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Capture one pro 21 just released

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28 comments

  • NFGphoto

    Yeah I was thinking the same thing.  The speed edit functionality seems like it might be nice, but it's not $244 AUD nice.  Even with the constantly changing discount (20%, 22%, 30% and back to 20%) I wouldn't have been happy to upgrade.

    Just dodgy behaviour.  If there's nothing new to offer maybe don't make a new release, and especially don't hype up the pre-orders in a transparent attempt to get some cashflow.  

    Times are tough, I get that, but this leaves a bad taste.

    5
  • C-M-B

    Now we kow why they didn't tell us anything about this new version:


    There's nothing to tell. 

     

    6
  • Mika Leinonen

    What a massive disappointment Capture One 21 is. I won't be upgrading. There is nothing new and useful in this "upgrade". Now it is clear why they tried to get people to upgrade "blindly" without knowing what they get...

    4
  • Lee Grant

    I also looked at this which shows what they added between v12, 20, and 21. Interesting to look at what was in each upgrade.

    0
  • Frank Mantek

    Personally,

    if they improved importing, speed of catalogs and sessions, that's good enough for me. I am wasting enough time, if this get's a lot faster, it's worth 200$ for me.

    So, to each their own, i guess. We all value different things, a "make things faster release" is appreciated in my book.

    Frank

    0
  • C-M-B

    "if they improved importing, speed of catalogs and sessions, that's good enough for me. I am wasting enough time, if this get's a lot faster, it's worth 200$ for me."

    Precisely. 

    " if "

    1
  • Frank Mantek

    They claim that this part of the product. Improved, faster asset management, improved, faster importer. We will see how much faster it will be, true.

    But that's easy for you to evaluate, right? get the trial, and test  if the speed improvements are worth your money or not. Fair and easy enough.

     

    Frank

     

     

    0
  • Frank Mantek

    And from my perspective, having now gotten past the activation problem, the limited testing i have done so far (opened 2 existing sessions, imported 1500 images). The import on the version 21 took 63sec and the version 20 took 72sec for the same thing. Not the world, sure, but i have some hopes that stuff like smart albums, keyword filters etc all work better. It is a 15% improvement for a simple, small task.

    Need to try something like a large catalog, but i have not time for that right now.

    0
  • Mika Leinonen


    Existing C1 user won't install any trial software to see if upgrade is better than the software one already has installed.
    Especially not to see differenced on import speed.

    1
  • Keith R
    Top Commenter

    "But that's easy for you to evaluate, right? get the trial, and test  if the speed improvements are worth your money or not. Fair and easy enough."

    No point trying to have a rational discussion with him, Frank - he only comes here to whine.

    -3
  • C-M-B

    IMO import speed was never as much of an issue - but opening a large catalogue or session with +500 images was an issue. 

    If they improved the speed of opening sessions/catalogues (especially via NAS) then it might be worth the upgrade. 

    Other than that....well....


    0
  • Keith R
    Top Commenter

    "Existing C1 user won't install any trial software to see if upgrade is better than the software one already has installed."

    I didn't get the memo telling me that you'd been elected to speak on behalf of "Existing C1 users", Mika. 

    Your opinion is yours. You don't speak for anyone else.

    -1
  • Fabrice Fiorucci

    Speed is here for me.

    I come from lightroom and C1 20 & 21 are definitively faster.

    I was able to import 1000 Raw in less than 3 minutes (Sony A7RIV)
    I can start derush and edit my files while C1 generates preview. ( This thing was unmanageable in LR ) C1 is faster to import the rest of my files than me to derush the first ones

    0
  • Frank Mantek

    In regard to opening files on a NAS.... Assuming you are not connected with 10 Gigabit network to the NAS, this will never fly and not a lot that Captureone can do, or anyone else, to speed this up. I have (as backup) a relatively decent synology somewhere in the network. From my main workmachine i can get speeds of ~110MB/s both ways, as this is pretty much the end of the 1 Gigabit network here in my home. Measured with CrystalDiskMark.

    My local disks are PCI4 SSDs. They go to 5600MB/s in the same test. Now that's a factor 50x faster. Hard to offset this.

    When you add that my average image file is a 50MB raw file, that means it takes me 0.5 sec to transfer that over the wire, vs 0.01 sec on the local machine.

    I wanted to use a NAS, but it's just working with the filesizes i have and my personal patience for waiting. So i have local disks that are really fast, sync those with a directory mirror software to the NAS, and the NAS sends it to the cloud for backup. I think if you hope that any software will make up for that speed difference, you will be disappointed, and waste a lot of time. Better, if possible, to change your flow a bit.

    Frank

     

    0
  • C-M-B

    Well here's the thing:

    This is an issue that's mainly connected to how CaptureOne for Windows is programmed. With OSX it's not an issue at all, even older machines can open lager Catalogues and Sessions much faster than a brand new Windows machine.

    This is due to the fact that with Windows Capture One load every single individual image one after another. With OSX it seems to use a kind of index and instantly displays the images- even on a NAS drive.

    My local SSD is a 3500MB/s NVME - that should be fast enough for everything, but it still takes +10 seconds to fully load a Session with 1500 images. On OSX it's instantaneous - you open it and it's there.
    With the NAS it's much worse and I don't get it. It should only take a long time to access an Image when I click on it, not to open the session or catalogue. But it seems like C1 always checks each individual file and that takes a long time.
    With OSX I can actually work on a NAS - like you I have a 1Gb/s connection and it's stable at around 110MB/s and for things like Adobe Bridge and Lightroom it works very well. Of course opening images takes a few seconds. But for CaptureOne accessing the Sessions and Catalogues takes forever.

    That was a real setback when I made the switch from OSX to Windows. At first I though it was just me and my setup but Support confirmed that it's due to the differences in software behaviour.

    That's the problem I and a lot of other users have been having for years now and nothing it being done to improve it. That would probably require a built-in index of the files the session/catalogue contained the last time it was opened and I'm sure that's a challenge to program.
    But fixing this behaviour has been requested for years and with each new version it is being ignored.

    1
  • Mika Leinonen

    "I didn't get the memo telling me that you'd been elected to speak on behalf of "Existing C1 users", Mika. "

    You didn't get the memo? Who's fault is it? I didn't speak about users, I talked about user (that being me). Got it?

    "You don't speak for anyone else."

    I didn't get the memo telling me that you'd been elected to speak on behalf of "anyone else", Keith. 

    0
  • Frank Mantek

    Hmmm. I never used this on Windows (we have mostly Macs here, and i just switched to a Windows workstation after i changed the flow to be local first).

    From my experience using Macs for this, yes it works. It's just slow. Much too slow for me personallly to have fun with the flow.

    Just to see if i can repro your problem, i opened a session with a 1000 files on the network,  and opening the session takes < 2sec. Loading the images past their preview stage is more of a 5sec per image, which i personally find intolerable.

    The same session local is obviously much faster, it's more or less instant. One of the biggest performance problems i have seen with CaptureOne is the dependence on the graphics card. Not sure how much that would play into this though while opening your session.

    Weird. I do have a highend Windows Workstation, and i expect it to be fast of course. But the described problem that you are seeing is something i would then have assumed i could easily repro the network behaviour. Weird.

    Frank

    0
  • C-M-B

    That's what I meant: to fully show the images in the session in the browser.

    Loading the individual images when you click on them "only" takes around two seconds.

    My PC isn't a Highend Workstation anymore, but at no point during working with Capture One is the CPU- or GPU-, Disk- or RAM-Usage beyond 60% and I don't have things like Lightroom running at the same time.

    And as I said, I'm not the only one who has these issues.

    0
  • Frank Mantek

    Let me see i understand: when you open the session, until the browser window displays all the little tiles, takes that long. Is this the problem?

    Normally, and i am no expert, those tiles are cached. If they need to get recomputed (which you can force by regenerating previews), this takes a really long time and is then of course heavily depending on your GPU power.

    Why they would constantly need to be recalculated in your scenario, i can only guess. Write permission problems (when you look at the network folder where the session is, are all those .cot files etc in the captureone folder beneath the image location?), or someone else opening up that session when you are not using it with a different computer and a different resolution? that way you would ping/pong recreating all those files all the time (another big disadvantage on the network solution. You pay with speed, but with CaptureOne, Lightroom etc, you don't get Multiuser benefits at all).

    Just guessing. But if your previews are always regenerating, which it sounds like, there probably is an answer and your situation could improve.

    Frank

    0
  • C-M-B

    All files are present, when I'm done with editing, I copy the whole folder to my NAS drive - and there are no read/write permission problems at all. Keep in mind: this also happens on with files on my local SSD.

    Since I am the only person working on my NAS drive and computer I can 100% rule out the scenario you proposed- and as I said, with Lightroom it's much, much, much better and way faster.



    According to Capture One Support my issues are 100% normal and perfectly fine and caused by the way Windows 10 handles files.

    However I'm re-installing Windows 10 within the next few weeks anyway, so if there are any issues regarding file management or permissions on local drives they should be fixed.

    1
  • Frank Mantek

    Hmm. I don't buy the support explanation. On my machine everything works perfectly fine, and it's a windows 10 system, so if that would be an inherited problem with the windows file system, or file management, shouldn't all windows CaptureOne users have it?

    I do have an overkill machine, specially build for astrophotography stacking etc, so it's blazingly fast, and it would be disappointing if there is anything that i do that would be slow. Having said that, network is a bottleneck that my local CPU/GPU can't overcome, so if there would be problem, i should suffer from that as well. And i don't. Network is to slow for my taste, but it's well in tolerance and much better than what you are describing. Your system does not seem to be dog slow machine either, so there is a bit of a mistery.

    I understand that windows network file handling is more complicated etc than Apple's, but if this happens locally as well, this can not be the reason for your experience.

    Anyhow, there is probably nothing i can do to help you, beside giving you hope: you can have a windows system that runs captureone just fine. I just don't know why i can, and you can not.

    Frank

    0
  • Frank Mantek

    oh, just for Information purposes: i am running windows pro. Are you running home edition eventually?

    0
  • C-M-B

    Yeah, it's Windows 10 Pro (Version 20H2 OS build: 19042.630)

    As I said my CPU/GPU/RAM combo isn't limiting CaptureOne, neither is the NVME SSD - everything is properly cooled, regularly serviced and 100% stable.

    I tried enabling and disabling file indexing - didn't make a difference.
    I tried overclocking my CPU/GPU/RAM - didn't make a difference.
    I ran various tool to check the performance of my computer - no issues/bottlenecks.
    I disabled the Windows Defender Antivirus, excluded the CaptureOne and image folders from being scanned etc - no difference.
    I ran the SDDs manufacturer software to upgrade the firmware, increase Over-Provisioning, check for driver updates,... - no difference.

    I have ~36% available space on my SSD so it's not clogged either.

    EDIT: I just installed 21

    it's just as slow but additionally it seems to have to re-generate all preview images from already existing sessions/catalogues. And it takes a very long time (at least 1 second per file!) - it was much quicker with 20.

    1
  • Gabriele Berti

    It is interesting to read all about performance. But as far I am concern the most important thing is the quality of functionality/features.

    I agree that Capture One is one of the best  in the market, however i would have expected serious improvements to some o f the existing features (ability to control and edit at a more granular level) at least in the areas of Noise Reduction and HDR,especially considering the tangible improvements achieved by the competition.

    3
  • C-M-B

    That's an excellent point, Gabriele.

    And speaking of control: A lot of users have asked numerous times for a way to select/replace colours based on their RGB value or a similar reliable, reproducible and translatable method.
    So far, any time a client wanted me to change the colour of an object or background to another specific colour I had to do it in Photoshop because the colour wheels and sliders in Capture One aren't precise enough and I can't select a specific colour with them.

    3
  • Wesley

    Keith R: You only come here to snark. Whenever I see your post, you're grumpy as hell. Are you an apologist, shareholder or both?

    1
  • Adam Fahlund

    I honestly don't feel there was any improvement in speed in importing, loading, or tools, The only noticeable differences are a dehaze button and the speed edit feature

    0
  • Adam Fahlund

    and that guy Fabrice Fiorucci is straight up lying, I have the same camera, a prograde 300mbps sd, Working on a Samsung T7 ssd. It takes exactly 2 mintues to download 40 images

    0

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