Further improve multiple brush design (cf. universal brush, brush auto-selection)

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11 comments

  • Class A

    Here's David Grover explaining that he found using keyboard shortcuts 'b' and 'e' more efficient to toggle between brushing and erasing than turning the pen around on a tablet.

    "You can actually flip the Wacom pen upside down to automatically choose the eraser, but I actually find it faster to simply hit ‘e’ on the keyboard to select that option and then ‘b’ to return to brush."

    Now the same line would have to read

    "You can actually flip the Wacom pen upside down to automatically choose the eraser, but I actually find it faster to simply hit ‘e’ on the keyboard to select that option and then press ‘b’ or 'q' or 's', depending on the layer I'm working on, to return to brush."

    Note that using a pen's eraser end automatically activates the previously active brush after erasing concluded. When only 'b' was needed to continue brushing, they keyboard shortcuts mimicked this economy. Now they no longer do. The tablet analogy would be that after using a single Eraser tip, one would have to flip/rotate the pen to one of three brushing tips.

    I submit that despite the very useful improvement 13.1.1 brought in terms of brush auto-selection, there is still a remaining usability issue with the new brush design because alternating between brushing and erasing now requires four keys instead of two:

    1. Due to the position of the keys, depending on which pair must be used for a given layer ('b' & 'e' or 'q' & 'e' or 's' & 'e') one has to adjust the position of one's left hand, just because one operates on a different layer type. This will typically require taking one's eye off the image to make sure the fingers land on the right keys.

    2. It becomes more difficult than necessary to build the respective muscle memory because different finger pairs are involved, depending on the button pair one must use. 

    3. While it is still possible to use only one hand (using the default keyboard shortcuts) without too much contortion, those four shortcuts are required to remain close to each other when the user redefines (some of) them, limiting choices for other tools.

    4. It is not possible to only dedicate two (or even one, see below) valuable controller button(s) to toggling between brushing and erasing. Four buttons have to be used (unless modifiers are involved which increase the likelihood of contortions and makes it harder to memorise the button assignments).

    5. It is not possible to use a single key (or controller button) in conjunction with a modifier key (say, 'b' and 'alt-b') to toggle between brushing and erasing.


    Here's Paul Steuneberg (the Image Alchemist) confirming that it is rather normal to frequently change between brushing and erasing:

    "When I create a Mask, I often switch between the Brush and Eraser before I am satisfied with the result. I almost always use the keyboard shortcuts for that, ‘b’ and ‘e’ respectively."

    Now that sentence would have to read:

    "When I create a Mask, I often switch between the Brush and Eraser before I am satisfied with the result. I almost always use the keyboard shortcuts for that, ‘b’, 'q', 's', and ‘e’ respectively, making sure that I keep track in my head what layer type I'm working on, matching 'b', 'q', 's' accordingly, in order to avoid Capture One changing the layer selection for me."

    I think it is important that one has the option of being able to choose two adjacent keys for brush/eraser toggling (or one key with or without modifier) so that one quickly toggle with no hand movements required and can do so uniformly on all layer types.

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  • BeO

    Fully agree, and I buy in your alternative 2. Again: 2.

    Alternative 2, for a very good reason: I most often have the hand tool, sometimes another tool, and not any brush, selected, when I browse through my layers. Then I suddenly decide to add something to an existing mask. Guess what, the easiest way to change to a (the respective) brush is hitting the b key on the keyboard. A universal shortcut for the respective brush is what's needed. 

    btw, regarding your last sentence, I have my (still universal) brush (as I am still on v13.0) on "b", and the eraser adjacent to it on "n".

    C1 could keep the new shortcuts (which we can delete in the keyboard shortcut preferences, I hope) and add a new universal shortcut to select the layer-type-dependent brush, which I would want to configure to "b".

    If the background layer is selected, b should of course activate the adjustment brush.

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  • BeO

    Does it make sense to rename the title to "universal keyboard shortcut to activate a brush"?

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  • Class A

    I 100% agree with what you wrote, BeO.

    Like you, I haven't updated on my editing machine either and will not update nor consider purchasing a new C1 release again unless the current usability issue is addressed. Having the improved healing abilities would be very welcome indeed, but overall efficiency of operation is significantly more important to me.

    I only download the latest C1 update on a test machine to see whether there have been improvements. The last change in 13.1.1 is extremely encouraging and I'm very grateful that our voices have been at least partially heard. At the same time I struggle to see only 50% of the issues being fixed.

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  • Class A

    P.S.: BeO, you wrote "Guess what, the easiest way to change to a (the respective) brush is hitting the b key on the keyboard. A universal shortcut for the respective brush is what's needed."

    EDIT: There is an acceptable workaround in Version 13.1.1:

    Simply pressing "B" before one selects the layer will engage the auto-brush selection (thus allowing "B" to almost play the role of the universal shortcut we want). It is not ideal when ordering of actions matters, even though it shouldn't, but I could live with that.

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  • Class A

    @BeO

    "Does it make sense to rename the title to "universal keyboard shortcut to activate a brush"?"

    I don't think I can rename the feature request.

    Perhaps you want to create your own request?
    In your request, you could omit my solution option #1 and only ask for #2.

    I'd love to be able to keep up to date with Capture One Pro, including being able to buy future releases and recommend it to others -- that's why I'd be grateful for even the lesser fix to the current issue -- but I'm 100% with you that solution option #2 I offered would be preferable.

    The temporary eraser brush should be considered on its own merit, of course. It would only help to have that additional option, wouldn't it?

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  • BeO

    Yes I think the temporary eraser brush is a separate request (and has its own value), but is only is a workaround for the new brush type overly compled keyboard shortcut support, but you say either option is a good, if somebody doens't dig into the long text in every detail.

    Your idea to "Simply pressing "B" before one selects the layer"

    is, for me, not really an workaround as it does not solve the issue when browsing through the layers and wanting to press B to get the correct brush, because you would need to select the background layer, press B and then re-select the desired layer.

    regards

     

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  • Lily

    Hi Class A,

    Thank you for your comments and suggestions.

    This is a valuable feedback for further improvement of Capture One.

    We take this request on board and add the comments to the previous requests (Universal Brush #40830 and Temporary Eraser Brush #39233).

     

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  • Class A

    Hi Lily,

    thank you very much. Much appreciated.

    The combination with the other requests makes a lot of sense, but I hope that this request will still be recognizable as a new one. It specifically references the progress that has been made in 13.1.1., i.e., references a different context than "Universal Brush" (#40830) did.

    If this request becomes an addendum to "Universal Brush" (#40830) it might not be considered if "Universal Brush" (#40830) is already regarded as "addressed" by the changes embodied in13.1.1. 

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  • Class A

    Has this request ever been given consideration, or has it been lost because it was merged with #40830?

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