CO 4.6 Sigh....
Well, it would seem that it is still not possible to select a default ICC profile for your camera in the preferences, as in CO Pro 3.7.9. And the outstanding tool functionalities of CO Pro 3.7.9 such as the highly useful focus tool and the superb rotation tool are still not present in the current iteration. Together with many long time users who have expressed similar views on this forum, we would really like to have most of the features and functioning in CO Pro v 4+ that obtained in CO Pro 3.7.9. It would be nice to also be able to define the folders included in the template for sessions, so that we might be able to have the same template as in earlier versions without the move-to folder which I do not use. (I no longer make the request for user-friendly font sizes in the dialogue box nor do I underscore the excellent utility of the previous method of adding and removing sessions).
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Hello
You are correct that this is not possible but it is very easy (and it is the general idea) that instead of having preferences where you set all your default settings you can create styles with your default settings.
Even better is that since many customers have difference cameras, you tend also have slightly different default settings for different cameras. Well not you can create a style for each camera which can both contain a none standard ICC profiles but also slightly different sharpening values which is a great advantage compared to having a global default value which as an example might be right for you Canon 5D but not for your 5DmkII.
Styles are easily saved from the clipboard section.
Also see help file regarding this.0 -
Bring us back a real pro version please.
This program is not longer useable for professionalls.
I did hope that there are some of those features Ralph did name at least implemented in this version.. but well - sigh too.
Implementing those good working and great features is not really a huge change - the features why all did love your software.
- Focus Tool .. a real one - or at least such things like command + 0 to fit on screen and comand + alt + 0 for 100% - but bring back the old one.
- Shortcuts for image Adjustments (exposure, saturation, contrast)
- Session management - a real one like it was.
- Applying settings - why shall it be now like it is (difficult) when it was so easy before.
In total we have now a copy of Lightroom that can shoot tethered.
Before it was a great program - for capturing and a good for developing.
Now we have a horrible program for caturing and a great one in developing speed and quite greate one in developing quality..
So my question is..
Will those points ever be implemented i named - anywhen soon, or shall i start to search for alternatives? I am not about to thread - but hey - i have to work with those stuff and i am actually tired that you dont do anything for professionals.
I mean - so many people moan - and not only inside this forum. Why dont you take us serious?? Is it becouse there is no alternative right now??0 -
[quote="Ulf" wrote:
Hello
You are correct that this is not possible but it is very easy (and it is the general idea) that instead of having preferences where you set all your default settings you can create styles with your default settings.
Even better is that since many customers have difference cameras, you tend also have slightly different default settings for different cameras. Well not you can create a style for each camera which can both contain a none standard ICC profiles but also slightly different sharpening values which is a great advantage compared to having a global default value which as an example might be right for you Canon 5D but not for your 5DmkII.
Styles are easily saved from the clipboard section.
Also see help file regarding this.
While I appreciate your response, it only partially addresses my observations above and of course completely fails to take into account previous postings which more extensively listed reservations in regard to CO Pro v4+ when compared to v 3.7.9. Naturally, earlier I also emphasized the improvements in conversion quality and processing speed of the present version, but I am not alone in regretting that this has been obtained while sacrificing the user friendliness and far better workflow of versions up to and including 3.7.9. In essence, this condemns users to resorting to 3.7.9 for making selects with readily made and serviceable default configurations set in the preferences (such as ICC profile), using there the more useful focus tool (among others), and then processing in CO Pro v4.6, although there it is still not possible (unlike v 3.7.9) to access fields and change numerical values from the keyboard using the up and down arrows. Ultimately, this condemns them to seeking alternative conversion software , much to their regret, when their camera body is not supported in CO Pro v3.7.9.0 -
Some will agree some will not but of course we hear you and your input is valid and considered.
At the same time if you want to be critical make sure that you know exactly how the program works, I would personally be a little more humble in my approach.
As an example there is shortcuts for viewer zoom. They are also editable so you can change them to any key you like.
Session management is there but with a much better browser. Some short cuts could be added to easier create + add to favorites and as you say to some of the sliders. However never the less much of it is there.
With modification done to 4.6 you can have Capture One 4.6 behaving almost exactly the same way as 3.7.x
1. Make sure "Edit primary only" is turned of
2. In clipboard, under small dropdown at the top of the tool. Turn of "Auto select adjusted"
3. The drag cliboard out as a floating.
By using the copy / apply on floating window you are using exact the amount of effort as you did in previous version.
This can also be done by editable keyboard shortcuts as well.
Everything is not done, nor will it ever be done, the wish list is long and there is much that needs to be implemented.
As I have mentioned before, Capture One 4 has evolved in a much faster pace then Capture One 3 did. The rate of customers converting to Capture One 4 has been much faster then the conversion from Capture One 2.9 to 3.0 due to it has matured to production ready much faster then Capture One 3 did.
Capture One 3.7.9 is a excellent piece of software and all ready now Capture One 4.x is better in many ways. There is small but vital things that is missing. They might be important for some but by far not all users. Soon enough those last bits in pieces will be in it and then this discussion will be long gone and forgotten much like the discussions we had around Capture One 3.0 when it first was released which later evolved and was and is loved by many.0 -
[quote="Ulf" wrote:
Some will agree some will not but of course we hear you and your input is valid and considered.
At the same time if you want to be critical make sure that you know exactly how the program works, I would personally be a little more humble in my approach.
As an example there is shortcuts for viewer zoom. They are also editable so you can change them to any key you like.
Session management is there but with a much better browser. Some short cuts could be added to easier create + add to favorites and as you say to some of the sliders. However never the less much of it is there.
With modification done to 4.6 you can have Capture One 4.6 behaving almost exactly the same way as 3.7.x
1. Make sure "Edit primary only" is turned of
2. In clipboard, under small dropdown at the top of the tool. Turn of "Auto select adjusted"
3. The drag cliboard out as a floating.
By using the copy / apply on floating window you are using exact the amount of effort as you did in previous version.
This can also be done by editable keyboard shortcuts as well.
Everything is not done, nor will it ever be done, the wish list is long and there is much that needs to be implemented.
As I have mentioned before, Capture One 4 has evolved in a much faster pace then Capture One 3 did. The rate of customers converting to Capture One 4 has been much faster then the conversion from Capture One 2.9 to 3.0 due to it has matured to production ready much faster then Capture One 3 did.
Capture One 3.7.9 is a excellent piece of software and all ready now Capture One 4.x is better in many ways. There is small but vital things that is missing. They might be important for some but by far not all users. Soon enough those last bits in pieces will be in it and then this discussion will be long gone and forgotten much like the discussions we had around Capture One 3.0 when it first was released which later evolved and was and is loved by many.
Dear Ulf - thank you for informing me to stay humble. Maybe consider that after month whaiting for the promised c14 pro version (was over a year annouced - right??) people are a bit nerved when again some important things are not implemented.
*Shortcuts for viewer zoom..
Well - but they only work if you are in the right shortcut edit menue.. so i have to switch back and forward. Not really a good workflow possible that way.
Why cant we have a normal focus screen like we had before? It was great.
*You cant say that apply settings is like the same as in 3.7.x..
It was great to choose either to use the settings of just one tab (focus, exposure, whiteblance) or all settings just by clicking one arrow. It was great to get that popup window where you could tick single settings out or on.
*Switching to different setting tabs over shortcuts like in 3.7.x would be great alike.
Made the capture workflow so fast - ontime control is so important without moving your mouse etc.
Comparing the c1 3.0 realease with the 4.0 release is not really legit as now almost everybody shoots digital while at that realease only a few did.
Right now you changed a fully great working software and all its features completly and i really do not know a single user personally that is happy with those changes aside from developing speed and the two aditional adjustment controls (shadows/highlights).
Dont get me wrong - i really appreciate the faster developing speed and i am happy that the pictures look more like what i did adjust when i open them in photoshop now (density, color and alike)
Thank you very much for reading.
Daniel0 -
I shall assume that the less than flattering elements of your most recent reply were directed to the other poster on this thread. I do agree that CO Pro 3.7.9 is very good software (if now lagging in development) and would hope that its central features, functionalities and tools will soon be available in a future release of CO 4.6+ that obviates the necessity of the implementation of many workarounds to once more find the excellent previous workflow of C0 Pro. Indeed, if it is so very good, it seems logical that this feature set should have been incorporated 'en bloc' into the current iteration. 0 -
Dear Ulf,
could we please have a "select/deselect all" button.
in the adjustments clipboard. This would have been a good idea already in CO 3.X and even more so in the new version.
Your lovely Danish competitors from Hasslblad had this button already in ancient versions of FlexColor and it still works in Phocus.
I still find myself far too much clicking around and deselecting stuff that I don't want to apply.
I think a major priorty for phase and the next update of 4.6 should be the use of arrow keys in any box with numbers. I don't even understand why this needs to be discussed. It should have been there right from the beginning. Arrow-UP takes it up 1 and SHIFT-Arrow-UP takes it up 10. Just like in photoshop. Personally I think everyone wants that!
It works so nicely on curve points (move them with the arrow keys and optionally shift)
why not in any box with numbers in the whole program!?
Secondly I thing the priority of the rating system should definitely by on the colors (including good shortcuts) and not on that silly star system!!
I have posted the same already in a different thread but here again:
In a world full of numbers and letters and symbols how nice is it to tag things by color. Workflowise it's by far superior to stars or anything else. Make the shortcut nice and easy - green - PLUS-button, red - MINUS-button and so on, just like in CO 3.X
In fact I found the color tag system in CO 3.X so perfect I never ever used the numbers - 1-9.
It's all about visibility guys!
thanks for listening!0 -
Now this is a very good discussion.
Lets start from the back.
Klaus
Regarding select/deselect. I think that if you just change to unselect "Auto select adjusted" you are good way there.
Regarding arrow keys, not a discussion, has to be implemented.
Color rating is implemented fully and color rating shortcuts can be edited in the keyboard shortcut editor. Before you had three colours, now you have many!
Start rating is also there because it has become a industry standard. use it if you want or use colour rating.
Ralph
It is a work in progress. Rome was not built in one day and where are getting there.
Just keep in mind that our product managers are trying really hard to balance feature on market request, what is important to you might not be important to the next person. I believe they are doing a very good job on something that is very extremely hard.
Daniel
I believe the 3.0 launch and 4.0 launch is a valid comparison since back then everyone that used our program was digital! Granted that there was not 35mm support until 3.1 (Only Canon 1D and 1Ds) and the segment of photographers we worked with back then was the very top end but this does not change the needs.
I have worked with many digital tech and to my experience there is much that just has to be taught on how it is different. There is much place for improvement, of course, but which software is ever "complete"?
The more "complete" as software is, the more complected it is as well.
The question is more, does it fur fill the needs of the specific user.
In some cases the answer is yes, in other cases no.
Next situation is that if you have a new user of the software it might fur fill the user now but in 2 months it might not since we as people evolve our skill levels constantly.
In my position at Phase One I have the great pleasure of getting information about and contributing to road maps.
And trust me, there is fantastic things to come. 💡
As you say the original CO 4 release was delayed but at the same time, by delaying it was have now a fantastic foundation to develop on and this is why we can release new versions with new features and new camera support so much faster then ever before.
I hope you will enjoy the ride, because I sure will! 😄0 -
I just can say - i hope so alike.. haha.
Right now the needs i have are not quite there. I dont mind getting in touch and used to a new software, and i know and understand that some things are more important for you than others like nikon tethered support or P65+ support.
Image devolopment quality is of course number one priority for a converter.
All that things named above war at least for my and some others i know essential for fast and accurate work on set. One of the reason why i do get booked. And actually time is really money in our business.
Right now it is for me like i am a roofer but i have to use a rubber headed mallet to push nails in the roof joists. Somehow i do get the nails in - but not as easy as i was used to.
And i hope you guys do not forget that many did choose your software becouse it was state of the art. And that some did buy your digital backs becouse of your software.. right now i would say that almost all DB devolopers (well the important ones) are all ok - not that i will downgrade Phase One Backs.. you are still my first choice.
I am happy that i can still use 3.7.9 for digital back shots.
Once again here are the things that really need to be improoved in my opinion:
-Session Managment - the old one was perfect (assigning capture folders etc etc)
-Focus Tool
-Shortcuts for adjustments
-Applying adjustments management (a pop up window instead of a tab would be great that you dont have to switch tabs to check what you would like to apply)
and those applying adjustment arrows for each tab alike (pop up window alike !!!!)
There are a lot minor changes i would love to become back alike that i and my customers did become used to - but well, we can live with that (old tagging management and so on) i guess.
Command + Z and Variants are a good ad. Variants was easy to create before (show image in finder over right mouse key and duplicate) but command +z .. Finally - thanks.
Oh and finally - you did say something really true.. The old version was easy - and the new one is more complicated 😉 Everybody could use it after just a couple mins. Easy and logic.. that is the key to fast work.0 -
Thank you very much for having taken the time to reply once again.
If I may also indicate that the previous functioning of the Rotation Tool (in v 3.7.9) is something that is sorely missed: double-clicking on the rotation tool icon in the main window brought up a dialogue box that allowed rotation by small increments through clicking on the up and down arrows. This permitted me to effect more subtle changes in image orientation and with greater finesse and speed then at present.0 -
Hey Ralph,
are you looking for the rotation tool in the crop Tab ?
Small increment can be achieved using the mouse wheel.
(yes, you have to use a mouse 🙄 )
Or are you looking for something else ?0 -
Good to know, thanks, but what I'm interested in is just as indicated above. 0 -
Dear Ulf,
thank you very much for your detailed reply. This forum is very helpful und productive.
I forgot to mention one thing that I'm terribly missing in Capture One Pro 4.x. It's the ability to apple a curve move on an individual channel. On a lot of my shoots this is absolutely essential. I mean the color editor / color balance windows are all very useful features but it simply doesnt give me the same control as a simple S-curve on the blue channel for instance. I do that all the time - warming up the highlights and cooling down the shadows.
I admit it might be a feature that not a lot of people are using as you should really know what you are doing but I'm off to Italy tomorrow for a 6 days shoot and it's now the second time that I'm simply forced to go back to 3.7.9 because I can't apply a curve to an individual channel. Which is a real shame as I'm very much used to the new version by now and it's grown on me and I actually want to use it.
So as far as I'm concerned please make the arrow keys work in any box with numbers and give me individual channels back in the curve window (and possible levels). That's my main priority!
All the best from London
Klaus0 -
[quote="Klaus" wrote:
Dear Ulf,
thank you very much for your detailed reply. This forum is very helpful und productive.
I forgot to mention one thing that I'm terribly missing in Capture One Pro 4.x. It's the ability to apple a curve move on an individual channel. On a lot of my shoots this is absolutely essential. I mean the color editor / color balance windows are all very useful features but it simply doesnt give me the same control as a simple S-curve on the blue channel for instance. I do that all the time - warming up the highlights and cooling down the shadows.
I admit it might be a feature that not a lot of people are using as you should really know what you are doing but I'm off to Italy tomorrow for a 6 days shoot and it's now the second time that I'm simply forced to go back to 3.7.9 because I can't apply a curve to an individual channel. Which is a real shame as I'm very much used to the new version by now and it's grown on me and I actually want to use it.
So as far as I'm concerned please make the arrow keys work in any box with numbers and give me individual channels back in the curve window (and possible levels). That's my main priority!
All the best from London
Klaus
I would love that alike.
It is essential!0 -
It would appear that there is a persistent glitch in the file brwoser when set to auto mode. When examining the photos of a folder for selects using the keyboard to navigate through the images, the browser always returns to the initial photo of the folder (although this does not affect the image in the main viewer window). This is problematic as one must always navigate down through the images via the browser to get to images in the vicinity of the one that was under examination (for comparison purposes, for instance). This behavior does not occur in Capture One Pro v 3.7.9, and it would be nice if the functioning of the file browser observed there would be restored, at least as concerns this parameter. 0
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