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Exporting to DNG

Comments

22 comments

  • Sergey Lisachev

    Hi Mark

    DNG by nature is a RAW format. Digital Negative Specification. What are you trying to achieve? You want your edits to be next to the original 'digital negative'? You want to export in the highest possible quality for print? You want to migrate with all edits?

    Depending on your answer there are different export scenarios

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  • Mark den Hartog

    Hi Sergey, 

    Thanks for reaching out.

    I would like to export my edit as a new 'digital negative'

     

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  • Sergey Lisachev

    It's not a negative anymore then. It's a 'print'. The only way I know of with regards to exporting 'negatives' with edits is EIP - it's also non-destructive and has the raw file with your edits packaged next to it. I believe it is a proprietary format though and you will be able to import that into C1 only. You can get those by selecting 'Export originals' in the File menu.

    As for edits - export them without compression as a TIFF file. That will be the closest to a version of the RAW, but not quite it. The application is kind of misleading you as it allows to select things like 'respect crop' but the completely ignores them and dumps an original RAW, I agree. 

    Maybe someone from CaptureOne can help you. 

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  • ---

    c1 does not fully support the DNG format only some elements so edits are not saved. 

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  • Mark den Hartog

    Thanks Sergey,

    I don't even know why it is there if it doesn't have this functionality. DXO has it. Lightroom has it. So please Capture one implement it or let me know what to do! 

    I am running a demo now and this little thing might persuade me to buy it. 

    I can open the new raw file as a smart-object in photoshop and if I have to do little tweaks I can do this in camera raw without having to export/import/export en import again.

    it would still be a negative, only the dynamic range might have been compromised because of the changes.

     

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  • ---

    if you need full dng support your only option is adobe software or with some limitations DXO, it is there because of cameras which do not have their on raw format like leica.  

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  • Mark den Hartog

    Hi CSP,

    I am just trying to figure out why there is a DNG export (with all kinds of settings) and in the end it looks exactly like the original raw. They should call it DNG converter. With export I expect the DNG to look exactly like my exported Tiff after editing in Capture One.

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  • Keith R
    Top Commenter

    I don't even know why it is there if it doesn't have this functionality

    Capture One doesn't keep its thinking secret (hint: there's this thing called Google...):

    https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002629937-Exporting-to-DNG

    https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002640058-Exporting-DNG-files

    Capture One - rightly, some will say - considers DNG to be a standardised archival format, a way to future-proof your original RAW files against the day when your converter of choice no longer supports your favourite old camera.

    Capture One makes virtually identical copies of DNGs in order to preserve the integrity of the originals.

    It therefore makes NO sense to include adjustments in an exported DNG, because then it's not a version of the original - which is the whole point of DNG - and completely in line with DNG's original archival/documented standard format intent: and this IS "full DNG support" as defined by Adobe:

    https://www.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/products/photoshop/pdfs/dng_spec_1.4.0.0.pdf

    Including "proprietary" data and adjustments is an EXTENDED function which takes DNG beyond its original archival purposes: that other converters may allow some adjustments to be written to DNG files is entirely beside the point - that's fundamentally not what DNG is for, and Capture One is treating DNG export in the correct spirit.

    With export I expect the DNG to look exactly like my exported Tiff after editing in Capture One.

    And you would be entirely wrong to do so.

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  • ---

    really ? as the dng file format does and allows to contain more information than just the GBR data your argument is total nonsense, not to speak about linear dng files.  where does adobe say dng files containing proprietary private data is not archival ? 

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  • Mark den Hartog

    Hi Keith,

    Big thanks for taking the time to answer this and trying to tell me that I am wrong.

    Point is, it is a silly feature when there is a free app from Adobe. Why include it if you can't save any data with it? 

    The fact that it doesn't do it, does not make it a bad idea to implement it. Just because you think it is BS doesn't mean it wouldn't have a purpose. I have been a tester for DXO and they took this function as a very serious matter. And I was happy with it because it fits my workflow so well. 

    I thought I was missing something or maybe that the paid version would do it or something like that.

    Have a great day! 

     

     

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  • Mark den Hartog

    One more thing it would be great for is to archive it! all edits stored forever with the option to tweak later within the raw format. 

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  • ---

    there is not doubt that a better dng support would be great for many user.  being able to store everything in one file instead maintaining a little zoo of sidecar files would be beneficial. the .eip file is a special joke as it is nothing more than a renamed zip..

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  • Mark den Hartog

    Amen! @CSP

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  • SFA

    @CSP.

    Many file types are little more than a renamed zip file (or similar technology) in concept. But if they have a specific purpose related to what they are for then it makes sense that the file should have its own name even if the technology deployed is used for many different situations.

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Point is, it is a silly feature when there is a free app from Adobe. Why include it if you can't save any data with it?

    Keywords, IPTC fields? These seem to be included.

    One more thing it would be great for is to archive it! all edits stored forever with the option to tweak later within the raw format.

    I would be interested where in the DNG specification raw converter adjustments and adjustment masks are mentioned, in which part of the file should this be stored? DXO does so?

    No doubt there is a use case for raw + adjustments in one file, and in C1 this is the EIP zip file.

    the .eip file is a special joke as it is nothing more than a renamed zip..

    And I am very glad about this because it means that the EIP file can be opened by other applications than C1 and access to the raw file is possible.

    I don't like though that the raw file is renamed as this creates hurdles when or after extracting a whole batch of eip files with other unzipping apps.

    I don't understand though why DNG files cannot be packed into EIP, which would give us an Adobe standard raw file plus C1 proprietary adjustments (those which you do to the DNG) in one file.

    This workflow would require a DNG conversion first, before doing image adjustments. Better would be a combined export of raw to DNG packed with adjustments done to the raw into the EIP.  (e.g. imagename.nef.dng.eip)

     

     

     

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  • Mark den Hartog

    "I would be interested where in the DNG specification raw converter adjustments and adjustment masks are mentioned, in which part of the file should this be stored? DxO does so?" 

    yes, they do. Not sure how, but I do know the files are humongous.

     "And I am very glad about this because it means that the EIP file can be opened by other applications than C1 and access to the raw file is possible."

    that would be fantastic if they would let us export a raw file including the edits :-) 

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    That's what C1 does, an export to EIP zip file contains the raw file (arw, nef, cr2, etc., but no dng),  it contains the edits and keywords in a settings file (.cos) and the layer masks (.comask).

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  • ---

    @beo

    not related to this topic but looking at the new 1.6 DNG version which now includes masks I found something interesting too

    • In Chapter 2, the section on “Camera Profiles” has been updated with information about triple- illuminant profiles.

     

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Interesting.

    Btw if i would be using DNG for its originally intended purpose, that is a standardization of the raw file data coming from the camera in order to be less dependent on camera-specific file formats which might not be supported in the future (an archival format for the raw file), then I would want to have a "clean" DNG, particularly without any "edits" information from any raw converter like C1, DXO, ACR or alike.

    If DXO bakes the user edits into the DNG file (without the option not to do so) DXO would then be a nogo for me (provided DNG was important to me).

    A new C1 export function which takes the raw file, converts it to a clean DNG, takes my edits (.cos) and masks (.comask) and packs all (but the original raw file) into the eip zip file (without renaming dsc1234.dng to 0.dng in that zip file) would be a good archival file for me.

     

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  • Mark den Hartog

    If you want a clean DNG it's best to use Adobe DNG converter.

     

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  • ---

    then I would want to have a "clean" DNG, particularly without any "edits" information from any raw converter like C1, DXO, ACR or alike.

    what is clean raw file ?  for me this is an illusion anyway because all kind of information is stored in a raw file beside basic camera data.  

    the beauty of dng is that as a photographer you can give your client a file which incorporates the look you want but is open to further editing and as there is probably nobody in the advertising or publishing industry which does not have adobe software installed it is also fool proof something you cannot say about c1.

    with some good will I think it would also possible for c1 to translate the c1 settings for arc as they are already  able to convert adobe to c1 settings.

     

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  • Davide De Martis

    This is so frustrating. I can agree with you until a certain point.

    There was a way to export a colored and developed dng. There was an option simple called export variant, I always used that so to send to my post producer a develop file that needed only re touch. Now it's gone and the DNG file has a totally different color when develop with camera raw, way different from what the camera saw. Can't get my head around it, we need that export variant function back, please.

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