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Capture One Pro 20

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92 comments

  • Robert Whetton
    did you head over to www.fastspring.com ?

    fwiw all mails i've ever received are from noreply@phaseone.com
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  • Ian Wilson
    I ordered it in advance and my reply and my reply and licence code came through Fastspring.

    Ian
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  • Paul Lunnon
    Yes I did visit Fastspring.com and there was a license key there. My query is that there has been no official announcement from Phase One and I supposedly purchased this product 28th October nearly a month ago and have heard nothing.
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  • Ian Wilson
    I think the assumption was that it would be released around the end of November. In previous years, when a new version was released, they would offer a free upgrade to the new version to customers who had bought the old one within the previous 30 days. This year they seem to have announced in advance, near the end of October, that purchasers of v12 would get a free upgrade to v20. Hence the assumption that we were about 30 days or so away from the new version.

    Ian
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  • Christopher Dubea
    I'm completely gobsmacked by the image quality I can get out of C1 v12 with not a lot of time/effort. Kudo's for that P1. You hooked me with the Fuji Express Edition. Enough to drop the coin for the whole shebang.

    What I'm not gobsmacked with is workflow. Sessions are great, I get it. But they are designed for a fairly singular purpose which is not how I work.

    The number one requirement that Capture 20 must meet for me to plunk down any more of my hard earned money is a FUNCTIONING catalog system. Doesn't need to be anywhere near as fully developed as some of the other DAM's, but it must be functional.

    I've been a DAM user for some 10 years, including iView Media Pro (RIP), and am not interested in changing my workflow from a catalog based one. I like a monolith catalog with all my imagery that I continue to browse through even 20 years later. And with the enhanced capability of C1 there is a reason to go back and browse as the images are getting better. This is huge. David Grover was discussing that a bit on one of the podcasts and it is really so. There is a reason to revisit old images with new software. The technology is better and thus better final images are doable.

    I've got about 60k images in my storage cache and honestly C1 can barely handle that. Much of the functionality is broken due to being at the limits of the current software's capabilities. Synchronizing a my drive when new folders have been added is ludicrous. I tried that the other day. It took about 6 hours to decide I needed to import virtually every file on the drive, and then after about 13 hours of churning, it was only about 1/2 done. I filed a support case, but I'm pretty certain I know what the response is gonna be.

    The catalog system on C1 should be able to handle 100k images without issue. Seriously.

    Happy Thanksgiving to all!
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  • IanS
    doobs wrote:
    I'm completely gobsmacked by the image quality I can get out of C1 v12 with not a lot of time/effort. Kudo's for that P1. You hooked me with the Fuji Express Edition. Enough to drop the coin for the whole shebang.

    What I'm not gobsmacked with is workflow. Sessions are great, I get it. But they are designed for a fairly singular purpose which is not how I work.

    The number one requirement that Capture 20 must meet for me to plunk down any more of my hard earned money is a FUNCTIONING catalog system. Doesn't need to be anywhere near as fully developed as some of the other DAM's, but it must be functional.

    I've been a DAM user for some 10 years, including iView Media Pro (RIP), and am not interested in changing my workflow from a catalog based one. I like a monolith catalog with all my imagery that I continue to browse through even 20 years later. And with the enhanced capability of C1 there is a reason to go back and browse as the images are getting better. This is huge. David Grover was discussing that a bit on one of the podcasts and it is really so. There is a reason to revisit old images with new software. The technology is better and thus better final images are doable.

    I've got about 60k images in my storage cache and honestly C1 can barely handle that. Much of the functionality is broken due to being at the limits of the current software's capabilities. Synchronizing a my drive when new folders have been added is ludicrous. I tried that the other day. It took about 6 hours to decide I needed to import virtually every file on the drive, and then after about 13 hours of churning, it was only about 1/2 done. I filed a support case, but I'm pretty certain I know what the response is gonna be.

    The catalog system on C1 should be able to handle 100k images without issue. Seriously.

    Happy Thanksgiving to all!


    If DAM is that important to you then you need to stick with LR, ACDSee, or IMATCH etc. C1Pro has a DAM capable of handling small catalogue 30,000 but is never going to rival LR for DAM capability. Products have their niches and with C1Pro it is image quality and speed. A limited DAM capability works for the user base, many of whom use sessions anyway and for example don't want the constraints of a catalogue. Products can't be all thing to all men ☹️

    Nothing to see here, move along 😊 😊
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  • Ian Leslie
    I am very much in agreement with @doobs regarding how he works and how he hopes that C1 gets some performance boosts in new versions. If you and others are happy with sessions I think that is great, I have found them useful as well, if you are happy with small catalogues - that's cool too. All those of us like @doobs are looking for is some considerations so that searching a 60K catalogue for a handful of keywords doesn't take 15 - 20 minutes. This is simple SQL query stuff that should take seconds. C1 seems to be scanning files by the thousands for information that should be in the database (supposition based on support discussions and my experiments not verified insider information).

    I have used smart albums to create collections by year that greatly reduce issues with such searches but its a work around - one that I can work with for a while.

    Nothing to see here move along 😄
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  • Christopher Dubea
    IanL wrote:
    I am very much in agreement with @doobs regarding how he works and how he hopes that C1 gets some performance boosts in new versions. If you and others are happy with sessions I think that is great, I have found them useful as well, if you are happy with small catalogues - that's cool too. All those of us like @doobs are looking for is some considerations so that searching a 60K catalogue for a handful of keywords doesn't take 15 - 20 minutes. This is simple SQL query stuff that should take seconds. C1 seems to be scanning files by the thousands for information that should be in the database (supposition based on support discussions and my experiments not verified insider information).

    I have used smart albums to create collections by year that greatly reduce issues with such searches but its a work around - one that I can work with for a while.

    Nothing to see here move along 😄


    Thank you!

    Don't get me wrong, I love what C1 has done for my post processing. I would love to love it's organization capabilities.

    I'm not looking for any more features to be added to the set, I just want the one that are there to work, independent of how many images are in the catalog.

    As a work around, I'm using xnView MP. I like it's capability a lot, it's simple and fast. It's not a DAM as it doesn't have a "database", but frankly that doesn't hurt my head.
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  • Jim MSP
    doobs wrote:
    IanL wrote:
    ... If you and others are happy with sessions I think that is great, I have found them useful as well, i...... 😄



    Don't get me wrong, I love what C1 has done for my post processing. I would love to love it's organization capabilities.

    I'm not looking for any more features to be added to the set, I just want the one that are there to work, independent of how many images are in the catalog.
    ....


    I had given up on C1 years ago for its DAM after they screwed up and killed Media Pro. They pushed me to Lightroom where I have >140,000 images cataloged. I still used C1 to process some of my really good shots, albeit one at a time. I have already gone the route of trying to use a small C1 catalog (or multiples).

    Anyway, I am a user of C1 ver 12 along with LR. I use LR as my DAM and initial processor. I use LR to import, cull, keyword, and rate my photos. I use LR to process my standard keepers, and C1 to process the really good ones. I am still fine tuning a good working system that combines LR and C1, and I am settling in on C1 sessions. It gets a bit more complicated now, as C1 v12 does not read my new Canon 90D RAWs, so I have to give it a LR generated DNG. But I am pretty convinced that I can keep a really smooth workflow between LR and C1 with sessions.
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  • Paul Lunnon
    Hi all

    So loyalty means nothing we were offerd 20% discount on Pro 20 as loyal customers. Now under Black Friday everybody can get 30% will they be refunding my 10% to make the playing field level. We need someone from Phase One to explain their actions.

    Paul (UK)
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  • SFA
    phlpyro wrote:
    Hi all

    So loyalty means nothing we were offerd 20% discount on Pro 20 as loyal customers. Now under Black Friday everybody can get 30% will they be refunding my 10% to make the playing field level. We need someone from Phase One to explain their actions.

    Paul (UK)


    How do you get 30% off the V20 upgrade via Black Friday?
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  • Clau_S
    SFA wrote:


    How do you get 30% off the V20 upgrade via Black Friday?


    From the site

    BLACK FRIDAY OFFER

    Save 30% on Capture One products

    Use code: BLACK-FRIDAY-19. This offer expires in:


    It's reported on CO20 pre-order page too.
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  • Clau_S
    phlpyro wrote:
    Hi all

    So loyalty means nothing we were offerd 20% discount on Pro 20 as loyal customers. Now under Black Friday everybody can get 30% will they be refunding my 10% to make the playing field level. We need someone from Phase One to explain their actions.

    Paul (UK)


    Who is not a loyal customer, which I think only meant customer, have to buy a full license. He won't pay less than you. But I get your frustration. This means that who was eligible for pre-order (because already a customer) and waited until now has done well and there was no benefit for being early birds as pre-order was supposed to be. Honestly this makes no sense and sounds like a joke. They should have stopped pre-order before BF or leave it out of black friday discount. But then who was coming from 11 could buy the upgrade to 12 with 20 for free with 30% discount.
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  • SGR
    So loyalty means nothing we were offerd 20% discount on Pro 20 as loyal customers. Now under Black Friday everybody can get 30% will they be refunding my 10% to make the playing field level. We need someone from Phase One to explain their actions.


    That's not a fair position!
    They are betraying the trust of their customers!
    I think I made a mistake pre-ordering CO20, and not only for this disrespects, but also because i suspect that the novelties will not justify the price paid.
    I am really disappointed!
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  • SFA
    ClauS wrote:

    This means that who was eligible for pre-order (because already a customer) and waited until now has done well and there was no benefit for being early birds as pre-order was supposed to be.


    But I seem to recall someone reporting they had already pre-ordered and paid the discount price less an additional 10% from some other offer that was also around.

    So no difference in that case?


    Grant
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  • Clau_S
    SFA wrote:
    ClauS wrote:

    But I seem to recall someone reporting they had already pre-ordered and paid the discount price less an additional 10% from some other offer that was also around.
    So no difference in that case?
    Grant


    Yes, I remember. That extra 10% was due to one of the many 10% coupons on the web. So you had to know they existed and look for one. Now it's Phase One that is giving you a coupon on site and probably they preferred this method over a direct discount to avoid customers to reach 40%. So yes, you could have had a 30% even before, but it wasn't so obvious and immediate and eventually someone didn't take advantage of it. The point is that it's like those infomercial where they say "hurry up, this offer is going to expire soon" and three months later they're still offering the same or even a better deal. I doubt a customer will trust them next time.
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  • SGR
    SFA wrote:
    ClauS wrote:

    But I seem to recall someone reporting they had already pre-ordered and paid the discount price less an additional 10% from some other offer that was also around.


    Other offers only until October 31st.
    There are people like me that preordered early november and had to settle for 20%!
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  • SFA
    ClauS wrote:
    SFA wrote:
    ClauS wrote:

    But I seem to recall someone reporting they had already pre-ordered and paid the discount price less an additional 10% from some other offer that was also around.
    So no difference in that case?
    Grant


    Yes, I remember. That extra 10% was due to one of the many 10% coupons on the web. So you had to know they existed and look for one. Now it's Phase One that is giving you a coupon on site and probably they preferred this method over a direct discount to avoid customers to reach 40%. So yes, you could have had a 30% even before, but it wasn't so obvious and immediate and eventually someone didn't take advantage of it. The point is that it's like those infomercial where they say "hurry up, this offer is going to expire soon" and three months later they're still offering the same or even a better deal. I doubt a customer will trust them next time.



    Well, the additional 10% would hardly be a huge amount.

    I don't know about where you live but here in the UK 'Special Offers' are a well know fact of life for just about everything, especially in the Supermarkets where prices are manipulated on a daily basis to make claims of "Huge savings" justifiable.

    I think many people will buy only because they feel a compulsion to only buy if they can then claim they got an exceptional deal. Whether they really do get an exceptional deal is another matter. On the day, maybe. But wait a while and the same deal is likely to be repeated, maybe an even better one.

    People pay the price asked if they think it is acceptable or if they do not wish to wait for what they think the product offers them. I have a lot of software bought over the years at tremendous prices. 70 to 90% off. More in some cases. Good software when I bought it.

    Shame I never used it. Probably would not have bought it at full price. If it's not worth paying full price at 90% discount in a bundle it's probably worth taking a look anyway if one has any interest in what it does.

    20%, or even 30% discount is nice to have but should not be a deal maker compared to buying at a regular price. It might affect one's purchase timing but not the decision about the product and how it fits with what you need. At least not enough to be worked up about whether 10% makes a difference.

    Just my opinion of course.

    I will fully accept that other people, whether based on local expectation wherever they live or just on personal criteria, may have a completely different view. That is their right of course. I can think of other situations that are far more significant and worthy of an expression of disappointment.


    Grant
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  • Jim MSP
    ClauS wrote:
    ..... I doubt a customer will trust them next time.


    I have not trusted them since the Media Pro fiasco where they made significant promises, took my money, couldn't deliver, so they changed the spec, and never refunded us who paid early.

    Now they only get my money after I demo what will be delivered.
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  • Wesley
    ClauS wrote:
    SFA wrote:
    ClauS wrote:

    But I seem to recall someone reporting they had already pre-ordered and paid the discount price less an additional 10% from some other offer that was also around.
    So no difference in that case?
    Grant


    Yes, I remember. That extra 10% was due to one of the many 10% coupons on the web. So you had to know they existed and look for one. Now it's Phase One that is giving you a coupon on site and probably they preferred this method over a direct discount to avoid customers to reach 40%. So yes, you could have had a 30% even before, but it wasn't so obvious and immediate and eventually someone didn't take advantage of it. The point is that it's like those infomercial where they say "hurry up, this offer is going to expire soon" and three months later they're still offering the same or even a better deal. I doubt a customer will trust them next time.

    Those 10% ambassador codes ended a year ago. There was a 10% code from Phase One for the month of October. I think the issue here is the earlier November buyers missed the extra 10% from Oct code and now Black Friday. It looks fair to those buyers to ask support for a 10% reimbursement and they're still within 30 day grace period.
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  • Clau_S
    SFA wrote:


    Well, the additional 10% would hardly be a huge amount.

    I don't know about where you live but here in the UK 'Special Offers' are a well know fact of life for just about everything, especially in the Supermarkets where prices are manipulated on a daily basis to make claims of "Huge savings" justifiable.

    I think many people will buy only because they feel a compulsion to only buy if they can then claim they got an exceptional deal. Whether they really do get an exceptional deal is another matter. On the day, maybe. But wait a while and the same deal is likely to be repeated, maybe an even better one.

    People pay the price asked if they think it is acceptable or if they do not wish to wait for what they think the product offers them. I have a lot of software bought over the years at tremendous prices. 70 to 90% off. More in some cases. Good software when I bought it.

    Shame I never used it. Probably would not have bought it at full price. If it's not worth paying full price at 90% discount in a bundle it's probably worth taking a look anyway if one has any interest in what it does.

    20%, or even 30% discount is nice to have but should not be a deal maker compared to buying at a regular price. It might affect one's purchase timing but not the decision about the product and how it fits with what you need. At least not enough to be worked up about whether 10% makes a difference.

    Just my opinion of course.

    I will fully accept that other people, whether based on local expectation wherever they live or just on personal criteria, may have a completely different view. That is their right of course. I can think of other situations that are far more significant and worthy of an expression of disappointment.


    Grant


    I'm from Italy and we've got "special" offers too obviously. We say "tutto il mondo è paese" that means that the world is the same wherever you go. Especially regarding bad habits, like commercial policies and opportunities. We are good to import them and going too far. Black Friday did not even exist here until a few years ago. Now it's already lasting a month. I think it's going to fuse with Christmas in a very short time. Other than this, I was just supporting the other user point of view. I had said in another topic that I wouldn't have paid for CO20 sight unseen because that 20% discount didn't change my life, so I was not complaining about the additional 10% per se. It was a matter of principle. I mean you are free to offer what you want as you want but, if you really care about "loyal" customers, you should make them feel special and not cheated. It's been all about timing and respect in my opinion, but yes, business is business.
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  • SFA
    ClauS wrote:
    SFA wrote:


    Well, the additional 10% would hardly be a huge amount.

    I don't know about where you live but here in the UK 'Special Offers' are a well know fact of life for just about everything, especially in the Supermarkets where prices are manipulated on a daily basis to make claims of "Huge savings" justifiable.

    I think many people will buy only because they feel a compulsion to only buy if they can then claim they got an exceptional deal. Whether they really do get an exceptional deal is another matter. On the day, maybe. But wait a while and the same deal is likely to be repeated, maybe an even better one.

    People pay the price asked if they think it is acceptable or if they do not wish to wait for what they think the product offers them. I have a lot of software bought over the years at tremendous prices. 70 to 90% off. More in some cases. Good software when I bought it.

    Shame I never used it. Probably would not have bought it at full price. If it's not worth paying full price at 90% discount in a bundle it's probably worth taking a look anyway if one has any interest in what it does.

    20%, or even 30% discount is nice to have but should not be a deal maker compared to buying at a regular price. It might affect one's purchase timing but not the decision about the product and how it fits with what you need. At least not enough to be worked up about whether 10% makes a difference.

    Just my opinion of course.

    I will fully accept that other people, whether based on local expectation wherever they live or just on personal criteria, may have a completely different view. That is their right of course. I can think of other situations that are far more significant and worthy of an expression of disappointment.


    Grant


    I'm from Italy and we've got "special" offers too obviously. We say "tutto il mondo è paese" that means that the world is the same wherever you go. Especially regarding bad habits, like commercial policies and opportunities. We are good to import them and going too far. Black Friday did not even exist here until a few years ago. Now it's already lasting a month. I think it's going to fuse with Christmas in a very short time. Other than this, I was just supporting the other user point of view. I had said in another topic that I wouldn't have paid for CO20 sight unseen because that 20% discount didn't change my life, so I was not complaining about the additional 10% per se. It was a matter of principle. I mean you are free to offer what you want as you want but, if you really care about "loyal" customers, you should make them feel special and not cheated. It's been all about timing and respect in my opinion, but yes, business is business.


    Ah, ClauS, the American influence.

    The country that introduced the world to the concept of 13 selling periods in 12 months.

    😉

    I'm not sure it is possible to get the timing right in the world of the era in which we live.

    The expectation across the different generations and ages of consumers is perhaps too diverse.

    Maybe in the future things will either stabilise in agreement or fragment into something unmanageable as a PR activity.

    Perhaps different ages will only follow their own 'channels' and see only the 'offers' made to them.

    However it would be a lot easier, from a Sales Director's point of view, to simply take a few weeks of pain (maybe) and then enjoy the same success that, er, "others" seem to have found with a subscription only policy.

    Of course if the world of photography continues along its present trajectory, outside the cell phone world, little of this may matter anyway in the near future.

    Grant
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  • Irvin Gomez
    I stopped buying upgrades after v11 because it’s just too expensive, far more than the more complete PS/LR subscription. As simple as that. And, no, the ‘perpetual license’ argument is just bs for dumb customers: most versions don’t work with newer operating systems, so there is absolutely no value and your ‘perpetual license’ does have an expiration date.
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  • Keith Reeder
    Irvin.Gomez wrote:
    And, no, the ‘perpetual license’ argument is just bs for dumb customers: most versions don’t work with newer operating systems, so there is absolutely no value and your ‘perpetual license’ does have an expiration date.

    Correct - and this is equally true when your old software doesn't support your new camera, either.

    Which is of course, also an argument for continuing to upgrade.
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  • SFA
    Irvin.Gomez wrote:
    I stopped buying upgrades after v11 because it’s just too expensive, far more than the more complete PS/LR subscription. As simple as that. And, no, the ‘perpetual license’ argument is just bs for dumb customers: most versions don’t work with newer operating systems, so there is absolutely no value and your ‘perpetual license’ does have an expiration date.


    No it doesn't for at least as long as you keep the older and compatible hardware running.

    If you choose not to do that at some point one would assume you have weighed up the pros and the cons and decided that you no longer need the older kit and the older version. In other words you no longer need the license ... in which case there is no problem.

    Back in the days of film so long as the film sizes for any camera you owned were still in production and there was someone around who could repair the camera if necessary there was never a question of absolute redundancy of your kit.

    I would suggest that there is a greater chance of redundancy for camera kit (because you probably will not want to use the old stiff even if it still works and you can still get batteries for it) and the same goes for computers, their peripherals and the software that will run on whatever release of Operating System, etc. you have available.

    There is little or no difference between all aspects of photography and just about anything else with a technology basis in the 21st Century. Significant built in redundancy and obsolescence. Most of it far more costly than a year's worth of software enhancements and technical support (should it be needed) for some image processing software.

    Where do you end up if you accept a subscription deal but decide to end the subscription?



    Grant
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  • Clau_S
    Irvin.Gomez wrote:
    I stopped buying upgrades after v11 because it’s just too expensive, far more than the more complete PS/LR subscription. As simple as that. And, no, the ‘perpetual license’ argument is just bs for dumb customers: most versions don’t work with newer operating systems, so there is absolutely no value and your ‘perpetual license’ does have an expiration date.


    I get your point and I remember old discussions about what perpetual is (not). I agreed that perpetual is not perpetual unless you keep your system's state and subsequent drawbacks. In my case I really cannot like Lightroom compared to Capture One and I'd prefer to look for an alternative to PS to stop paying for photography plan which costs me almost the same as a CO upgrade. However, I was looking at prices. According to the actual ones I still cannot see an advantage in the subscription model. Considering one major release per year, If you're a new user you're going to save money just for a couple of years, but if you already own(ed) a license, the upgrade would be less expensive than a full prepaid year subscription. And you can decide to upgrade every two or three versions or when your system will not be able to handle this one, but should you be compelled to upgrade even every year, you'd still better go with license. Unless you pay per month skipping from time to time or unless PO accelerates major releases (and you're an upgrade addicted) or they change price policies, "perpetual" license is still the way to go, especially with very good deals.
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  • Irvin Gomez
    ClauS wrote:
    Irvin.Gomez wrote:
    I stopped buying upgrades after v11 because it’s just too expensive, far more than the more complete PS/LR subscription. As simple as that. And, no, the ‘perpetual license’ argument is just bs for dumb customers: most versions don’t work with newer operating systems, so there is absolutely no value and your ‘perpetual license’ does have an expiration date.


    I get your point and I remember old discussions about what perpetual is (not). I agreed that perpetual is not perpetual unless you keep your system's state and subsequent drawbacks. In my case I really cannot like Lightroom compared to Capture One and I'd prefer to look for an alternative to PS to stop paying for photography plan which costs me almost the same as a CO upgrade. However, I was looking at prices. According to the actual ones I still cannot see an advantage in the subscription model. Considering one major release per year, If you're a new user you're going to save money just for a couple of years, but if you already own(ed) a license, the upgrade would be less expensive than a full prepaid year subscription. And you can decide to upgrade every two or three versions or when your system will not be able to handle this one, but should you be compelled to upgrade even every year, you'd still better go with license. Unless you pay per month skipping from time to time or unless PO accelerates major releases (and you're an upgrade addicted) or they change price policies, "perpetual" license is still the way to go, especially with very good deals.


    I don’t worry about Capture One vs Adobe Subscription prices (even though Capture One is far more expensive if you want the latest and greatest every year) because for me Photoshop is a must. I’m a professional retoucher, not a Photographer. I love Capture One’s initial rendition of raw files and think it’s much better than Lightroom’s, which leads to a faster workflow. Similar results can be achieved with both applications, though. I also think the Adobe subscription is a much better value, but other people may think differently and that’s ok, too.
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  • Wesley
    If you're a pro retoucher than you must still have a PS CS6 license to use...? Nothing a pro can't do in CS6 that's in PS subscription with retouching. I would be using Affinity Photo now if I didn't buy PS CS6 in the past.

    Previous Capture One version still work with the new OS version so it's not required to upgrade yearly. Ver 9 still work, probably even older versions also.
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  • Clau_S
    Wesley wrote:
    Ver 9 still work, probably even older versions also.


    Actually, older versions won't. I had to upgrade to CO11 due to the incompatibility of CO8 with Windows 10. It could happen again with next OS versions.
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  • Keith Reeder
    SFA wrote:
    No it doesn't for at least as long as you keep the older and compatible hardware running.

    The issue is more around ongoing OS support, Grant - see ClauS' comment before this one.
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