Black areas while working on B/W scanned images
I have been processing a collection of old negatives for the past two years, so far I have processed about 4500 with no problem. since updating to CaptureOne20.Win.13.1.2.35 when I zoom into the image I get black areas appearing on the image, not every image has this happening but when it does I have tried logging out and even reloading the software but to no avail, it is very strange as it has never happened till the upgrade. Any ideas out there
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Assuming the Preference settings for "Use Hardware Acceleration" are set to "Auto" AND that you see an indication that it is active, change them to "None", restart C1 and check to see if it makes any difference.
If it does make a difference there are some other quick experiments that can be tried to assess whether things can be improved.
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I have just tried that but no change, I am using a Radeon Pro WX 7100 which is a pretty stable GPU and I have been using it for a year with no problems
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I have been doing some tests and it now seems that it occurs when I introduce a heal layer and it does not happen with every image.
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Sounds like it's time to use the "Submit a request" function and create a Support Case for the Capture One support team to investigate.
I think this may have been seen, in one form or another, before so the more examples investigated the better the chance of pinning down the root cause and finding a solid solution. Especially true when the problems to not appear with every image even when using the same editing.
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Ok that is fine, I will do that this evening, is there anything I should know about the procedure or is it quite straight forward and by the way thank you for your help, I have to say I have been using C1 since 2015 and this is the first thing that has cropped up that I couldn't solve.
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Hi SFA, a question or two actually, is your name Grant and are you a moderator or user, just for my info
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Hi Michael,
Yes to the name. But there are a few Grants around.
I'm just a user. No affiliation with Capture One other than that and, along with many others, beta testing from time to time.
I think moderation is handled entirely internally at Capture One.
This evolution of the forum seems to have more regular monitoring than one could previously observe in earlier iterations and there are certain sections and threads that are clearly "official" but there is no intention, so far as I am aware, to deliver dedicated personalised Technical Support via the forum. Guidance, especially where it is to some existing documentation where available, can be offered and is welcome but for personalised support you need a Support Case which is managed via email.
I think the procedure is intended to be self guiding and in general it is. You may want the "Technical" section or "Other". I used "Technical" for something last week and that seemed to get to the right place!
It may be worth sending the log files since you will be asked for them anyway in this case I think. Maybe also a sample file. Original plus edits "packed" as an EIP file would be the most useful option. That way the entire problem image and process can be forwarded.
If there is something that would be considered useful that you do not include they will ask for it and explain how to get it (assuming it is technical information or similar.)
The "healing" process was changed from the 13.1 build. Does your problem date from around the time you updated to the 13.1 build? Or maybe the 13.1.2 build?
Alternatively a Windows update of some sort?
With luck the log files will offer some information in that regard.
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Hi Grant
Thanks for the info, the forum does seem to perform very well and I do peruse it from time to time just to glean some insight as regards the software, it is not really my speciality although I have been building my own computers since 1980's I have found software has reached levels that few of us can comprehend so I just use it for whatever and then try to fix problems or go to forums such as this, I do build my PCs to a very high spec and mostly just for image manipulation, hence the GPU I am using now, most GPUs are geared to gamers which is fine for video work but not always aligned for photographic work.
I digress, I have sent in a Support Request to the Technical Section and attached two screen grabs but omitted the log files, I could send them now but I may just wait to see what else they may require.
The problem was not around till 13.1.2 build as far as I can remember and the other thing is that I updated Windows to the 2004 build and looking at some of the feedback on the net that could also be contributing.
As I have scanned about half of the negatives, I have about 10,000 to do in total, I would like to get on with it but I don't want to have a built in problem with any of the images so I guess I will just have do other stuff till its sorted.
Thanks for your help and I will keep you abreast of the proceedings or outcome
Mike
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Hi Michael,
There is a specific log file for the ever repeating (in case the system configuration has changed between C1 start ups) OpenCL capability assessment. It might be worth taking a quick look to see if anything odd looking is being reported. Also whether the results are different now compared to before the last C1 or Win10 update.
A bit of a long shot perhaps but would not take long to look. If you are OK with reading log files. Sounds like you probably are!
I am still using Win 7. It may be old, as is the computer it runs on, but at least no-one is messing with it any more so, warts and all, it at least offers some stability for the time being.
Obviously sometime soon I will probably have to reconsider that position but for now I can live with it.
I think.
Meanwhile one of the benefits of Windows over Mac is that you at least have the option to search around and dig out any revised GPU driver program updates. Although your earlier reply suggests that's not a factor there might still be some benefit from knowing if there is an update and, better still, whether people think it works!
Also, if you want to carry on with the project without waiting for a "fix" you could probably revert to the earlier release if you had 13.1.1 installed and that worked.
If you previous work was undertaken before 13.1 that might be a bit trickier, although if you don't need the new features of 13.1 there may be some decent options available for reverting for a while and reconsidering the update later, after investigation is complete and solution found.
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Hi Grant
I have received an email from the support team asking various things and I have sent them my Logs plus System Profile and you would not believe it, they asked me to screen recording of the problem and when I set it up I could not replicate it even with the images I had the problem with yesterday, so typical, I did tell them and said I will try again later but that really is so annoying, sods law we call it.
Regards your email, I understand you keeping with win 7 but I have used Win 10 since the beta versions and touch wood I have found it to be excellent, however, I have read and heard some pretty bad reports about the 2004 update, they spent a long time getting it right but it still has serious bugs that even MS admit to, personally I used Win NT until they stopped support, it ran PS perfectly without all the rubbish they put in now.
I have checked all the GPU updates and one of the things about using the Radeon Pro range is they only issue updates every quarter and I have just had the latest version.
I could roll back on C1 but I will probably leave it while they are checking it and get on with my scanning and RAW images I haven't sorted yet.
Anyway thanks for the input and stay safe
Regards Mike
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Hi Mike,
Hmm. Sod's law is a pretty sneaky old thing! ;)
Sometimes new drivers are not good news and reversion to a previous iteration can help. However in this case if the new driver is recent is here any possibility it has only just been installed on your machine? Or more specifically the effects of the update have only just been taken up within C1 and, perhaps, helped to avoid whatever the previous Win/C1 configuration had a problem with?
There are a lot of "temporary work" and "individual user settings" files involved in systems these days and thus a lot of opportunities for a small glitch to arise and be perpetuated, possibly erratically, for a while before disappearing.
This would be easy to discuss but laborious to write about.
As an example my system has some Intel CPU OpenCL capability but not enough for C1 to assess as being of any use. It also has a low powere independent Nvidia GPU which is considered just about powerful enough to be usable.
When C1 starts up is will check for devices for OpenCL use. If nothing has changed it uses what it knowns about. If you instal and update it will usually run the re-assessment anyway. For devices deemed usable it will build a kernel using the GPU driver and bits of Windows and C1 code to optimise things as far as possible.
Now on my system the first device(0) is the Intel built in OpenCL engine which will be rejected and the second (1) is the Nvidia GPU.
So C1's program sets off assessing device 0 and gets to 93% complete, has a problem with something that appears to be related to Windows supplied code but might be Intel, and crashes the assessment routine.
Device 1's assessment is following along behind and, of course, never finishes because the process has crashed.
C1 reports this as Hardware Acceleration not working and carries on. The difference in performance in this machine is not really noticeable.
If I then close and restart C1 at some point (I usually just leave stuff running) the re-assessment is run again because C1 rediscovers the GPU card and has no kernel for it or even a record if if having been previously assessed.
Device 0 is known to be not working as it failed the test previously, so that is ignored. Device 1 can now be tested, the assessment is successful and OpenCL processing is activated.
That's just one example of the sort of potential for anomalies to appear.
I tend to create a new folder for each update rather than overwrite and existing installation. That was I use a lot of disk space but it's easy to revert to a known good installation in a hurry if necessary. Dear old Sod, as mentioned above, would probably have a field day if I did things differently now! ;)
In the case described above that means I needs to fire up C1 twice after the installation in order to get Hardware Acceleration working. It adds a couple of minutes to the task but that is not the end of the world. It also means I have something to refer to to see it anything new seems to be happening and then wonder why that might be.
It's just possible that your system, somewhere along the line, is also "tidying up" previous settings and temporary processing files that could just maybe cause the odd unexplained and inconsistent error.
I suspect, for example, that the temporary files in complex systems these days may have some "cascading" dependencies that mean any "cleaning up" activities, unless cleverly recursive , might not get rid of all mismatched work sets in a single pass.
I have taken to restarting Windows 2 or even 3 times before opening any applications is one of the application has had a crash. The idea is to give Windows more than one chance to decide whether apparently orphaned work files can be safely deleted.
Whether it makes any sense I don't honestly know, but it does seem to result in smooth running once again if I do it - which is not always the case if I don't.
I think you are right to carry on and possibly even update to the 13.1.3 build. So long as there is no significant new functionality that requires changes to the edit info data structure, as in the case of most "dot" releases for maintenance, there is a good chance that the work done should be accessible from a previous release within the same version.
That said I'm not sure that 13.1.x reverting to 13.0.x would be problem free.There were some significant changes at that point. However it might be OK in some circumstances.
I hope the anomaly is permanently resolved so that you can press on with the project.
I can't imagine trying to scan 10k images. I did about 150 a few years ago and that was enough. That said the tech has moved on although I'm not sure that flatbed scanners have. I think they had probably reached their optimum capability back then for the source materials being put thought them. Maybe not for extreme fine art subject matter but in any case these days repro with a digital camera in a decent set up is probably the way to go.
Writing that reminds me that I have a few boxes of 35mm slide to assess if I get my act together and sort out some consistent and usable lighting.
At least that would be a fairly safe winter project in this time of madness, though I suspect that most of the slides are either beyond recovery or not worth the effort.
All the best,
Grant
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Hi Grant
To get you up to date, the support team sent me an email acknowledging the files, asking me for a couple of the image files and giving me a link to the C1 13.1.3 update, which I have downloaded and I told them that I now have a new update for my GPU and I intend over the weekend to stagger the updates and test as I go.
I have made it my policy that whenever I have had two updates to my software I completely strip it from my PC and do a complete fresh install with the latest update, this is what I will do with the C1 and AMD updates.
Just to go back to the Win 10 discussion, last week I installed Win 10 on my old Laptop a Dell Studio 15 which is 12 years old and so far it is running without any problems, not bad for a machine with that old spec, so I think you should give it a try when you get the chance.
I think you are probably right about the tidying up business, windows does leave stuff all over the place, I personally clean my system hard drive once every year and do a complete install of every piece of software and it is amazing how much free space suddenly appears.
Anyway I will now see what happens and report back to the team.
As far as the scanning is concerned, I have been scanning negatives for quite a while, mostly my own, but when I moved here to Slovakia with my wife I discovered that her grandfather was a very prominent photographer and writer from 1930's to 1984 when he died and in the basement of the family home were al his negatives between 8000-10000, in metal boxes which had not helped the condition plus there were no dates or details of the majority, I originally started to scan them in 2011 and did about 4000, I was then using a Epson V700, various scanning programs and processing them with LR and PS which was quite hard work, you can read about them on the website I set up for him if you are interested it is https://www.milansaradin.com/ , I am not sure how much is allowed to be discussed on this forum.Five years ago I started using C1 and it was not long before I realised that it would be ideal for the scans, I now use an Epson V800 which is excellent, Silverfast which is the best I have used and C1 to do all the processing, I scan everything color or B/W in RGB and it produces the best results, I started scanning the collection again in April last year and I am still going and to date I have done 4500, I could go on about loads of great things to do with C1 but the best update item has been the Heal Brush, many of the negatives have water or chemical marks, plus bad scratches and this tool makes it so easy to sort out.
I think since 2018 I have processed around 15000 negatives and I am still learning but be under no illusion C1 has made my life so much easier, plus I have a really powerful PC which I built to my spec this year which eats through work with no effort.
Anyway, I have rambled along enough and if anyone who reads this would like to know about my set up they can let me know and I will fill them in, the only good side of the Covid business has been the time I have had to do more work on the photography side although I am happily retired and this is much quieter than the UK.
Hope you have a good weekend and I will let you know how the updating goes tomorrow
Best regards Mike
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