Images disabled after editting in Photoshop

Comments

17 comments

  • CSP

    maybe c1 is not able to display images with output profiles embedded or it is a bug.

    Is it bad for the image to change and save different profiles?

    in most cases yes !  editing a file converted to an output - printer profiles is also never a good idea. may I ask why you see the need to go back to c1 anyway ?  

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  • Afra V

    It's displaying the images, just not editable. 

    Is it bad for the image to change and save different profiles?

    in most cases yes !  editing a file converted to an output - printer profiles is also never a good idea. may I ask why you see the need to go back to c1 anyway ?  

    I'm going back and forth between C1 and Photoshop a lot. Overall changes in C1, details in PS and then final changes in C1. 
    How would I be able to tell if my process effected the images? 

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  • CSP

    hm, I do a lot of my own retouching, products most of the time and I would never go back to c1 for many reasons, i convert my images with a little less contrast as needed and an overall balanced look, the rest is done in an image editor. when I know the destination and have a profile for it i make the final adjustments with the help of soft proofing and apply needed changes on layers or save a version.

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  • CSP

    How would I be able to tell if my process effected the images?   

    even with 16 bit file going back and forth between workspace and  printer profiles will not only lead to a loss of editable color information but can trigger unwanted other effects like posterisation.  you could use a solar curve to check for issues. 

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  • Afra V

    Thank you so much CSP, I keep learning :)
    and am looking into it! 

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  • Robert Farhi

    Hi Afra,

    Maybe this could help you:

    PSD: Capture 10.1 onward can support PSD files in the viewer. The PSD can contain any adjustments, layers, text or smart objects but must be saved in Photoshop with “maximize compatibility” enabled. Reprocessing the image from Capture One will result in a new flattened image.

    Find in:

    https://support.captureone.com/hc/fr-fr/articles/360008695238-Capture-One-20-13-1-0-release-notes

    Edit : Why do you need to process your images with a "print icc profile" ? Usually, it is better to process images in C1 in a very large colour space, edit them in Photoshop with the same input colour space,and go back to C1, then print with the "print icc profile" if C1 manages the print.

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  • CSP

    Usually, it is better to process images in C1 in a very large colour space

    hm, what makes you think that ? when you take a look at c1 camera profiles (the new pro standard for example ) you will  find they are  just a little bigger than adobe RGB but far away from pp RGB.  the best color work space is the one which covers the important colors in your motive but does not wast information.  so a photographer capturing portraits will not even need adobe RGB but for the one shooting extrem saturated objects like neon lights or wants to push saturation benefits from a larger space.  and than there is the clipping issue going from a larger space to a smaller output space.  so usually everybody who does not fully understand the consequences of using a large color space or needs to exchange data should stay away from them. 

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  • Robert Farhi

    @CSP

    The new ProStandard is not a camera profile, but a curve, which is applied together with the camera ICC profile. When you compare your ICC camera profile with Adobe RGB using a profile manager software, for example, you will see that the camera profiles (at least mine) are larger than Adobe RGB. And more specifically if you make your own camera profile at home using a target. So, even at this stage, you can lose colours when restricting to Adobe RGB. And choosing your colour workspace depending upon your picture is a little bit troublesome, IMHO.

    Most of people think that it is not necessary to work in larger colour spaces than Adobe RGB, as displays and printers have smaller colour spaces. Some softwares use, indeed, Adobe RGB colour space. The only issue you can get is that, when processing, errors in digital rounding can affect the colours in the end (introducing colour flats, for instance), especially when the number of adjustments increase in the process.

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  • CSP

    c1 has a somehow quirky color pipeline but the new pro standard profiles are still input .icc profiles as the old generic ones and no curves. the film curve and the embbeded profile tone curve seem to not have changed also. the profile color space is larger than aRGB but not in a relevant size and far away from prophoto. choosing a work space based on the image content is the best way, most user overrate the size of the colourspace they need but bigger is not automatically better and other than with adobe it does not make much sense in c1 !  

    adobe or eci RGB are the best option for 95% of user for more than one good reason and I think the rounding errors are less of a problem than the clipping which is unavoidable when going to a smaller space . 

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  • Robert Farhi

    Yes, you are right, I don't have any camera eligible to ProStandard profiles, but I have checked that ProStandard profiles are indeed ICC camera profiles.

    About the choice of a working colour space, it is clear to me that most of my images don't require larger colour spaces than Adobe RGB. But some do, especially when blue/cyan/green are significant in an image. And I can't, unfortunately, see with my eyes if such or such an image would require a larger colour space than Adobe RGB because of its deep blue or cyan colours. My way of working is to choose a larger colour space than Adobe RGB (ProPhoto or ProStar) in order to avoid any colour cut off. It is simpler to me, and Capture One allows it. But it is MY way of working, and I perfectly understand that people could choose to work with more restricted colour spaces. All depend upon the level of demand and colour quality required by the user.

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  • CSP

    when you know what you are doing nothing speaks against large color work spaces. I evaluated the use of prophoto for repro work, very colourful paintings with high saturated blues and yellows and did not find any improvement. on the adobe .dcp / .dng side things are very clear and well documented but the internal color space and processing of c1 looks like a state secret in comparison.  in c1 the useable gamut seem bound to the camera profile gamut, maybe there is not even such a thing like an internal workspace. so when the profiles do not have a gamut larger than aRGB and this profile also sets the boundaries of editable saturation a space like prophoto has no effect. 

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  • Robert Farhi

    I agree with these assertions in that case, but who knows how C1 is working as far as colours (profiles, spaces) are concerned ? Except the staff, of course....

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  • CSP

    digital color is really like schrödingers cat as camera sensors do not have a color gamut...  

    so in the process of better understanding my new love DXO I did some tests with c1 too. first I started with a shot of back lit high saturated color gels in blue and cyan but I could not find any significant difference between the adobe and pp RGB file. but looking at the camera gamut agin I decided to change to a strong magenta and deep red gels and now there is with no surprise a  difference.  so outputting to ppRGB is useful but probably not in the way most user think.

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  • Robert Farhi

    Yep ! I tried DxO for some time (I bought many versions, the last one being Photolab 2), and, in the end, I decided to keep with Capture One,..... for the very few images which are out of the DPL working space (previously Adobe RGB, now DCI-P3). In addition, C1 offers many powerful tools (I agree that Deep Prime is amazing !), and suits better my feeling, and this is the most important !!

    The question is not "outputting to ppRGB". I never output to ppRGB, except when I have to break my workflow and go to Photoshop (or Affinity Photo) for heavy local corrections Capture One can't make.

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  • CSP

    I have always tested new versions of dxo over the years but never thought it offered a useful advantage but PL4 changed my mind and now it has fast  become my primary tool not only because of deep-prime.  adobe and c1 are very similar in usage but dxo is different. after some time when I thought I understand the tools enough i reprocessed some challenging images I have developed before with c1 and in almost all cases I preferred the dxo result. while c1 always looks for me  like a strange digital style is applied I have to work against dxo is far more neutral in color, contrast and micro contrast. I really love this elegant look I´m able to get, sharp and detailed but also smooth, which sometimes reminds me of large format provia on a light table.  the last advantage c1 keeps in my view is speed and some exotic but useful tools.

     

     

     

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  • Robert Farhi

    Perfect ! On the French forums in which I participate, I always tell people that the best development software is the one you feel good with, and which gives you satisfactory results.

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  • CSP

    ...or where you have to make the least compromise,  I my view all suck because none of them are made from a creatives viewpoint to easy accomplish creative tasks. 

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