C1 capture speed 7.1.3 vs 6.4.5 w/ Canon 5D3
Was experiencing slowness using C1 v7.1.3 tethered with a Canon 5D3. Previews were taking noticeably longer than v6 to render into anything remotely viewable. So on my off day I setup a test and here's what I found:
Did three rounds of 15 shot bursts on each version of C1. Exposure was ISO 400, 1/250 @ f/2.8. Camera settings were manual auto focus, slow burst mode, RAW only.
Times are the rounded-up averages of the three attempts. Clock started with the first press of shutter and stopped as soon as activity wheel disappeared and last preview was sharp.
6.4.5 = 27 seconds
7.1.3 = 54 seconds
Machine: Macbook Pro Retina - 2.7ghz i7, 16gb ram, 768 SSD (500+ GB free space), Nvidia GeForce 650M 1GB, OSX 10.8.4
Software: C1 6.4.5 & 7.1.3, both fresh installs with defaults left on, OpenCL set to Auto, Preview size 2400px (largest in 6.4.5) & 2560px (7.1.3)
Camera: Canon 5D Mk3 firmware 1.2.1, Canon 35mm f/2 (chosen because C1 doesn't have a lens profile for it, to keep things equal between both versions), Tether Tools 15' tether cable.
Does anyone else experience this difference in speed on set when tethered? What could be happening to make v7 so much slower?
Did three rounds of 15 shot bursts on each version of C1. Exposure was ISO 400, 1/250 @ f/2.8. Camera settings were manual auto focus, slow burst mode, RAW only.
Times are the rounded-up averages of the three attempts. Clock started with the first press of shutter and stopped as soon as activity wheel disappeared and last preview was sharp.
6.4.5 = 27 seconds
7.1.3 = 54 seconds
Machine: Macbook Pro Retina - 2.7ghz i7, 16gb ram, 768 SSD (500+ GB free space), Nvidia GeForce 650M 1GB, OSX 10.8.4
Software: C1 6.4.5 & 7.1.3, both fresh installs with defaults left on, OpenCL set to Auto, Preview size 2400px (largest in 6.4.5) & 2560px (7.1.3)
Camera: Canon 5D Mk3 firmware 1.2.1, Canon 35mm f/2 (chosen because C1 doesn't have a lens profile for it, to keep things equal between both versions), Tether Tools 15' tether cable.
Does anyone else experience this difference in speed on set when tethered? What could be happening to make v7 so much slower?
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Try turning of the automatic lens corrections and see if it makes any difference, just out of curiosity. 0 -
The lens used (Canon 35mm f/2) is not supported with a profile, so both versions are set to "Generic" with nothing checked and all corrections set to 0. 0 -
Just ran a second test, this time with only a single image captured. Here are the results:
Average times for 1 image captured...
6.4.5 = 5.5 seconds
7.1.3 = 4.7 seconds
Odd how on single images, v6.4.5 is slower. Yet with 15 images captured, it is significantly faster. I seriously don't get it. 🤓0 -
Not sure if this could be the cause for the discrepancies, but by chance did you open the activity window in C1 and make sure that C1 wasn't building previews for other images at the same time you were trying to import new ones. I know that C1, for some reason, will build previews and be done or take a break or something and then start building more previews or something else. It's hard to describe. I've pulled up the activity window and did nothing but watch it for a few minutes. It worked on some files and completed that task, took a break, then started doing something else, took a break, went back to what it was doing the first time. It seemed to never sit and idle. 0 -
never mind, just read the opening topic. 0 -
What is your preview size set to? 0 -
[quote="Christian Gr" wrote:
What is your preview size set to?
Not sure if your question was directed at me but my preview is set 1920, openCL is auto for both, on a Mac Pro 1,1 w/ 8 gigs RAM, ATI 5770 graphics card and multiple HDDs. Monitor is a 27" Apple Display set to 1920x1200.0 -
[quote="Christian Gr" wrote:
What is your preview size set to?
From the original post:
Software: C1 6.4.5 & 7.1.3, both fresh installs with defaults left on, OpenCL set to Auto, Preview size 2400px (largest in 6.4.5) & 2560px (7.1.3)0 -
[quote="Terence2" wrote:
[quote="Christian Gr" wrote:
What is your preview size set to?
From the original post:
Software: C1 6.4.5 & 7.1.3, both fresh installs with defaults left on, OpenCL set to Auto, Preview size 2400px (largest in 6.4.5) & 2560px (7.1.3)
I suggest you try a smaller preview size, like 1920 px.0 -
[quote="Paul_Steunebrink" wrote:
[quote="Terence2" wrote:
[quote="Christian Gr" wrote:
What is your preview size set to?
From the original post:
Software: C1 6.4.5 & 7.1.3, both fresh installs with defaults left on, OpenCL set to Auto, Preview size 2400px (largest in 6.4.5) & 2560px (7.1.3)
I suggest you try a smaller preview size, like 1920 px.
I ran these tests because of a problem that surfaced on set while digital teching a job and then again when I was just photo assisting and helping out the digital tech. We noticed that v7 when hit with a burst of images would display the activity window and the estimated time of completion would begin to grow from seconds, to minutes, to sometimes 30-60 minutes depending on how many images were coming down the buffer.
In both instances, the computers were the newer style Macbook Pros with Retina displays. I happen to also own a new Macbook Pro Retina, so I wanted to do my own tests and see what I could find. I wanted to share these tests to check if anyone else is experiencing these problems. Believe me when I say we tried *EVERYTHING* on set. We set the previews to 900/1280/1680px. We deleted preferences. We made new sessions. We turned off XMP syncing. We turned off OpenCL. We restarted the laptops. We changed tether cables. We even shot to card and then tried to download the images. But the only thing that "fixed" the problem and allowed us to tether successfully (by that I mean efficiently, so that the client could see the images as they were being shot and make selections without having to wait 5-10 minutes) was revert back to v6.4.5.
How could this happen on two different productions, two different computers, techs, cameras, etc? And my own tests are showing similar results that v7 is somehow vastly slower, like almost 2x slower.0 -
Can you explain a bit more?
- How long are your bursts?
- Do you have a lot of settings applied?
- What type of "Next capture adjustments" do you use?
- What mode does Camera -> Auto select new capture run in?
- Do you run in full-screen modes?
- How fast do you shoot?0 -
My bet is that auto select is set to immediate. I find that I have to set Camera>Auto Select to never or auto-pause when shooting in bursts other wise the files don't smoothly transfer. A good idea is to add the camera tool as a floating dialog so that you can see the images streaming in. If it starts to slow I stop advancing the previews, once that start to clear I click on the last preview. PLEASE PHASE can you add a pending files counter?
Its interesting that you are experiencing this with retina's, from my tests retina's have a substantial overhead for screen draws (my guess, based on running a script on two machines with/out retina screen). Also not all retina's are created equal. Ones with 8mb L2 cache seem to clear faster than others??
My 2cents0 -
thank you for doing this. been having the same issues and no longer using v7 0 -
[quote="Christian Gr" wrote:
Can you explain a bit more?
- How long are your bursts?
- Do you have a lot of settings applied?
- What type of "Next capture adjustments" do you use?
- What mode does Camera -> Auto select new capture run in?
- Do you run in full-screen modes?
- How fast do you shoot?
1. Bursts are typical of a fashion/portrait shoot. Maybe 5-6 shots, pause, 2-3 shots, pause, etc. We're not shooting sports.
2. Settings we had were: Contrast +10, Saturation -20, "contrast" curve, and white balance. Next capture adjustment is "Copy From Last".
3. Auto Select was set to "When Ready". We tried When Ready and Immediate.
4. Not full screen mode, but the window is expanded to the edges of the display.
5. The camera is in single shot mode and each shot is individually pressed. Like I said, it's typical for any fashion/portrait shoot. However, for my tests I set the camera to the 5D3's slow burst mode, which I believe is 3fps, for 15 shots just to keep the timing consistent.0 -
"A good idea is to add the camera tool as a floating dialog" - nice idea mate! 0 -
[quote="rapdigital" wrote:
My bet is that auto select is set to immediate. I find that I have to set Camera>Auto Select to never or auto-pause when shooting in bursts other wise the files don't smoothly transfer. A good idea is to add the camera tool as a floating dialog so that you can see the images streaming in. If it starts to slow I stop advancing the previews, once that start to clear I click on the last preview. PLEASE PHASE can you add a pending files counter?
Its interesting that you are experiencing this with retina's, from my tests retina's have a substantial overhead for screen draws (my guess, based on running a script on two machines with/out retina screen). Also not all retina's are created equal. Ones with 8mb L2 cache seem to clear faster than others??
My 2cents
My rMBP is a mid-2012 model with 256KB L2 cache per core (x4) and 8MB L3 cache. Regardless, my issue is the dramatic difference in speed between v6.4.5 and v7.1.3 on the same machine. The newer software is so much slower with everything else being equal and I'm trying to figure out why.0 -
Has this issue been resolved?
We are having similar problems.
Downloading cards to MPRO Tower using C1.7.1.3.
Previews are taking FOREVER.. its unworkable!
System Specs:
MPRO TOWER running 10.7.5
24GB RAM
2x 2.66GHZ 6-CORE INTEL XEON
ATI RADEON 5870
120GB SSD (SOLELY RUNNING C1 & PHOTOSHOP)
3 X 2TB INTERNAL DRIVES (1 X CAPTURE, 2 X BACKUP)
any suggestions how to speed things up, its driving us bonkers!0 -
Hey,
What setting have you set the "Image Preview" on preferences? I do find 7.1.3 slower in generating previews however not quite as dramatically as you have described. I'm sticking with 6.4.5 for a few months until all the bugs are ironed out.
Laimonas0 -
Maybe something is up with your ssd. Try C1 from that 2tb drive.
or
repair disk permissions, trash C1 prefs. ,clean uninstall-install of C1 7 ,
or
revert to C1 6.0 -
Not sure what is going on but I have the same thing shooting with an AptusII5. C17 is a pig, and that is being polite.
They have screwed up big time with this release, not that they will admit it and apologize or anything.
I have gone back to 6.4.5, which is disappointing, as there are some nice new features in 7, it is just too slow to actually use in front of a client.
And the point they keep missing is that we are talking about relative performance on the same machine. 6.4.5 is fine, 7.1.3 is not. Looks like I am going to have to buy another new computer, just to get the performance I used to have on the current one, now that's what I call progress.
Jason Berge.0 -
[quote="photo570" wrote:
Not sure what is going on but I have the same thing shooting with an AptusII5. C17 is a pig, and that is being polite.
They have screwed up big time with this release, not that they will admit it and apologize or anything.
I have gone back to 6.4.5, which is disappointing, as there are some nice new features in 7, it is just too slow to actually use in front of a client.
And the point they keep missing is that we are talking about relative performance on the same machine. 6.4.5 is fine, 7.1.3 is not. Looks like I am going to have to buy another new computer, just to get the performance I used to have on the current one, now that's what I call progress.
Jason Berge.
Can you please state your system profile here?
There's 2 years between V6 and V7. We could not have done the IQ improvement without requiring a more potent machine.
How you really have to compare is using a 3 year old (but back then fast) machine and 1 year old (but back then fast) machine, and then compare speed. That would be a fair comparison.
That said, we are always trying to improve speed, and from 7.1.2 to 7.1.3 we actually increased the speed on the CPU processing pipeline with 30-50 % (depending on what type of raw-file and what processor).0 -
27inch iMac, quad core i7 12gig ram, 1tb drive.
I understand that the rewrite may have been entirely necessary, and have yielded worthwhile results in terms of image quality, but the performance has suffered greatly, and your answer, and I shall be polite, is piffle. What a load of codswallop.
You are basically saying that to use C1 7 you need to buy a new machine to get the same performance as C1 6. Glad to here you think your customers will be OK with that.
Jason Berge.0 -
[quote="photo570" wrote:
27inch iMac, quad core i7 12gig ram, 1tb drive.
I understand that the rewrite may have been entirely necessary, and have yielded worthwhile results in terms of image quality, but the performance has suffered greatly, and your answer, and I shall be polite, is piffle. What a load of codswallop.
You are basically saying that to use C1 7 you need to buy a new machine to get the same performance as C1 6. Glad to here you think your customers will be OK with that.
Jason Berge.
What Graphics adapter do you have in that?
Your machine should be able to run CO7 just fine, so maybe we could have a look at your setup and flow if you create a Support case.0 -
[quote="Christian Gr" wrote:
That said, we are always trying to improve speed, and from 7.1.2 to 7.1.3 we actually increased the speed on the CPU processing pipeline with 30-50 % (depending on what type of raw-file and what processor).
I would love to know which raw files and processors can get 30-50% faster processing pipelines (whatever that means to the end-user) between 7.1.2 and 7.1.3.
Seriously, on set the other day and we were shooting a celebrity portrait. Lots of pressure, very little time (we had two hours with the person - including hair/makeup/wardrobe). Shooting Canon 5D3 to a 2012 MBP Retina with 768gb SSD and 16GB ram on C1 7.1.3. The fashion editor and publicist are making comments about the slowness of the previews showing on screen. The fashion editor jokes that waiting for the preview to come into focus was like waiting for Polaroids to develop back in the ol' days. Wasn't a fun day, let me tell you.0 -
Hi Terance2,
You are "wasting your breath" so to speak, Phase One will never just admit that C17 is a joke and that they have screwed up with this release and fix it. Just do what everyone else who needs to shoot tethered in a pressure situation has done, and go back to 6.4.5 (if you can), much easier than banging your head against the wall here.
Jason. ☹️0 -
[quote="Terence2" wrote:
[quote="Christian Gr" wrote:
That said, we are always trying to improve speed, and from 7.1.2 to 7.1.3 we actually increased the speed on the CPU processing pipeline with 30-50 % (depending on what type of raw-file and what processor).
I would love to know which raw files and processors can get 30-50% faster processing pipelines (whatever that means to the end-user) between 7.1.2 and 7.1.3.
Seriously, on set the other day and we were shooting a celebrity portrait. Lots of pressure, very little time (we had two hours with the person - including hair/makeup/wardrobe). Shooting Canon 5D3 to a 2012 MBP Retina with 768gb SSD and 16GB ram on C1 7.1.3. The fashion editor and publicist are making comments about the slowness of the previews showing on screen. The fashion editor jokes that waiting for the preview to come into focus was like waiting for Polaroids to develop back in the ol' days. Wasn't a fun day, let me tell you.
All raw files will benefit from this. Especially "older" processors (2-3 years old) will benefit most.
I will take your quote to the right people.
Thank you for keeping your comments in a proper tone.0 -
[quote="photo570" wrote:
Hi Terance2,
You are "wasting your breath" so to speak, Phase One will never just admit that C17 is a joke and that they have screwed up with this release and fix it. Just do what everyone else who needs to shoot tethered in a pressure situation has done, and go back to 6.4.5 (if you can), much easier than banging your head against the wall here.
Jason. ☹️
Of course he isn't. We always listen, but the process takes times. There's no magic wand that would fix everything at one go.0 -
[quote="Christian Gr" wrote:
[quote="Terence2" wrote:
[quote="Christian Gr" wrote:
That said, we are always trying to improve speed, and from 7.1.2 to 7.1.3 we actually increased the speed on the CPU processing pipeline with 30-50 % (depending on what type of raw-file and what processor).
I would love to know which raw files and processors can get 30-50% faster processing pipelines (whatever that means to the end-user) between 7.1.2 and 7.1.3.
Seriously, on set the other day and we were shooting a celebrity portrait. Lots of pressure, very little time (we had two hours with the person - including hair/makeup/wardrobe). Shooting Canon 5D3 to a 2012 MBP Retina with 768gb SSD and 16GB ram on C1 7.1.3. The fashion editor and publicist are making comments about the slowness of the previews showing on screen. The fashion editor jokes that waiting for the preview to come into focus was like waiting for Polaroids to develop back in the ol' days. Wasn't a fun day, let me tell you.
All raw files will benefit from this. Especially "older" processors (2-3 years old) will benefit most.
I will take your quote to the right people.
Thank you for keeping your comments in a proper tone.
Christian,
I take it that comment was directed at me.
I apologise if my frustrations are not appreciated, but the previous replies I have received have been patronising at best. Blaming others rather than addressing the issue that numerous customers are having with performance is the real problem, not me getting a bit snarky.
Kind regards,
Jason.0 -
[quote="Terence2" wrote:
[quote="Christian Gr" wrote:
Shooting Canon 5D3 to a 2012 MBP Retina with 768gb SSD and 16GB ram on C1 7.1.3. The fashion editor and publicist are making comments about the slowness of the previews showing on screen. The fashion editor jokes that waiting for the preview to come into focus was like waiting for Polaroids to develop back in the ol' days. Wasn't a fun day, let me tell you.
Shoot to a Mac Pro with 2x 4 core or 2x 6 core processors and you'll see a big speed increase. Or if speed is really important on a celeb shoot - use a Phase Back over firewire. USB DSLR's and laptops are not the fastest hardware combinations out there. I mostly use Canons and a MBP on shoots b/c we need flexibility and to travel light but there is a trade off.0 -
im sure there is a tradeoff, bringing this backup to see if there is any improvement with the 7.1.4 version? i really like the features with v7, but am happy with 6 for the stability. 0
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