctrl-R, reset, ctrl-shift-R reset selected
- ctrl-alt-L o R rotate, + shift selected
- ctrl-shift-A, deselect all
Workflow
========
* Do a first selection by using the new function Move To:
- Select the folder with RAW files, Right Click > Add New Folder.
- Name it appropriately (Select, Best, Keepers) and then select it, Right Click > Set as Move To Folder.
- When moving through images in the main image folder, any file can be selected and
moved to the new folder by clicking on the Move-To button or using Cmd/Ctrl J
- To see the images that have been transferred to the Move-To folder, go Library > Application Folders > Move-To Folder
This is the starting point
The workflow
========
* Select all (ctrl-A) and click on the first picture
- Set ETC color profile in Quick tab
- Set WB , if needed
- Do basic sharpen on the first picture if You prefers a global base setting
- In INFO tab, set copyright
- Copy adjustment to clip board and past to all selected (there are buttons up in the right corner)
- ctrl-shift-F, auto adjustment as a starting point
- ctrl-shift-A, deselect
-------------
* You can now work on each picture
- ctrl-D to batch process the picture
- Next picture0 -
very useful post, thank you! 0 -
I'm sorry, but that sequence just doesn't cut it IMO. Why should I have to alter my way of working to accomodate PO's lack of consideration for it's current users? It's my view that I'm a paying customer and it's PO's job to accomodate me, not vice versa. Although C4 has some great new features, the elimination of previous, extremely useful features renders it useless for my needs. I have since swapped RAW converters, but continue to check back with PO every so often to see if they will return some of the features I need in a future update.
It's my opinion that PO has severely screwed their customer base, and certainly harmed their reputation with this so-called "upgrade". Since when is decreased productivity considered an "upgrade"?0 -
I cant figure out why people complain about having to change their work flow because PO have changed the way C1 works but then go to another program completely.
Surely that involves changing your work flow as well?
Just asking, not criticizing.
Dave.0 -
Dave
I'll try to explain as I see it.
Some time ago, there were RAW convertors like DPP, Rawshooter, ACR, Capture One, Bibble, etc. These programs were (are) fairly simple in their objectives, i.e. they produced conversions of RAW files and nothing else.
Speaking personally - after having tried various apps - I used RS and C1 v3. Both of these produced high quality output and enabled quick and efficient workflow.
As time went on, the market developed and moved on at a pace. During this time, some companies improved their product, Adobe's ACR, Canon's DPP and Bibble for example. Probably even more significantly, Adobe (in response to Apple's Aperture) developed Lightroom. Now, LR in it's 1.3 form is a very important product. Now for the first time on PC, you have an app that not only does RC, but has impressive DAM functionality, a print module, automatic card downloading and a web gallery function. Not quite the total 'one stop shop' yet - as I certainly still need to use PS for various layer-related editing - but it is getting there.
Still, not everyone wants all the functionality of LR, so let's look at it's RC capabilities.
The functionality of LR's RAW conversion is immense and the flexibility of the UI is impressive. The output quality is also first class. All this is light years away from what ACR (and LR uses the ACR engine) used to be capable of.
If we look at Capture One throughout all this, I feel that Phase One has missed the boat. They had a fantastic (RC only) product in C1 v3. It was easy to use and the output quality was second to none. We (the users) waited a long long time for v4 to appear with great expectations about how v3 was going to be improved upon, and what new functionality would be incorporated bearing in mind how other apps had moved forward in the intervening period. Look what happened.
We went through a 2-phase beta period, and finally v4 was released with PO apparently ignoring all the feedback from the Windows users wrt to central cache, relative sub-folders for output, and various other v3 functions missing from v4.
This would have been almost acceptable if the product was worth waiting for, but it's not. The only addition of any significance that's been added is the HDR adjustments and that is a function that any other RC has had for some time now.
IMHO, the reasons that people are prepared to move to another app and change their workflow are:
1) there is no reason to stay with C1 at the moment because the market has moved on. At present, C1 4 is no improvement on the much older v3.
2) if you have to change workflow, then you might as well do it in an environment where there is a significant improvement in functionality and overall usefulness.
Only my 2 cents worth!
Iain0 -
What Iain said! 😁
However, in addition to what Iain mentioned, there's another, less noble reason in my particular case. I'm one of those people who will do something just on principle alone, and in this case, that plays a part in my decision to switch. I feel PO took our money, ignored our suggestions, and then basically said take it or leave it. I have no intention of being held hostage by PO.
That said, I'm not so principled that I would cut my nose off to spite my face, but in this case there are other alternatives that produce excellent conversions as well. That didn't used to be the case.
The way I look at it, if I'm going to have to change workflow, I'll do it on my terms, not PO's. I hope PO will come around and bring the program back up to par. If so, I'll consider using it again perhaps, but only if it beats what I'm now using.0 -
Well that clears that up.
I see your points so thanks for the "polite" replies 😉.
Ive posted a few time how much i like the new v4.
In fact i like it more than v3 but as it now wont run on my PC im also off back to ACR/DPP.
I dont like LR, didnt think the output was as good as DPP although its a better program. Would rather not have to use a two stage proccess as normaly i just use C1 but as this has now forced me to go elsewhere im also thinking about the principle aspect. Never had any problems with v3 but what with no manaul activation and the program just not working even though im still in the trial period im not going to spend time on it anymore.
By the way, if you use system restore on a PC with the trial not activated it gets all messed up and tells you the trial has expired. Stupid really as i dont think its even been out 30 days.
Dave.0 -
Three years ago I was attracted to C1 Pro because of the workflow. It was much quicker than ACR or Bibble, which were the only two main processors at that time. While 4.0 kind of looks the same as 3.7, the workflow is just not the same, especially in copying and applying adjustments, which for me is a major part of my workflow. If I saw 4.0 three years ago, I doubt that I would have been interested. It's now just as cumbersome as all the others.
In 3.7, if I wanted to copy and apply adjustments I would click on this, click on this and click on this. In 4.0 it's more like click on this, click on this, click on this, click on this, click on this . . and then click on this (while holding down the shift key). Just look at Roine's earlier post. Yeah, that sounds real straightforward!
4.0 has potential, but only if it transforms into something as easy and quick to use as 3.7. In its current form it is not.0 -
I was about to upgrade..I mean downgrade to C1 4 for the hdr adjustement and other things. I don't know if I should move to something else now... 0 -
[quote="dave_bass5" wrote:
I cant figure out why people complain about having to change their work flow because PO have changed the way C1 works but then go to another program completely.
Surely that involves changing your work flow as well?
Just asking, not criticizing.
Dave.
That's what came to my mind as well, Dave.
When I read all the complaints about PO forcing people to change their workflow, missing keyboard short cuts etc. I ask myself wether nobody cares about the main purpose of C1, converting raw files.
Concerning output quality C1 remains at the top.
Out of curiosity I have tried out several other raw converters but always came back to Phase One, as none of them would produce such fine results, already with standard settings.
Of course there are still some features not working bug free yet, but I'm sure most people who aren't happy at the moment will soon have forgotten 3.x once they have worked a while with 4.x
Hubert0 -
V4 is only different from 3.x.on first glance, the backbone of a very efficient workflow is carried over. And as 3.x was the last iteration of an interface introduced over 6 years ago with a minimal set of features...it's probably OK to introduce a modified interface at this point to accomodate new features. Remember that PS 7.0 was current when DSLR was introduced, and someone jumping from that to CS3 is going to spend some time learning that interface also....
You really need to work with it a while to find that being able to work selectively on files WITHIN a selected range WITHOUT deselecting that range is essential to the use of varients, and allows everything done prior plus some options one couldn't...and the fact that the behavior of 3.7 keystrokes has been modified to accomodate those new features allows you to do the things that one couldn't do with 3.7.
If at all possible, I'd like to have the central Preview folder for workfiles and previews as an option....but the number one complaint with 3.7 was slow shutdown and problems resulting from a forced shutdown before those files were completely written...and sidecar files have made shutdown a non-issue. Sometimes you get what you asked for...0 -
I don't mind a new workflow or a newer interface, even though I really like how it is in 3.7. And I don't particularly mind learning a new system. What will bother me though is if in the end it takes me longer to get through 1000+ images in a session, especially if there is not all that much gained in the process. So far that has been my experience with 4.0 . . it just takes longer. It might be a better system when working with smaller batches and you want to stop and work with variants, but after working with a few thousand images in 4.0 I am not convinced that I can work as quickly as I could in 3.7. It is actually significantly slower. I will continue to play with it and try to find ways to speed it up because I want it to work for me. But if in the end it continues to slow me down, I would rather use 3.7. 0 -
For the moment I have effectively given up on V4 until the Pro version arrives. I will use v4 to process the few shots from my P&S which produces DNG and will not be supported by 3.x.x.
I will review V4 Pro when it is available and make the decision then. Some of the important capabilities were only in Pro version anyway.
So I am looking forward to 3.7.8 very shortly as it is already available for Mac.
Judgement is reserved.0 -
[quote="mpw1950" wrote:
Some of the important capabilities were only in Pro version anyway.
Like what? (Tethering aside.)0 -
As I only ever used the Pro version (from v1.x) I am not entirely sure what was/is in but I believe: - Comprehensive IPTC editing: keywords, location etc fundamental to my workflow
large batches - LE was originally limited
renaming in situ rather than on import/process - I use it to merge images from multiple cameras in time order after an initial cull of obvious junk. This is key to my workflow.
Multiple output formats in same batch/ single process instruction
clean up of cache & previews after exit/ period(preferences etc) - I did not keep settings as part of my backup and like to control where files go
There may be other things such as incrementat rotate etc that may or may not have been in LE, may be in v4 (le).
As V4 currently does not work for me I will continue with 3.7.x until I am satisified that V4 Pro meets my needs. I am not going to waste time deciding what my workflow should be (and on what product) until the final Pro version is available - it could well change between V4 and V4 Pro so I am not going to invest effort until the finished product is in my hands.0 -
Fair enough, but the clean up of previews and settings was in LE, and I'm not sure about the limited batch processing either.
Certainly for the other 3, you'll have to wait for the Pro version. Not things that I personally ever used or miss.
Iain0 -
[quote="D2xs30" wrote:
I'm sorry, but that sequence just doesn't cut it IMO. Why should I have to alter my way of working to accomodate PO's lack of consideration for it's current users? It's my view that I'm a paying customer and it's PO's job to accomodate me, not vice versa. Although C4 has some great new features, the elimination of previous, extremely useful features renders it useless for my needs. I have since swapped RAW converters, but continue to check back with PO every so often to see if they will return some of the features I need in a future update.
It's my opinion that PO has severely screwed their customer base, and certainly harmed their reputation with this so-called "upgrade". Since when is decreased productivity considered an "upgrade"?
Amen!!!!
But the release of 4.01 and 3.7.8 (Pro ONLY) goes to show you that their arrogance has no boundaries. They're going to shove 4.x down our throats until we submit or move on.
It’s a shame.
Rob0
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