C21 upgrade - final verdict for me

Comments

18 comments

  • Thomas Schneider

    Unfortunately, that's true.
    The biggest annoyance is that CO21 is really noticeably slower than C020.
    The processing of the catalog has been improved, but the display of the images has slowed down extremely compared to CO20.
    It is surprising that this is hardly discussed in the forum.
    I like to work with CO. It has one of the best image quality.
    Together with DxO's NR, it is the best tool for photographers.

    Greetings

    Thomas

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  • jj kk

    I tried to browse through exactly the same RAW photos (from Capture One folder) by ADCSee ... It showed every photo absolutely instantly in no time ... C1 21 needs few sec to show the photo from defocused mode ... This is really terrible !

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  • John Harper

    I'm a Beta Tester and I've been telling them for years to improve the speed of C1, but it's just ignored.

    It has also been talked about on the forum often over the years and from what I understand they would have to rebuild the engine of C1 to make it quicker.

    They are also not very innovative as to the new features they add each year.

    C1 produces the best image quality of any other software, this is why I always upgrade each year and when it's all said and done it doesn't cost much.

    Cheers,

    John

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  • don maclean

    You will find a file "<catalog name>.cocatalogdb.backup" in your catalog folder that is the previous version catalog file. Try opening that in v20.

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  • CSP

    it is indeed slower, not much but I use sessions.  anyway the same issues which plagued the former versions are still there, the file browser does not update and sometimes previews are not loading.  

    it is the normal for c1 now to ignore issues and problems and just move on. it got worse from year to year. the new features are simply a joke, the dehaze filter is so bad that I can´t believe it made it in the release version. 

    the really sad thing is that this underwhelming release is probably an indictor that this company ist now totally unable to innovate or even substantially improve this software.  

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  • jj kk

    Where are for example panorama possibilities ?  (this would be welcome)

    Why this stupid super annoying "writelock" is still there (you can't open the catalogue unless you erase it )

    Why this backup dialogues are so obtrusive (do you want to backup, it was backuped , press ok etc.) and you cannot set backup automatically etc. ?

    Why (at least in Windows) C1 still does not remember the folder where C1 catalogues are placed and which was opened 100 times before and still completely different folder when one wants to open something ? 

    And also this forum - "sign in" every time, mostly with error etc.

    Etc. etc. ?   New quick edit shortcuts (for 140 EUR) are just embarrassing ..
    What are people in this company doing most of the time ? Just counting money ? :)

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  • CSP

    I could write a long list of small improvements which would have an nice impact on usability and are probably also easy to implement but I guess nobody is really interested because they always know better, this is their true corporate mindset and not the marketing BS they post.

    c21 is for sure a turning point for their business, the normally over excited and devoted YouTube and blogger world is totally silent and most of the online comments express disappointment, not good in times of troubles.  when you add the heavy price increase combined with the reduction in value for new costumer  you don't need a MBA degree to see that something is going in the wrong direction and no amount of marketing can change this.  but when they can't attract enough new customer or user to upgrade  this will lead to even less development and innovation and in the worst case to bankruptcy because I doubt their hardware business is doing well either. so I don't think they are counting money they are rather discusing layoffs and cuts.... 

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  • Bud James

    If you really want to see how slow Capture One Pro 21 or Lightroom is, try using Photo Mechanic 6. It's the fastest RAW file browser I have ever used on a Mac.

    I have owned Photo Mechanic for years, but never used it much. I just upgraded to version 6 Plus which now adds catalog features. I use PM to cull my images, add GPS information, stars and color ratings and delete outtakes before importing into Capture One Pro 21.

    The metadata that I add in PM6 imports with the files into C1P because PM6 actually adds this date to DNG files instead of creating a separate sidecar XMP file. This works great for a one-way import into C1P.

    Once my files are in my C1P catalog (I used referenced folder system), I can add keywords and make any image adjustments needed.

    Virtually all of my image editing and post-processing needs are covered by C1P. The program is awesome and allowed me to cancel my Adobe Creative Cloud subscription and dependencies on expensive Lightroom plugins.

    For the occasional and very rare heavy pixel editing, I roundtrip TIFs to Affinity Photo, a great Photoshop alternative.

    The only issue that I have found using C1P for the past 4 years, is that I have to keep image catalogs less than about 25k images or the program really gets sluggish. I split my LR catalog which had over 150k images, into smaller C1P catalogs by years. I shoot about 10k images a year to catalogs with a two year span works for me. The only disadvantage is that I cannot search across my entire image library. Thankfully, C1P allows you to have multiple catalogs open at the same time which is not possible in LR.

    Regards,
    Bud James

    Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto

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  • Thomas Schneider

    Capture One advantages are the catalog management and the excellent image quality.
    With the help of the previews I am able to have a very large image database (over 100k) on my internal HD.
    I can edit them with some limitations, only when I export I have to access the large external HD with the original files.
    This made Capture One unbeatable in my RAW developer workflow.
    With CO21 even the calculation of the small previews has slowed down.
    Large catalogs that were displayed smoothly with CO20 show a significant slowdown in the update.

    I think CPS is right.
    Capture One is at a tipping point with version 21.
    The Version 21 doesn't really have any specific advantages over version 20.
    In fact, when you look at it more closely, the disadvantages outweigh the advantages.
    Hopefully at least the Big Sur compatibility will be an advantage of CO21.

    Regards

    Thomas

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  • jj kk

    The question is whether to quickly return to version 20 or to wait and hope they will fix this disaster soon

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  • CSP

    ...it has become a forseeable annual cycle. after every release in the last years you could read - ok, lets hope they fix the issues soon and indeed they manage to fix some of the bugs but often late only just a few month away from the next version and than the cycle of disappointment and hope starts again. for occasional amateur user this is probably not a big thing but for professionals which I believe are by far the most loyal customers of c1 it is challenging and more and mores frustrating.  but the management thinks this is the way to do business with us.  I´m also convinced the next letdown, m1 support  is already on he way.... 

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  • Mike Garthwaite

    Why can we not get our money back??? that was a lot of money for what we got and the clone tool is still a joke. They will never catch me again, I new I shouldn't have prepaid but the improvements are a massive joke. How do we get our money back??????

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  • Josh Abrams

    Hey everyone, I was in the same boat... excited about ver 21 (because of commit to SL/S system support - finally!)... but when I started using the software, it was absolutely unusable from a performance perspective. Most noticeably, the input lag when trying to crop was like 2-3 seconds (from mouse click to software response).

    I was just as upset! I actually gave up and reverted back to ver 20.

    Then... I read another thread on here about a bug with "Proofing." I didn't even know I was using proofing? ... it must be a default or something? Anyhow, I turned this off, and the UI snapped back to life. Not quite as snappy as 20, but very close (and totally usable). Here's how to test this yourself...

    View > Proof Profile > No Profile

    Hope this helps for you?

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  • jj kk

    I tried, but showing the photos still shows the same 2-8 sec lag before defocused ... A real shame.

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  • CSP

    think I now understand why c21 has become slower.  earlier versions had an annoying issue, the full view was probably calculated different, fast but less accurate,  than the 100% view.  it was very visible with high iso shots you could see the color change when zooming in, this is now gone.  

    so with version 21 both the full view and the 100% view are calculated from the raw the same way but this improved rendering also makes c1 slower and more in line with competitors.  it is typical that c1 didn´t say a word about this in their release note, they think we are idiots not worth to get informed about such changes ! 

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  • jj kk

    Well, as I said - for example ACDSee shows the same raw photos instantly. Not sure if it is a question of "calculating", if yes, then the faster computer, it shall show faster ? For example, I have extremely powerful PC (i9 10 core 3,6 GHz, RTX 3090 graphic card, 64 GB RAM), yet C1 need 2-8 seconds to show one photo.

    Not speaking of the fact that unlike other programmes it does not remember from where I have opened the last catalogue, session etc. and when trying to open another one, it again returns to completely different folder.

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  • CSP

    well it is still possible that acdsee is faster, maybe they simply have the better software engineers ;-) ,  I also hear the ventilators more than in previous versions but I´m very sure that  this change contributes to the slower performance. 

     

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  • Kip Vaughan

    The info you are leaving out is what is your hardware setup? How are we supposed to know if the slow down is caused by hardware or software?

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