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Help Understanding ICC

FirstName LastName

I've been reading about the ICC profiles that come preset in C1. I think I understand this correctly but was hoping someone could confirm:

If I shoot RAW on a Nikon Z6II but instead of using the Z6II ICC profile, I manually switch it to Canon 1DsIII ICC profile... is it applying a more similar color profile to the 1DsIII to my RAW file?

Thanks!

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6 comments

Date Votes
  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    I suspect that that wouldn't necessarily make your Z6ii images look as though they came from the 1DSIII. The ICC profiles provided are intended to give you could colour rendition from the camera, and in particular the sensor, that they are designed for. Every sensor being different, applying the profile for the wrong camera is unlikely to give you better results than the right profile. 

    Do you have a reason to be unhappy with the Z6ii profile?

    Ian

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  • FirstName LastName

    Thanks for the response. I think this is where I'm a little confused. As I understand it, RAW images are pretty flat. Are the ICC profiles applying a color formula to these flat images?

    In my testing of the using a Canon 1DsIII profile on the Z6II, I'm actually happier with the color rendition. It's subtle but there's slightly more magenta to skin tones and slightly warmer overall. For contrast, I did not like how the R5 profile worked on the Z6II.

    I guess I'm just trying to figure out exactly what is going on when I apply these profiles. Thank you for your help.

     

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  • Permanently deleted user

    The camera profiles are built by the Capture One staff in order to give the most pleasant look for the camera you are using. You can also play with the TRC curves (just below ICC profile) if you are not happy with the result. And of course you can always open your images with a profile different from the one of your camera, if you prefer other profiles. It's up to you...

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  • BeO
    • Edited
    Top Commenter

    The camera profile is a correction of colors for the raw file. Correction in the sense of it modifies the raw file content such that a specifc color goal is achieved. This goal can be "accurate" colors, "beautiful" colors, "odd" colors, colors that mimick the color rendition of somthing else e.g. an ancient color TV, Polaroid instant photo colors, or Nikon Vivid colors.

    The point is, these profiles start from the raw file of the specific sensor (not yours but from the camera C1 had in their hands), e.g. the Z6II,  and contain the corrections needed to achieve their goal. I think we can safely assume that a Generic profile for the Z6II has the goal to create an accurate as possible but beautiful and convincing image, and the Canon 1DsIII profile tries to achieve this too, but as the starting point (the sensor/raw file) is different to the Nikon file, the corrections in the profile must be different.

    Definitely the Canon 1DsIII profile is not meant to create Canon 1DsIII jpg colors from any other manufacturers sensors (I would like to have such profiles though).

    https://learn.captureone.com/blog-posts/the-never-ending-quest-for-authentic-color/ 

    With this being said, if you like the Canon profile applied to the Nikon data better then you can use it. And maybe they actually are closer to Canon colors. I could imagine this if two things come together: (1) the raw files from Canon and Nikon are not much different and (2) the goal from C1 for the Canon profile included to get close to Canon jpg colors.

    Just make sure your monitor is profiled/calibrated and pay attention that your surrounding/room is half-way neutral so you can trust your monitor and your eyes...

    I am not sure you would use the best profile for the Z6II though if you used a profile not meant for your camera, it might be better to use one of the Z6II profiles and create a style with some mild tweaks to your liking, and apply this style to all your images.

     

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  • FirstName LastName

    Thanks for all comments and the detailed explanation. I think what BeO laid out is what I was assuming. I'll keep playing with this but appreciate some others insight into the what's happening.

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  • SFA
    • Edited

    "Just make sure your monitor is profiled/calibrated and pay attention that your surrounding/room is half-way neutral so you can trust your monitor and your eyes..."

    So true.

    Also, consider how your eyes respond to influences. As I get older I find that trivial little considerations, like "colour inversion" retention patches in everyday visualisations have a lot more effect than I can recall from younger times. 

     

    Long, intense and colour related editing sessions may need to be carefully monitored for unexpected influences as one ages.

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