Capture one 21

Comments

26 comments

  • Doug Hamilton

    I fully agree, Peter.

    I love Capture One and have been a loyal user since Version 8 but why would I even consider pre-ordering a product when I have zero information about the new features and the so-called “game-changing tools” of the upgrade? I would be tempted even if CO provided a static list of the new features but until I see anything that gives me a modicum of insight: No thanks. 
     
    CO: Please provide this feedback to your marketing folks. From the looks of the buzz in social media, I’m not the only one put off by this misguided promotional effort. Shame on CO for taking my loyalty for granted, especially at a $200+ CDN upgrade price. If I was working in promotions at CO, I would be very mindful of the fact that the post-processing field is getting way more crowded these days as other applications catch up to LR and CO and, thus, wouldn't be messing with customer loyalty issues. 
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  • Andre Nogueira

    It's like gambling.

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  • utility image

    The upgrade price is $200 bucks? That is pretty intense. The last update was April of 2019 if my records are correct. That's about $10 bucks a month to stay current. That does not stack up all that well against Lightroom + Photoshop with a Gig of online storage from Adobe for $10 bucks USD. In fact, I would say that it is a bad value considering that my lens profiles are still unavailable two years later. I am starting to get seriously put off Capture One at this point. The value is questionable. If Affinity ever put out a product like Capture One/Lightroom I will likely never pay for another upgrade at that price.

     

    Oh also for the second time now I have not been able to get the Capture One licensing system to work. It still is a confusing mess every time I try to give them my money. I came to the site for tech-support to try and buy the preorder upgrade. At that price, I am waffling now. 

     

     

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  • Kevin Pinkerton

    @Andre Nogueira, hahaha. Exactly. Playing poker :)

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  • Kevin Pinkerton

    Found this... not much and I did not write it or steal it or break any NDA.

    https://macdrop.net/capture-one-21-pro-beta-1-v14-0-0/

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  • NFGphoto

    Thanks for that, Kevin.  Not much value for the update, really.

    As for the value vs Lightroom, well, I switched to C1 because it was far and away better in terms of its output than Lightroom.  If it's a couple of dollars more per month vs LR, then I consider that money well spent.  

    But yes, 'take a chance!  Give us money and maybe get some new stuff you like!' is a bullshit marketing technique.  

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  • Simon Fazio

    As I posted in the other forum, I'm absolutely perplexed by this "upgrade" decision. To me this just doesn't add up considering there's annual subscription model alongside a perpetual licence. You should be able to reasonably expect that "upgrading" to the latest version and buying the licence is going to get you at least between two and three years between major updates before they charge you full price for the next version. Certainly didn't think I would be shelling out for an update of this nature so soon. Can only think that this decision has been made recently and is only related to cashflow considering they've announced zero features and expecting you to pay more in a discounted "upgrade" than you did for the original licence itself. Honestly the worst product launch I've ever seen of a professional product. Take care of your customers C1.

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  • Ritesh Tripathy

    This is ridiculous at best. I paid the upgrade price to 20 in December last year. Less than a year later - "upgrade again for €103 (after 20% off) without any discussion allowed about what's new".

    It's like they're pushing and almost mocking loyal users with this stinky upgrade marketing. And kinda trying to say "you see, the annual subscription is a better deal! If you wanna own a perpetual license, we'll put out a new version with "game changing tools" in 10 months and you'll be SOL".

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  • utility image

    "expecting you to pay more in a discounted "upgrade" than you did for the original licence itself"

    Not sure what you paid for the full program Simon but I paid over $400 Canadian for version 12 and then just over a hundred for the last upgrade. If the current upgrade is 200 $CAD, they have doubled the upgrade price and the feature list seems very skimpy for $200 if that above link about covered it. To be honest I would not be surprised if it did seeing what the last upgrade brought to the table. 

    By comparison, DXO Photolab 4 was released today and is being sold on sale for $149 on its own or if you add the NIK collection it's $225. No, it is not the same program as Capture One Pro I understand that and I am not jumping ship just yet because it feels somewhat like a toy in places. But working with it today just to see what is on the other side of the fence before parting with my money I am honestly stunned with how quickly I am getting the results I need out of it. The work DXO has put into their lens and sensor database can be seen in spades. I allowed it to auto profile my lenses and cameras and the default RAW processing is absolutely brilliant. My first impression is that the Canon color rendering is considerably better than C1 and they have complete lens profiles for all my lenses. That's distortion, light falloff, sharpness and for me personally, it makes a big difference. Being able to profile the image with the corrections on and off is something I can't unsee. It seems that so far 95% of the time the starting place is better with DXO and it costs less than the upgrade for C1. On top of that, the new DeepPrime Denoise is mindbogglingly good. In fact, I think it may be better than Neat Image. But I have to test that before I could say for sure.

    This sounds like spam for DXO I know but the stark contrast in value is brutal. For $225 DXO and NIK bundle 🤔🤨 Like how am in not supposed to notice that?!

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  • Simon Fazio

    utility image - I just checked and I was slightly off in my calculation. I'm on the lower end of the payment structure as I have the Fujifilm only version - I payed $147AUD for the full licence and my "upgrade offer" is for $142AUD a mere nine months later ESPECIALLY when the new features just seem like an update that belongs in the same version of the software. If that feature set is correct then there is absolutely no way I will continue with C1.


    The thing that gets me though is that I didn't expect that they would be asking for the same amount each year to keep the program up to date when I elected to buy a licence, as opposed to the annual subscription model. I will definitely be looking around for an alternate software made by people who look out for their user base first and foremost. I quite like Exposure X6 but it make my laptop sound like it's about to take off for some reason. I'll even look at going back to Creative Cloud for the whole package. Either way, no need to give my money to a company of this nature in this market who just decided to spit at their customers in this way. I just can't think of any other example where a software has this type of pricing model and the company has the gall to try to grift the same amount of money twice in a calendar year.

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  • utility image

    The last update for C1 Pro was December 2019. So it looks like a once a year model. A few more hours with DXO and it's limitations are very apparent. It is a very smart program and I respect what it is offering but it is a fraction of the program that C1 is. There were so many things I missed having. But I do stand by what I said before about it providing a better starting point in almost every single case. And this truly surprises me. 

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  • gb

    Agree. C1 should be up front with any new features and sell on those merits and not turn the upgrade process into a lottery.

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  • utility image

    Phase One sorted out my license issue so I can now see my pricing for everything. I seriously do not like what it says.

    Seeing as the release cycle seems to be every year. This makes sense seeing as version 20 came out in 2020 and now version 21 will be released before the end of the year. Buying the subscription is way cheaper than just buying the license.

    On top of that check this out. Below is a screenshot of my receipt from the last upgrade to 20 with the signature styles bundle for $95 Canadian! WTF?! Phase One you more than doubled your price of an update in one year?  What on earth are you getting at here? 

     

    Also, your "we can't discuss future product updates" policy is nonsense. All I want to know is when support for my lenses would be provided as it is in photoshop, DXO just to mention a couple of competitors.

    Please refer to the image below to see how your competition handles sharing information with their customers. 

    Yes, their roadmap is literally built into the drop-down menu of their program and leads to a very flushed out website.

     

     

     

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  • NFGphoto

    @utility image  - It should be pointed out that a subscription is temporary, and a purchase doesn't expire.  That goes a long way toward explaining the price dfference, for me.  Sure, a sub is cheaper, but the moment you fail to renew your software dies.  If you don't want this years upgrade, you can keep using the software for as long as their servers let you activate it.

    And yeah, the price goes up more or less every year.  My order history is a bit spotty, but here's what I found (prices in AUD):

    • $120 upgrade to v7 (2012)
    • $??? 7 -> 8
    • $150 8 -> 9  (2015)
    • $199 9 -> 11  (2017)- an increase, but also a 2 year gap between 9 and 11
    • $217 11 -> 12 (2018)
    • $265 12 -> 20 (2019)
    • $256 20 -> 21 (2020)

    So yeah, this year's actually nine bucks cheaper than last year, which is probably an exchange rate glitch.  The price has doubled in 8 years, but in that time it's become world class software.  As a full time photographer who relies on this software, my loyalty is still assured.  There's nothing better, and it's the tiniest part of my yearly business expenditure.

    In that light, yeah.  I don't like paying for phantom features but I also consider this a cost of being a photographer with good tools.  

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  • utility image

    @NFGPhoto

    You make good points about a subscription just ending and the software being the quality that it is. I agree completely with these points. Looking at my records I don't understand why I paid less than half of what you paid. I feel fortunate that I did pay less for it. And yes when it comes to the gear to take photos C1 would be one of my smallest expenses as well. So I also agree here. As for things being better, there are programs that better it in areas but I would not say that there is a program that is better than it across the board as an all in one package.

    They are the most expensive option and are not the best in several areas. Lens support, noise, and dare I say colour rendition, for Canon anyway. The reason I get so bent out of shape is that I see these things affect every single photo that I take. But when asked they simply provide nothing. And then continue to ask for the highest price on the market.

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  • Mark Wyche

    Whatever the virtues of the product, in my view C1 are fools to treat their core, repeat customers who are loyal enough to upgrade over multiple cycles with such contempt as to expect them to pay out once again, with zero information as to what they will get in return.

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  • utility image

    I just came to a rather interesting discovery tonight by doing the unthinkable thing of reading the C1 21 FAQ page. It rather discreetly points out that if you want to know more about the features in 21 then they encourage you to join the beta testing. So not ten minutes later I am running 21 and know exactly what's going on with it right now at least. I expect how it is now will be very similar to what it will be when it is released. So if you want to know what is coming in the new release just download it and read the update info pdf.

    I hope that helps some of you feel more secure in making your decision.

    Having checked it out for a couple of hours I can say that I don't see myself buying this update. How they justify $217 CAD I just don't know. 

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  • Ernst Weinzettl

    "...and a purchase doesn't expire."

    So I unterstood "purchase" and "perpetual licence" in former days.

    And this maybe correct - as long the authorization servers will be available. And as I got to know Phase One (and his investors) during last year this could have an end immediately. at the last if earnings are not satisfying enough. And we all have seen what happened as Adobe shut down licence servers for Venezuela.

    So, the meaning of "perpetual licence" has changes and so did the value.

    Kind regards
    Ernst

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  • NFGphoto

    @Ernst - "So I unterstood "purchase" and "perpetual licence" in former days."

    Well, yeah, this is the world we live in.  I've been a full time photographer for about ten years.  Last year I spent three months working for another company who needed help, and I learned that modern software isn't sold anymore.  It's licensed, rented, subscribed to.  

    Phase One isn't unique in this.  I don't like it.  I hate it, in fact.  The very idea of relying on someone else's good mood to survive with my software makes me absolutely crazy.  But what are the options?  Free or cheaper software that doesn't do as good a job?  Someone else's subscription?

    It is what it is.  I wish they'd change it, but I'm sure they like having the boots on our necks, and finding another solution isn't something I have to worry about yet.  But of course I'd jump ship in a heartbeat if a comparable product with better terms existed.  Wouldn't we all?

     

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  • Mark Witherington

    @utility image Good spot about the Beta Test Program, I am giving it a try now.

    Note to anyone trying the Beta version, backup your catalogue as C1 21 will 'upgrade' your catalogue and it will then not be backward compatible with C1 20.  

    My opinion is that there are some useful features in the new version.  I am not going to discuss here of course as the C1 staff will give me a slap :D

    I did not have any problems with the Beta version, it installed alongside my existing version and once the catalogue was updates (in a matter of minutes), I was having a play. To get my current version working again I just copied back the backup of my catalogue and C1 20 is working as before.  

     

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  • Ernst Weinzettl

    @NFGphoto - You are right in nearly all you mention. BUT it is a big difference, if a company rent a software, when having exactly calculable costs per month/year or if a more private person do. The private person needs a plan AFTER, a company not. ;)

    Kind regards
    Ernst

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  • SARANNA K

    I'm seeing notable speed improvements on import and switching between folders on my catalog. That alone is worth the upgrade for me,Regards Onmovies

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  • David Maynard

    Upgrade capture one 21 does it including pano stitches like light room? Otherwise waste of money upgrade if does not including pano. Lots of other software have pano such as photo On 1, Affintly, lightroom 6, photoshop however capture one I like best but no pano stitches which rather disappointing
    Sorry

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  • Ernst Weinzettl

    Hi David,

    if you really are not interested in perfect color output but in more an more features beside RAW development - maybe Capture One is not what you are looking for.

    And, just to say, what programs you listed offer in stitching software-addins is very poor compared with specialized stitching software like Hugin, PTGui and others...

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  • David Maynard

    Its not question of perfect colour but you know lightroom can do pano with raw file, not many other software like hugin PTgui etc.......Photo ON 1 2021 can do raw pano very well if you do set up pano propley eg vertical and horiz by leveller device otherwise PhotoON1 2021 wont work if not set up propley, but lightroom is brilliant raw pano, however I like capture One 20 editing more then lightroom. I wish capture should develop new raw pano would be very benefit for this company. I am sure of that. If upgrade capture one 21 doesnt including raw pano then not worth upgrade.

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  • Ernst Weinzettl

    It IS a question of perfect color - if you need perfect colors. Lightroom cannot deliver a quarter as good as Capture One does. And Lightroom cannot give you the pano quality I as an example would need.

    But if you need a RAW converter for hobby I do not see any obstacle to use Lightroom. With panorama function. It's always YOUR decision.

    Capture One is not an grocery offering everything you could wish. Capture One not even does all things I would really need. And Capture One is not issue-free - but it delivers the best colors you can get.

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