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DNG with or without embedded native raw file?

alfin
In Capture One release notes it says:

"Capture One has the ability to treat and display camera files that were converted to DNG, as if it was the original RAW. The file in question has to come from a camera we officially support with native RAW support and the RAW data also needs to have been embedded in the DNG at the point of conversion. Note we do not support Adobe Lens or Color Profiles in this workflow."

I've tested to convert Canon, Sony and Fuji files converted to DNG with and without embedded native raw file and there are no differences in Capture One or in the exported jpegs.

Why does the release note say "...and the RAW data also needs to have been embedded in the DNG at the point of conversion."? What am I missing?
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Comments

7 comments

Date Votes
  • Denis Mortell
    I don’t think you’re missing anything.

    If you convert to .dng before editing, then the .dng will just contain the captured data, which I presume is all you want.

    Correct?

    D.
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  • alfin
    If you convert a raw file with Adobe DNG Converter, you have the option to embed the original raw file into the DNG. That makes of course the DNG file twice the size. Reading the release notes, I thought it was a prerequisite for DNG handling in Capture One, but when I try a DNG without embedded raw file, it still works the same way and the result is equal.

    Apparently, one does not need to embed the native raw file at the DNG conversion to allow Capture One to properly manage the DNG file, so I don't understand why it says so in the release notes. I thought maybe someone here knew.
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  • SFA
    My interpretation of the section quoted is that if you DO NOT embed the original RAW file you get a DNG conversion that is processed for what it is as it has been converted. So the ICC profile would, by default, be the Adobe>DNG profile>

    IF, however, you embed the original RAW in the DNG file and some point in the process, Capture One can ALSO process the file AS A RAW with C1's original camera Profile(s) not just the results of the DNG conversion.

    How useful that is will, presumably, entirely depend on your starting point and which application created the DNG file.

    If anyone reads the quoted advice differently it would be good to point that out in a comment.


    Grant
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  • Permanently deleted user
    In my experience, embedded native raw or not, makes no difference at all.

    You do lose white balance modes and manufacturer lens data in either case, however (if nothing else).
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  • OddS.
    [quote="gusferlizi" wrote:
    ...You do lose white balance modes...


    This reminds me of a point I never bothered to fully check out: Does conversion to DNG means a "linear" DNG?
    If yes, some may want to embed the raw file (or keep a copy of it) for potential future access to the original matrix data (Bayer or other).
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  • alfin
    No, it is not linear DNGs I have converted. All those options are however available in Adobe DNG Converter.

    Capture One will recognize the correct camera used, as long as its native raw format is supported, regardless whether the original raw file is embedded or not. White balance 'as shot' figures are different compared to the original raw file, but it looks exactly the same on screen and I assume it is correct.

    Fuji and Sony have lens profile data as metadata, and hence Capture One shows "Manufacturing Profile" under Lens Profile. Actually, the DNG files in case of Fuji are better corrected for distortion than the native raw file in Capture One. Capture One overcorrect some of the Fuji lenses (e.g. 35/2) where Adobe converted DNGs are more accurate. All of them can be adjusted in Capture One with the distortion slider, so it is not a big problem.

    Canon files behave differently. Native CR2 files and DNGs with or without embedded raw file recognize the camera model and assign the correct ICC profile. Lens profile, in this case Canon 24-105/4, is shown for CR2, but all DNGs show Lens Profile 'Generic'. However, they look exactly the same on screen, so maybe Adobe already has applied its lens profile during conversion to DNG.

    Regardless, my conclusion stands. There is no need to embed any native raw file in an Adobe DNG Converter conversion, at least not for the three cameras I have tested, unless I am missing something obvious.
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  • OddS.
    [quote="alfin" wrote:
    No, it is not linear DNGs I have converted. All those options are however available in Adobe DNG Converter.


    Thank you for the clarification.
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