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C1 21 Pro: Copy/paste specific keywords but not all of them?

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47 comments

  • Shane Baker

    I stumbled upon one fundamental obstacle, which is: how to copy/pick certain keywords from one photo and paste them into another one? Is it even possible to do (I don't want to copy/paste all keywords, only those that I pick)?

    Would anyone, please, tell me what is the proper procedure for that?

    Well, what I do is select the images that I wish to keyword with a particular word or words and apply the relevant keyword(s). It's not what you're looking for, but once you have used a keyword in C1, it's stored and can be easily used for other images.

    I also use hierarchical keywords as much as possible. Hence, by say, creating a hierarchy like Nature > Bird > Native bird > corvid > Australian Raven, I can enter all those keywords by entering "Australian Raven".

     

     

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter
    • Select both images (or as many as you want to have the same keyword).
    • The keyword tool shows you those images which are not set for both images (or not set for all images of the selected images) with a minus sign.
    • Clicking on the keyword copies this keyword  (and I believe its hierarchy) to all selected images.
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  • JoJu

    The question was "How can I copy keywords from one picture to another", right? My answer is "you can't copy them, they way BeO described is the only one". And as a little addendum: It only works, if you checked the "apply changes to all selected variants" button.

    But be careful. Trying to mark a couple of variants and apply some keywords to them can easily crash the app, at least in it's current, poorly developed 14.3 version. I never had that many crashes with any other C1 version. I think their quality control took a sabbatical.

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  • Rob D

    Shane, BeO, Joachim,

    Thank you, guys. All your hints are very helpful. I have no experience with CaptureONE, so all help is very much appreciated.

    I loved Lightroom for as long as I was able to use it. But I think C1 is even better (once I get to know it in-depth). It has an exceptional knowledge base, including the contextual help within the app. Also, I get better results editing photos.

    Now, I need to learn how to make all kinds of presets (for import, export and everything in between). I'm pretty sure I will get back to this forum with more questions...

    Thanks again, everyone.

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Good point Joachim, this toogle button is very important in general, and for the keyword copy it is essential.

    Rob, I found the webinar videos very helpful to learn C1, I think many of them are worth the time looking.

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  • Rob D

    Right. I watch the videos whenever I get a spare hour or so. 

    I found out that C1 does not handle modifying metadata too well (not just keywords). It takes literally hours and multiple tries to successfully change things like 'Creator', 'Description', etc that are already present in the database – even if I try to modify them in just a few photos at a time. And my catalog is very small at the moment (only around 550 images). Do you, guys, have a similar experience in this department?

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  • Marco Hyman

    Do you, guys, have a similar experience in this department?

    Sometimes the only solution I've found is to modify the original file outside of Capture One then tell Capture One to reload metadata.  It will complain if there are conflicts.   If I've done the job right I tell Capture One to use the file's metadata.

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  • Rob D

    Hi, Marco,

    I suspected this would be the solution. Could you, please, share your step-by-step methodology? That would be much appreciated by a newbie like myself.

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  • Marco Hyman

    Newbie to Capture One or newbie to computing?   The reason I ask is that my method requires the use of a terminal window and the command line.  Many are uncomfortable doing that.

    I use the free program "Exiftool" -- https://www.exiftool.org -- when I need to read and/or manipulate metadata.  The general steps are:

    • make sure images are backed up
    • use exiftool on the command line to modify the metadata.  The general format is "exiftool -metadata-tag=new-value" where metadata-tag describes the data I wish to change.   The exiftool web pages provide the actual metadata-tag values.
    • Open Capture One.  Select an image.  From the menu use Image -> Load Metadata

    I can often guess the metadata tag names by looking at the output of "exiftool image-file-name".  There are hundreds of things you can do with exiftool and I doubt I've used more than 5% of its capabilities.   The documentation isn't quite as scary when you ignore the things that are not of current interest to you.

    There are GUIs for exiftool.  I've never used them. I don't know how well they work.

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    make sure images are backed up

    I think this is very important, and as a precaution you should not overwrite your backup files with the raw files you have changed. That is because C1 can be quite picky with some changed raw files, I only know this for Nikon NEF files which are changed by Nikon software, but lessons learned I will never ever change a raw file again even if it works with todays software version. C1 does never change raw files either.

    If I use exiftool then for exported files only.

    The DAM features, particularly manual editing, are not overwhelming in C1, there is definitely room for improvement, but there are raw developers which don't have any or are much worse.

    The most efficient way for me is to edit metadata for one image and copy&apply it to others.

    You can also save user presets (from the metadata tool) and apply one or several presets on import (in the import tool "Adjustments"!) or after import in the "Styles and Presets" tool.

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  • Marco Hyman

    If you want to be perfectly safe....

    • sync metadata for your images in Capture One.  That will create xmp sidecar files
    • use exiftool to modify the sidecar file as if they were the image files
    • load metadata in Capture One.  It will read the updated XMP file.

    For this to work properly you may need to check the "Prefer Sidecar XMP..." option in the Image tab of Capture One preferences.

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  • Rob D

    Marco, BeO,

    I am a C1 newbie. Before that, I've been a Lightroom user since its first beta (as I mentioned at the top). I am not comfortable with the Terminal, either. I guess I could try it without giving myself a heart attack, but I'd rather avoid Terminal – if I could.

    Backing up is my "middle name". I do it for all my images, for my internal and external volumes and I back up my backups. But thanks for the warning.

    So, all things considered, I think I will persevere and try editing metadata on the image-by-image basis, hoping that this will not put me in a psychiatric hospital.

    save user presets (from the metadata tool) and apply one or several presets on import (in the import tool "Adjustments"!) or after import in the "Styles and Presets" tool.

    This is my ultimate goal. Do you think this will work with changing the existing metadata, though?

     

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Marco,

    wow, exiftool and sidecar files, I didn't think about that.

    Rob,

    C1 never alters the original image files.

    WIth a catalog there are 2 options to store metadata: (1) in the catalog database and (2) in the xmp sidecar files (see preferences). Go with the default (1) if you are new to C1. Setting metadata for the images (e.g. in the catalog database) with metadata presets will work.

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  • Rob D

    Yeah, I always prefer sidecar XMP files over embedded metadata. However, looks to me like using Exiftool to modify XMP files is still a single file affair? Or, is there a way to batch-process them?

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Ah, ok.

    Exiftool should be able to batch process many files:

    Improving Performance
    There is a significant overhead in loading ExifTool, so performance may be greatly improved by taking advantage of ExifTool's batch processing capabilities (the ability to process multiple files or entire directories with a single command)...

    [https://exiftool.org/ ]

     

    Do you know this article?

    https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002544898-Metadata-in-XMP-sidecar-files 

     

    But unless there is a good reason not to use the C1 catalog as a metadata editor (browser + metadata tool) and storage (and maybe to sync to xmp automatically or manually from within C1), using exiftool on xmp files would add additional complexity and the benefit is questionable imo.

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  • Rob D

    Hi, BeO,

    That article is pretty comprehensive, if a bit generic. It does not mention any of the difficulties with changing metadata that was previously written with Lightroom app.

    At the bottom of the comments section belonging to that article, I found one that says: "Currently I have found that the best approach for what I want is to delete any existing XMP file of my library, do the keywording in C1 and sync metadata. In this way C1 generates a new XMP file by itself without having to export the original files."

    I think this will be the best approach for me too, because I'd rather not introduce yet another app to my workflow, especially one that involves Terminal. It's gonna be one heck of a lot of additional work, but at least it should be pretty straightforward.

    Just because I'm curious, I imported to C1 a fresh control image that was never opened in Lightroom. Then, I compared its sidecar file with one written with Lightroom. In the second file I found a lot of Adobe b.s. That is probably the reason why C1 gets confused while trying to change the content of a sidecar file.

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  • Marco Hyman

    ... using exiftool on xmp files would add additional complexity and the benefit is questionable imo.

    The benefit is the desire to modify any of the many, many fields that Capture One does not support.  Want to adjust a timestamp?   Want to assign a GPS location?   Want to note the lens used on a camera that does not fill that in automatically?   Want to change just about anything other than the IPTC fields?  Capture One doesn't give you an option.   You'll have to use some other program.

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  • Rob D

    True. In my case, though, it's only 'creator' ('creator' seems to automatically populate the 'owner', which is another quirk I don't know how to explain) and 'description'.

    Any way you look at this issue, I think C1 has a huge room for improvement (without comparing to other image editors that have cataloguing abilities).

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Sure Marco, not all fields are supported by C1 or they are not editable, that's actually a very good point.

    I have only one case though, and only rarely. For images taken with a vintage non-CPU lens I add a keyword in C1, so I have this information for the image in the catalog for organizational purposes. When I publish an image to the internet I use exiftool to add the lens description and focal length to the respective tags, and sometimes the used aperture.

    This is a manual step, i.e. I dragdrop the jpgs to a predefined batch file containing the exiftool command (Windows Explorer). I have one file for each lens.

    The drawback is that every further export of the same image would have to go to the same manual step again. If the lens were stored already in the xmp file this would not be necessary anymore on export. I like this idea.

    Can you describe your workflow?

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Yes Rob, there is room for improvement. This forum has the Feature Request topic for a good reason... :-)

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  • Marco Hyman

    Can you describe your workflow?

    I'll try.   Mostly I do something similar to what you are doing, but in a different order.  Because you have expressed your desire to not modify the original file in any way I'll describe what I'd do using XMP files.  That adds a few steps, but is no doubt safer.   As I mentioned above, make sure the "Prefer Sidecar XMP..." option is checked in Capture One preferences.

    1. I never used Lr or Capture One or any other program to import my images off of memory cards.   I have a shell script that copies the files from memory card to my photos drive.  After the copy the script does a bitwise compare.   If the files are identical the copy of the image on the memory card is deleted.
    2. Create an XMP file from the image file.  This could be part of the shell script that copies the images to my photos drive.   The exiftool command is "exiftool -tagsfromfile SRC.EXT DST.xmp".
    3. Modify the created XMP files as desired. You could drop them onto your batch files to set or change needed metadata.
    4. Import your images into Capture One if using a catalog. If using sessions all you need to do is visit the folder containing the images. If you make that folder a favorite it will add image metadata to the session database to facilitate future image searches.

    And that is it. From that point on you can modify metadata in Capture One (if allowed) and sync the changes to update the xmp files on disk. Or you can remove the xmp files on disk as they aren't really needed once the image is in Capture One.

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  • Rob D

    This forum has the Feature Request topic for a good reason... :-)

    Yes, but I don't think I am qualified to make that kind of requests yet – while I am just starting to learn and explore C1. I need to start at the very beginning, do some experimentation, learn a lot from tutorials and listen to more experienced users (like Marco, yourself and others) before I can think of requesting new features. That's why I created this thread.

    I am stumped by some metadata I am getting on freshly made images (that were never opened with anything but C1), but I think I will need to create a separate thread for that. Or should I just continue with new questions in this thread?

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    @Marco

    Thank you. This is a very interesting workflow for this use case. I wonder if I could set / change keywords of .cos files too. I will try this eventually but currently I use my vintage lenses less than rarely.
    My current issue is rather that I am not happy with how I set up my catalogs (which I came from) and sessions (which favor now) and how to marry them to a consistent concept, partly due to my own confused mind and partly due to how sessions and catalog play together. I need to figure that our first.

    @Rob

    First, I like your attitude regarding feature requests.

    Second: Well that's up to you but if the issue is different than it might deserve its own thread.

     

     

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  • Rob D

    Actually, my first question has to do with the metadata, so I will continue here.

    So, I will start with the general info.

    1. I removed all sidecar files from the folder I intended to import to my freshly made C1 catalog. These photos were never opened in Lightroom, only in C1.
    2. I made sure that the Import tool included 'Copyright' and 'Description' (same for all images).
    3. I imported around 870 images.

    Now, the issue:

    Before I had a chance to review and modify any metadata, I noticed that for some reason, C1 picked up some metadata that it was not supposed to. Here's a sample screenshot of metadata from a single selected photo:

    Where are all those multiple instances of years coming from?

    What's equally puzzling to me is the fact that the EXIF 'Owner' got automatically populated by the same data as the IPTC 'Creator' and 'Owner' can not be changed! Is that something C1 does on import by default, or is there something wrong in my understanding/executing imports?

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  • Marco Hyman

    I believe the Owner field comes from the Camera.   It can not be changed in Capture One.  In my case I use a custom metadata preset that sets creator, name, address, website, copyright, etc.  The preset is applied to every image I import.   Capture One stores the preset in this folder:

    Library/Application\ Support/Capture\ One/Presets60/Metadata/

    If I didn't use the preset I don't know what Capture One would do.

    Note: I can edit the IPTC - Contact fields.   I don't think your statement that 'Creator' can not be changed is correct.

    Anyway, use the exif reader of your choice to read the values from the original file.  That will tell you if Capture One did something funny or if it came from the Camera.

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  • Rob D

    Hey, Marco,

    I don't think your statement that 'Creator' can not be changed is correct.

    Actually, this is what I said:

    'Owner' can not be changed!

    I only noticed that when I modify the 'Creator', same modification gets automatically applied to the 'Owner' as well, but not always.

    I am still not quite ready to start making presets. There is simply so much to learn before I can get to presets, but I will definitely use them in the near future...

    What is your preferred EXIF reader?

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  • Marco Hyman

    exiftool because I always have a terminal window open and have been using the command line (or equivalent -- operator console) since my days as a mainframe computer operator back in the early '70s  :-)

    There are various GUIs that wrap around exiftool.  Don't know how good/bad they may be.  I've never used them.

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  • Rob D

    OK, so I just deleted my 'Copyright' and 'Creator' custom data within my Canon camera. Now, I will try to import a newly taken image and see what happens in C1. I'll let you know.

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  • Rob D

    Success: after I removed the custom metadata from my camera, the 'Creator' and the 'Owner' boxes are empty in C1. Big thanks for the hint you gave me! Now, I will be trying to remove that metadata from photos that were taken earlier. I think I got an idea – I'll let you know...

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  • Rob D

    Hi, Marco,

    The idea I mentioned in previous post turned out to be rubbish...

    I've reviewed the README file that came with Exiftool, but it all looks incomprehensible for me. I'm sure that with your computer-sciences background, it all makes perfect sense to you. I wonder if I might possibly ask you to share with me the detailed workflow you are using, but I have no idea how to reach you privately. Apparently, this forum is not designed to work with Private Messages (or am I wrong about that?).

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