Timeline for Nikon Z9 lossy compressed File supprt
Hi,
when will Capture One support the new compressed RAW files for the Nikon Z9? They have excellent quality and reduce the file size by 40%.
This is my top priority feature request for C1.
-
My understanding is that intoPIX, the company that created the codec (TICO) used for the Z9 lossy RAW images has not yet released an ARM version of the SDK and that this is the reason that support for Z9 lossy RAW image support is missing from pretty much all image software. There are GPU (AMD + NVIDIA) and Intel and AMD CPU versions of the SDK so I'm not sure why no-one has used them as a stopgap, but it is what it is. As good as the Z9's HE and HE* may be I think they goofed by using a codec that isn't supported by its creator.
0 -
I just downloaded a trial of captureOne last night - I wanted to break from Lightroom - and Adobe's grip. I started by loading up a directory or two of images I had on the disk already - things were going great. I liked the changes, the tools and the results.
Then I connected a card - and fumbled around until I came to the forums here to find that it just was not going to happen. Change how and what I shoot, or don't use captureone.
Shortest trial in history. Why does Adobe's NEF to DNG intake work fine on the HE* files and you are bricked with capture one for a workflow?
NOT an Adobe fan boy - I wanted to work with something else - I wanted to change (I have been using Lightroom since V1 many many years ago.
If there was an excuse - Captureone is not forthcoming with it. What I did find was the boilerplate 'thank you for your suggestion' thing - Really? Sounds like Adobe... So much for community..
So much for captureone.
0 -
Permanently deleted user
when will Capture One support the new compressed RAW files for the Nikon Z9?
Capture One has a policy of not pre-announcing development/support changes, so you'll know when it happens.
Capture One is not forthcoming with it.
Correct. See above.
And read this, maybe:
TL; DR: don't blame Capture One - everyone is in the same boat - blame Nikon for adopting a proprietary, closed format that its owners, Intopix, aren't helping anyone to make use of the files.
1 -
Well, ever since I contacted intoPix, the developers of TiCoRAW, they have been inviting me to ‘book a meeting’ with them at the various conferences they attend.
They are currently sling for Embedded World. If anyone is in Nurnberg, they are in Booth 4a-639s. You can talk to them directly and in person.
I think the bit needed to make this happen is an ARM/ Apple M1 SDK.
So if you are in the area and have some time…
0 -
Well,
Even if all the above is true, this does create bad buzz for the editors, except maybe Adobe as they can do something with such files, maybe not as perfect as it should be but at least it is working (I had to "save" some images as C1 was not able (wanted ?) to import them. I am therefore stuck with 5 full days of images I cannot edit within my normal workflow which is not nice at all in terms of security / backup strategy and so on.
No counting the fact the files are pretty heavy with the Z9 and like we now can shoot more image/sec overall we do make more images than before, cards and HDD are not that cheap at the end.
I do not see why the editors, not only CaptureOne, are not pushing harder Nikon on this, I am not alone asking this implementation since months ... Should I remind everyone there is more than 9 months now the Z9 is on the shelf ...
In my former business such situation it would have lead to a class action in front of court ...
0 -
Philippe, I take the view that until they're properly supported the High Efficiency modes just don't exist. It's possible, but unlikely, that they may never be supported so I'm shooting everything in lossless compressed. I'm saving copies of all of my best photos in linear DNG which is 3 time larger which stings, but individual lossless NEFs aren't all that big... the problem is that the Z9 takes 1200 photos per minute, so I'm judicious with my frame rate and culling files mercilessly when reviewing them.
Oh, and be careful with Adobe Camera Raw conversion. I haven't tried it, but I've seen reputable reports (with examples) that indicate there are issues with excessive noise in mids and shadows for Z9 files, especially at high saturation. You can mitigate it somewhat by tweaking NR and sharpening settings.0 -
It looks like I am forced to continue shooting lossless NEF until C1 supports the new file format. It is not worse than with the files from the Z7 and Z7II, but sad that on apparently very good compression format can only be used in Nikons editing software, which probably very few pros use.
0 -
Hello,
how did Lightroom get the codec? they can read it.
0 -
From the Adobe Camera Raw "Cameras Supported" page:
Nikon High Efficiency raw compression modes are currently not supported on:
- Windows ARM64
- ARMv7 and x86 for Android
So ACR has split their software capabilities based on the platform -- Apple and Windows has HE raw support, ARM does not. It seems that the other software developers aren't willing to do that. I just checked the intoPIX TicoRAW page and their SDK still doesn't support ARM. I guess someone could try reverse engineering the format, but it'd be a lot of work for just one camera (even if it is the Z9). LibRaw is the most likely bet, but they move very slowly (not yet supporting even lossless Z9 files).
0 -
According to nikoncafe, intoPix has released an SDK for ARM/M1. IT still requires testing, and then integration into your favorite RAW processor.
3 -
I just kinda find it very worrying. As a PC user, so if it hasn’t been released for ARM then c1 doesn’t release it at all? So if one day another camera brand releases for arm only then c1 stop updating releasing new c1 for intel users? It’s not like c1 is using the same compiler for arm and intel. Many of us still use intel and many of the intel laptops are still way faster than m1max (at least mine is)
0 -
@Andrea wee That hardly seems likely. There are plenty of Windows users out there, even more than Mac users, I hear. No one wants to maintain two code bases with two different feature sets and all of the support requests that go with it.
When you need AA batteries for your flash, you may not elect to go to the store and get more AA's at that time. It's a hassle and it costs gasoline. So you wait until you are going to the store anyway to get AA's AND AAA's for your wireless triggers at the same time. It isn't like you stopped to consider never using AA batteries again just because you waited until you needed AAA's to save yourself some trouble. You can insert any analogy that makes you happy, but it really is that simple.
Of course, if you REALLY needed the AA batteries for an important shoot, you would pack up and get it done. But if it was just a very small subset of your business that wasn't terribly urgent (not like that client can go anywhere else and get work as good as yours while you put off your trip to the store because the competition doesn't have those batteries either), then you are okay just waiting it out.
Besides, if you did rush and get the batteries, you might end up with Supervolt instead of Energizer, and then your flash might not work as well as intended, leaving said clients angry at your low quality work and more inclined to go with the competition PLUS you have to pay someone to answer the phones and listen to them complain.
Now, I fully intend to migrate to whatever will get me the support I need about as fast as I can, and I am not all gruntled about how long this is taking. I just understand how I wound up here.
1 -
I've been really relaxed about the lack of Z9 HE and HE* support, but I'm getting concerned that support will never be provided in Capture One 22 and will only be available from Capture One 23 onward. I would be very upset if I had to spend another ~$100 just to have full Z9 support.
0 -
Permanently deleted user
how did Lightroom get the codec? they can read it.
Adobe reverse-engineered it (and not very well, by all accounts - hence "preliminary").
They have the resources to do things like that.
0 -
Permanently deleted user
if it hasn’t been released for ARM then c1 doesn’t release it at all?
What - exactly - is Capture One supposed to release in this scenario?
0 -
@Keith R you really should read the thread. It answers both questions.
1. Adobe didn’t reverse engineer it. They run it under Rosetta 2, and it is kind of a rush job that has less than desirable quality.
2. The SDK has already been released to groups like Phase One, but they need time to integrate it and test it to make sure there aren’t any bugs. No one like buggy software.
3. If the SDK was never released, then we either de use to use the same 47MP RAW files that Z7 users deal with, or we use NX Studio, or we switch to Windows, or we go to Canon and use their 47MP RAW files that are the same size so netting us no benefit.
While on the subject, importing compressed RAW with NX Studio and converting them to TIFF with that or ACR effectively uncompressed the file back to the full size, at least in my experience. So it will save you a pin on the card, but that’s it. Hard drive space is the same, at least in my testing.
0 -
A competitor just released their newest version which does support the HE and HE* RAW files. I would expect others to follow soon, or you can look across the web and tell phase one, “we should see other people.”
0
Post is closed for comments.
Comments
17 comments