CaptureOne 20 does not sort in date order?
Got a puzzler. I have a small folder of photos in CaptureOne 20 that I want to sort in date order and then export as a contact sheet. Seems simple? But the photos refuse to sort in date order. They sort but the newest files are somewhere in the middle of the group. Other sorts (like by rating) seem to work correctly.
Anyone know what is going on?
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Not a problem on my system.
The sort order follows whatever is currently set for the Browser including whether Ascending or Descending.
Have you run the process with the date set as the caption just to check what the system thinks it is seeing?
Also have you tried closing and opening C1 and, if that did nothing, closing C1, re-booting the PC and reopening C1?
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Sorry, I don't understand the question "Have you run the process with the date set as the caption just to check what the system thinks it is seeing?".
The date in the OS is correct. The date displayed by the windows file explorer is correct for each file. I have tried rebooting and re-starting C1, with no change in behavior. When attempting to sort by date within an album, the sort does not place the newest files at the top. It also does not place two files with the SAME date next to each other. Whatever it is sorting on is NOT the date attached to the file.
Other sorts such as by "rating" appear to be correct.
A simple "sort by date" in the Windows file explorer sorts correctly.
What am I missing?
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Interesting.... I just discovered that Raw Therapee sorts in exactly the same (ie., unknown) order as CaptureOne. However, it is unclear what RawTherapee is using as a sort order since it is not described and not configurable (that I know of).
FWIW, these are TIFF files (astrophotos) that have lots of embedded metadata. But that should not matter since all I am asking for is a simple date sort......
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Paul,
Changing the caption setting for the Contact sheet will allow you to compare the apparent sort order for the Contact sheet display to see if it is different to the sort order you have selected in the browser in the case that it has used a different sort order. Just a way to visibly check what is going on to see if it suggests any clues about what is happening.
It also allows date and time to be displayed .
Presumably the sort order and direction works in the Browser when you change the option to use? Or are you saying it does not work in the browser either?
The order of the Contact sheet should reflect the order of the browser. Unless, of course, a "Manual" setting overrides that. I don't have time to check that theory right at this moment.
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Hmmmm.....
The images in the contact sheet are in the same order as they are in the browser. However, both are incorrect and NOT in date order when a date sort is selected in the browser.
Setting "caption" to DATE when creating a contact sheet results in... NO CAPTIONS. Setting "caption" to anything else results in appropriate captions.
Sounds like a bug? If so, that is unfortunate because I am not sure I am willing to pay to upgrade to v21..... not much changed that is useful to me.
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Strange.
What are the sources of the images?
There are multiple date fields in the metadata. Usually the date the image was shot, as provided by the camera, would be used. That is not necessarily the same as the date the image was created.
However if the files have come from a scanner or some other process without a date in the relevant date field you might well see what you are seeing.
There is a section in the Filters Tool in the library tab that by default set up filtering by date related values.
It would be interesting to know what that offers. I assume nothing but it may be something different.
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OK, I think you are on to something. The DATE field in the filters section is blank when looking at the folder that contains the images in question (rendered JPGs written by an astrophotography program). It contains a correct date when looking at other files in other folders (Sony ARW files). So whatever CaptureOne is looking for is missing in the rendered JPGs. BUT...... Windows has no problem displaying the correct date and time for when the rendered JPGs were created so whatever C1 is looking at is not the commonly used date field?
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Hi Paul,
Selecting a folder of images using Win 10 File Explorer and setting the display to Detail mode one can add more than the default columns of information. You probably know this already.
The EXIF/IPTC metadata fields allow for many specific use date fields. Windows seems to offer many as well but for a number of file types. For photos there is a default "Date" and one can add, for example, Date Created, Date Modified and Date Taken.
For output files Date tends to be either Date Created or Date modified. I'm not sure which but realistically they are likely to be the same in the context of photo editing.
Looking at some of my older Canon folders from when I used to shoot RAW and jpg I can see that Date relates to the time the image was taken but Date Taken is only populated for the jpg files and not the RAWs.
Date Taken is never populated for jpg files created as Output.. The Created Date for those files is the date and time of creation. Mostly. But not always. Much seems to depend in the process by which the files were created. At least in terms of what Windows uses as a date for its purpose. That may be what you are seeing with your rendered jpgs. (Or perhaps, in context, NOT seeing.)
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Yes, Windows can display many "date" fields. For the files in question, those fields all agree with the date that explorer shows by default. And NOT what C1 seems to be sorting on.
I give up. C1 is sorting on SOMETHING but I am at a loss to understand WHAT. It sure isn't the date that explorer displays.
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I have something similar with dates and times associated with the DNG files from my phone.
In fact much of the EXIF data is incorrect or missing. I suspect that includes the date and time the image was captured. Looking at what is there in the date field I suspect it is the date and time the file was copied form the phone to, in this case, my NAS.
Also the file copy tool seemed to think it should be stripping metadata anyway. And of course that is one of the things one can control when producing output from Windows.
In the case of the phone cameras there are many different standards it seems although there is a tendency (at least with the DNG "RAW" files) to include the capture date and time as the file name.
The jpgs use something else. All numeric. I would guess its unconverted Unix time. (Just checked and that exactly what it is.)
Standards, standards, Everyone should have some - just not necessarily the same standards.
There are tools out there that could, potentially, find the right time field and transfer the data from that field to whichever field works for C1. If that was applied to the jpgs you would probably see the result you want. It might be a useful thing to do anyway. For future benefits?
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I meant to add that you might look at the "Manual" option where, as I understand it, you place the files in the order you want then to be in.
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Thanks. That is all a possible work around. But it negates any advantage of the contact sheet function, which I use as a quick and easy way to upload my favorites in date order to my web server. Having to preprocess my JPGs to populate an unknown date field would make that cumbersome.
Note that this is not an issue with the files I usually use in C1, which are ARW from my camera. Those sort just fine. But the JPGs rendered from my astrophoto software are missing whatever C1 needs even though they display the correct date and sort correctly in Windows.
So I guess this is a dead end unless someone can show me how to change the field C1 looks at to determine file date.
My last resort would be to open a ticket with CaptureOne but since I am on v20 and they have moved on to 21, I'm probably SOL......
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Paul,
Two thoughts come to mind.
Firstly is there a setting in your astrophoto software that might enable population of the appropriate field in some way?
Secondly - although C1 has a strict rule about not modifying an "Original" image (basically any image it is not creating because it already exists) other applications are available to do just that. EXIFtools is a name that seems to crop up frequently in the forum. Not one I have used. I very rarely change any pre-exiting metadata fields in an original file.
If you can modify the original file to provide the correct date (and time?) in the expected data format by editing the original file that should work.
I would think that the use of a sidecar XML file could also work but again that is not something I have used, though many do when they adopt an independent catalog application to manage multiple document types or because they use multiple processing applications.
I'm going to guess that if you re-post with a revised "seeking a solution for xxxxxxx" title and description you may attract responses from people who have specific experience of doing the exact same thing or something extremely similar.
There are also some number of prior posts that discuss the need for changing EXIF details for similar purposes - like fixing date and time for for an event when using multiple cameras that have not been time synchronised before shooting.
That may give you a starting point for adjusting historic images even if you find a setting in the astro app that will deal with future images.
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The lack of a coherent sorting in date order with Capture one is a big problem when shooting tethered.
A typical set up involves writing Raw files to the card and having JPEGS sent to a Capture folder in Capture One. These images will have a capture time pretty close to one another and by capture time, I mean the time the image file was written. This concept of time is unambiguous and can be agreed upon by most photographers as something they understand.
The client typically does a 'pick' of the images as they appear on the screen eg by single keystroke star selection.
After the shoot, the RAW files are imported into capture one.
The selected 'picked' jpegs now need to have a corresponding selection of the same RAW images . This selection can then be edited and the jpegs discarded.
C1 makes the process of marrying the jpegs and RAW files very tricky.
A method of displaying the jpegs and raw files listed by capture time is not impossible but is tricky.
To try using the same file names for the jpegs and Raw files is not an option as C1 does not allow original file names in tethered capture.
Neither does C1 allow for sort by capture time.
If sort by date is selected, the jpeg images captured by tether are listed separately and before the RAW files so there is no easy way to eyeball the starred jpegs and quickly apply the same star to the corresponding RAW file.
The only way to get the jpegs and RAW files to list close to one another is to manually synchronise the in camera file name with the camera counter token in Next Capture Naming every single time you do a shoot oh and by the way, this system doesn't work if you work with more than one body.
In my opinion this is a major fail.
By the way, the original post refers to C1 20, but I am describing behaviour in C1 21
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Peter,
Are you using a camera that allows you to capture images to its internal card as well as using the full Tether facilities of Capture one? This has not been possible until recently. (Unless maybe for Phase One cameras? )
I assume you are not using a Hot Folder solution as you mention having different file names to cope with.
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I shoot Sony which when tethered also allows files to be written to the card
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I need to hold my hands up and let you know the behaviour I described in my first post was not repeated on a shoot yesterday.
I have no idea why, but when I added the RAW images from the card into the same folder as the jpegs captured by tether, the sort by date sorted the files by capture time.
I was extremely happy with the outcome as the client picks were adjacent to the corrsponding RAW files but perplexed nonetheless as this was definitely not happening on previous tethered shoots in C21.
It does appear there is some strange behaviour in the date C1 uses when sorting files but from my perspective, C1 tethering is now working as I would like it.
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