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Outputed Tiff images have adjustment points in red channel.

gb
  • Edited

Just noticed that any Tiff file I export in C1 has four adjustment points on the red channel curve when viewed in C1. This happens using either ProPhoto or Adobe RGB color spaces (haven't tested any others).

There are no control points on the green or blue channels with the these Tiffs.
There are no control points on any channel with PSD or Jpeg exports.

Looking at the grey patches of an Xrite color checker image this red curve adjustment makes the output less accurate than it would be without the adjustment. The adjustment points can be removed by dragging them off the graph but if you hit the reset icon they reappear. Even when you remove the points the grey patches are more neutral on a PSD than a Tiff.

The In/Out values of the curve points are: 9/0, 82/82, 182/177, 255/250

I'm using C1 Pro for Sony 13.1.2.35

So anyone else seeing this?

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Comments

13 comments

Date Votes
  • SFA
    • Edited

    What are the export settings (Output Recipe?) for the creation of the TIFF files?

    In particular what value do you have in the ICC profile field?

    What proof profile do you have set when viewing in C1?

    Does the same anomaly appear between the files when you view through external viewers?

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  • gb
    • Edited

    Export settings for Tiff ProPhoto images are:
    TIFF/16Bit/Uncompressed/ICC ProPhoto RGB/300px/in/Scale Fixed 100%/Open With None.
    Adjustments= Respect Crop/No output sharpening.

    Proof file set to ProPhoto RGB in View menu.

    In Photoshop the red channel curve is straight (as are the Blue-Green) as expected.

    What's interesting is that the color checker grey patches measured in PS are more neutral than what C1 shows them to be.

    Looking at a C1 exported Tiff image of the six grey patches of an Xrite Color Checker in Photoshop, PS measures:
    235/237/237--206/209/209--163/165/165--105/106/106--53/53/54--20/20/20
    While the same Tiff image sitting in the C1 output folder with the C1 altered red curve the C1 values are:
    229/236/240--199/207/212--161/166/170--106/106/108--52/55/57--13/20/18.

    Looks like C1 is trying to mess up it's own export.

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  • gb

    Just looked at my Fuji camera Tiff exports in my old copy of C1 11 Pro and the red channel curve control points are there as well.

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  • Bram Vreven

    I exported a tiff, and imported it in C1. All curves are flat in my case. It is not clear to me how there
    can be control-points in the curve of an imported TIFF anyway. Does C1 defines these curve-points
    as a layer when exporting a Tiff? And can C1 import this layer and convert it to it`s own curve?

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  • gb
    • Edited

    Bran thanks for looking into this.

    I’m not referring to an exported/imported tiff but to an exported tiff only.

    So I’m just exporting a raw file as a tiff into the C1 output folder and then looking at the tiff’s C1 red channel curve there.

    The curve would not be a layer but is just being actively applied by C1.

    Looking at the tiff in any other program I do not see the effects of this adjustment.

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  • SFA

    gb

     

    Are you looking at the exported tiff using C1 (Session)  or another application?

     

    Reading above is suggests you are looking at the exported tiff in Photoshop (where it is OK?) and then opening in it Capture One (more than one version?) and seeing the same tiff with a shift in the red channel.

    Is that how it is? If so you are, in effect, "importing" it into C1 as far as what C1 is concerned. By which I mean C1 will have opened up the file and generated thumbnails and preview for it and possibly made some other interpretations.

     

    If you have "round tripped" it into a catalogue then there will have been no "import" action to undertake but the file will in effect have been "imported" anyway.

    If you can open it in V11 it suggests you might have used a V11 session or have in some other way made it available to a V11 catalog.

     

    Are you seeing this with all exported TIFF files or only specific files?

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  • gb
    • Edited

    Hi SFA.

    No, there is no round trip or re-importing involved here.

    I’m just exporting a raw file as a tiff into the C1 output folder and then looking at the tiff’s C1 red channel curve in C1 with the C1 Curve tool.

    This is not just happening to one file but seems to have happened to every tiff I have exported both from C1 Pro 20 (Sony) and C1 Pro Eleven Full Version, and most of the C1 Pro ll files are Fuji images.

    For my own sanity ( :) ) I just need someone else to open the C1 Curve tool and look at the red channel of some of their exported tiff files sitting in the C1 Output folder.

    Thanks.

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  • SFA

    Can you share an example of a problem image so that others can advise whether they see the same problem?

    If you are opening the tiff in C1 it will be subject to possible processing in C1 - for example for some default settings perhaps.

    In order to ascertain where the apparent adjustment comes from you need to assess whether and why some changes may be applied.

    Another option for checking might be to open the Adjustment Clipboard tool and copy all possible adjustments from a problem Tiff file to see what C1 is seeing as adjustments. If anything.

     

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  • gb

    Hi SFA.

    No there are no adjustments showing in the Adjustments Clipboard tool.

    Can you confirm that you don't see any red curve control points with your own Tiffs?

    Thanks.

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  • SFA
    • Edited

    No adjustments on the test tiff I just created. (Using Adobe RGB for the output recipe).

     

    C1 full Pro 13.1.2.35

     

    Windows 7 Pro.

     

    What are the values showing in the Base Characteristics tool?

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  • SFA

    gb,

    I keep wondering whether at some point in the past you may have used the curve adjustment you have mentioned on another file and then made it a Default Preset to be applied to Tiff files, perhaps without noticing that had happened?

    You could check that by opening the Styles and Presets tool and checking to see if the problem image lists any styles or presets already applied in the section at the top of the tool.

     

    If not that then I suppose it might be possible to achieve a re caste some other way - ICC profile for example - but that would not explain you red curve with 4 selection points.

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  • gb
    • Edited

    Hi Paul.

    Steps to reproduce:

    Session based workflow.
    Select any raw file in C1 Capture folder.
    Export that RAW as Tiff to C1 Output folder.
    Open C1 Output folder with C1.
    Select that Tiff in C1.
    Open C1 Curves tool and inspect the Red channel curve for the Tiff.
    Look for control points on curve.

    My export settings for Tiff ProPhoto images are:
    TIFF/16Bit/Uncompressed/ICC ProPhoto RGB/300px/in/Scale Fixed 100%/Open With None.
    Adjustments= Respect Crop/No output sharpening.

    Hi SFA.

    No presets or Styles are showing as being applied to the RAW or the resultant Tiff according to the Styles and Presets tool.

    The outputted Tiff file base characteristics are ICC-From File ("ICC Profile")
    Curve - Auto, Engine Capture One 20

    Thanks both.

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  • gb

    Ok, got it figured out.

    Somehow I had changed the default red curve values for tiff files in the Curve tool.
    It's a bit hard to spot a change in that Curve tool "three dot menu" unlike the Preset menu where the named user preset is shown.

    Also a mystery how the same thing showed in C1 Eleven.

    Anyway thanks for putting in the time on this one.

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