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C1 8 Pro and Windows 10

Permanently deleted user
Hi,
this morning I got for the first time a message on the system tray about the forthcoming update to Window 10 which is offered for free to Win 8 users. Is there already information avaliable about C1 running under Win 10 when it is released by end of july (as announced)? Or is it recommended to still hold back for a while until eventual/possible quirks are ironed out?
I'm fine with Win 8 so from my part neither need or wish to upgrade, especially not close to lauch date and as "beta-plus-tester", so to say 😊
But it's interesting to see this form of promotion of an OS update from MS. Is there anything substancial to gain in comparison to Win 8?
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Comments

41 comments

Date Votes
  • Jim_DK
    The only official word is that it is not yet supported - and indeed there are some issues.

    If you need Capture One, then I suggest you stick with Win 8 until we have support out. If you absolutely insist on playing with 10 (and I understand that need), partition your drive and run two environments so you can still work.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    James:

    Thanks for the feedback which more or less confirms what I had already suspected. I never was an early adaptor of a OS upgrade and I certainly won't be in the case of Win 10. As mentioned it just was intriguing what strategy MS' marketing departament is going this time by promoting the upgrade - pretty agressively in my eyes. Tweaking and updating the OS takes already too much time in my understanding - time which could be used for more productive purposes. Am I right in suspecting that once C1 and Win 10 will work perfectly together we'll most likely see a corresponding notice and probably some type of an updated version?
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  • Dave R
    For what it's worth the Microsoft Win 10 compatability tool that's incorporated in the Get Windows 10 app that Microsoft have inserted on your toolbar does not indicate any problems with C1 8.3 Pro.
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  • marcoi
    I'm pretty sure that by July 29 (official release date for windows 10) the CO 8.X will be compatible 😉
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  • Glowtape
    I am using C1 on Windows 10 for a while now. It works fine currently, only drag-dropping items does not, which is an issue if you intend to organize things.
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  • zemickeyman
    I'm also testing C1 on windows 10.

    Like Glowtape, I've some drag and drop issues,
    and also some issue when rating images.
    Otherwise, C1 works nicely.

    Micka
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  • Glowtape
    I'm currently on build 10240, which is for all intents and purposes the RTM version, and drag'n'drop still doesn't work at all in C1. Microsoft will still be fixing things and issuing patches via Windows Update until general availability, but I don't expect C1 to magically work again. Other applications haven't lost their ability to drag'n'drop, so the ball is in C1's court.
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  • Jim_DK
    Hi chaps

    Microsoft recently released a security update called KB3072633.

    It breaks all drag & drop actions in Capture One (7.0.2 to 8.3.1) on Windows 8 & Windows 10.
    It means users can’t reorder images in the thumbnail browser or drag images to folders in the library tool etc.

    The only known workaround for older Capture One versions (7.0.2 to 8.3.1) is to uninstall KB3072633.

    A fix will be issued in the next release due very shortly.
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  • Glowtape
    Awesome!
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  • Rodast
    Win10 is out, runs C1 without problems on Win10 or should we wait?
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  • Jim_DK
    Until public we can not test a final build. A supported release will therefore be a few weeks after that.

    If possible, I suggest you wait.
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  • SFA
    I think would wait anyway before installing Win 10 or any early release.

    Maybe on a disposable installation on a test machine it would be ok but to dive into it in a production environment may not be entirely wise.

    Does it bring anything for you that you really desperately need for your life?

    If not it is best to wait.



    Grant
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  • Denis Mortell
    I think that Windows 8 users are entitled to a free upgrade to Windows 10, and I think it's valid for 12 months. So, I will wait until at least January 1 to install Win 10, unless there is a compelling reason to do otherwise.

    Why bother? C1/Win 8 are a match made in heaven! 😎
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  • SFA
    A little earlier I read a report about some challenges with the Win 10 automatic driver update feature related to drivers for NVidia products. As I read it the Auto update cannot be disabled - no idea if that is correct.

    Given that new drivers are not always beneficial at the point of release I would like to know a little more about that sort of thing and what options there are for controlling it before making a one way upgrade trip.

    Just one example of why I would not be rushing to move to Win 10 in the early days of the release.

    Apple update history suggests the same caution would be wise - I'm not trying to make unfavourable comparisons between vendors!



    Grant
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  • Permanently deleted user
    I'm on the west coast in California and I could verify an oddity with installing nVIDIA drivers, when I did the clean install of Windows 10 PRO. I was able to format my C-drive and reinstall Windows 10 PRO. All good. Typically, after the installation of a fresh OS and after rebooting, the first thing I install is the latest GPU drivers.

    When I did that, I think the newly released nVIDIA drivers caused some conflict with the Windows update (trying to download and install the nVIDIA drivers). My GTX 460 serves me well and I know it's a "dinosaur" compared to current models; however, I don't need the latest powerful features. Anytime you see a GREY SCREEN, be patient. I almost turned the power off via the button in the chassis, but then windows updated and restarted by itself.

    I can tell you that once the fresh install of Windows 10 PRO, I was able to reinstall C1PRO 8.3.2 without any problems. The only oddity was an incompatibility with MP 1.5, which I posted in the forum to warn others.
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  • don maclean
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    A little earlier I read a report about some challenges with the Win 10 automatic driver update feature related to drivers for NVidia products. As I read it the Auto update cannot be disabled - no idea if that is correct.
    Grant


    Note that the issue isn't with the NVidia Drivers but with the WDDM drivers from Windows and it has a nasty effect on dual GPU systems.

    For anyone who has issues with updates there is a utility available to hide/block Windows Updates or driver updates. You can download the utility from: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3073930
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  • SFA
    [quote="AiDon" wrote:
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    A little earlier I read a report about some challenges with the Win 10 automatic driver update feature related to drivers for NVidia products. As I read it the Auto update cannot be disabled - no idea if that is correct.
    Grant


    Note that the issue isn't with the NVidia Drivers but with the WDDM drivers from Windows and it has a nasty effect on dual GPU systems.

    For anyone who has issues with updates there is a utility available to hide/block Windows Updates or driver updates. You can download the utility from: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3073930


    The initial challenge, as reported, seemed to a conflict of versions because the Auto updated Win driver form MS was a later(?) release than the Auto update that NVidia wanted to install (as a downgrade or so I read) which left the two systems fighting each other.

    I would imagine that could be fixed pretty quickly (and auto updated!) but it does raise the issue about the potential for problematic driver updates and what to do until they are fixed. No doubt that will all be addressed quickly based on experiences.

    The Auto driver update, as I have seen reported, only applies to the Win 10 Home version(s) it seems. So the problem may not exist for those using Pro or higher versions of Windows.


    Grant
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  • don maclean
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    The initial challenge, as reported, seemed to a conflict of versions because the Auto updated Win driver form MS was a later(?) release than the Auto update that NVidia wanted to install (as a downgrade or so I read) which left the two systems fighting each other.
    Grant


    Hi Grant,

    I have been in the Insider program for a long .... long ... time and there is probably a little over zealous reporting about these issues, the same as reporting on the Apple OSX update.

    In my experience, because I used NVidia, it was simply an issue with the 353.30 driver conflicting with the 353.54 which then was upgraded to 353.62 version 2 days later because the 54 shouldn't have been released because of the kernel conflict with Femi hardware. The issue really came to light where Fermi with Kepler and/or Maxwell GPUs were mixed.

    The 353.62 version comes with the 10 installation and works fine ... except on dual GPU systems 😄 but no problems I have a solution if anyone needs it.

    Don.
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  • SFA
    [quote="AiDon" wrote:
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    The initial challenge, as reported, seemed to a conflict of versions because the Auto updated Win driver form MS was a later(?) release than the Auto update that NVidia wanted to install (as a downgrade or so I read) which left the two systems fighting each other.
    Grant


    Hi Grant,

    I have been in the Insider program for a long .... long ... time and there is probably a little over zealous reporting about these issues, the same as reporting on the Apple OSX update.

    In my experience, because I used NVidia, it was simply an issue with the 353.30 driver conflicting with the 353.54 which then was upgraded to 353.62 version 2 days later because the 54 shouldn't have been released because of the kernel conflict with Femi hardware. The issue really came to light where Fermi with Kepler and/or Maxwell GPUs were mixed.

    The 353.62 version comes with the 10 installation and works fine ... except on dual GPU systems 😄 but no problems I have a solution if anyone needs it.

    Don.


    Hi Don,

    I expect these things will surely be resolved quickly but I think anyone feeling especially reliant on what they have, whether Pro or Enthusiast, might do well to wait a while - as usual.

    Whether "a while" turns out to be a few day, a few weeks or a few months is another matter. I would guess a few weeks of caution would be wise unless people have a pressing need to update as part of a machine rebuild perhaps, or for the resolution of some other issue.

    There is a tendency within our world to rush for something new when there is no obvious need to do so at the time.

    BTW - does "dual GPU" mean dual cards or does it include a single GPU plus whatever comes with the system on the chip/motherboard?

    I assume the former. If not then there is potential for serious disruption!

    Also am I right in thinking that Win 10 Pro does not have the Auto update "enforced" as the Home version is reputed to have?


    Grant
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  • Richard Allen
    Just upgraded from windows 7 to Windows 10 and so far Capture One seems to be working just fine except for one small problem which I'm not sure how to solve, maybe you do?

    The menu items on the left of the screen ar larger than they used to be and where all items used to fit height-wise they now don't.

    Maybe it's something to do with the graphics driver?

    Thanks
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  • don maclean
    [quote="SFA" wrote:

    BTW - does "dual GPU" mean dual cards or does it include a single GPU plus whatever comes with the system on the chip/motherboard?

    I assume the former. If not then there is potential for serious disruption!

    Also am I right in thinking that Win 10 Pro does not have the Auto update "enforced" as the Home version is reputed to have?

    Grant


    Hi Grant,

    Basically it means Integrated Graphics + High Performance GPU such as AMD/NVidia and the issue with the WDDM driver is caused because at the moment only one version, 1.3 or 2.0, can be loaded and that depends on the first GPU in the list. But you can force that by disabling the one that is first and getting the second in the list to load first.

    The issue will also occur with any dual GPU's if they have incompatible architectures depending on different WDDM drivers.

    In Windows 10 the AutoUpdate is enabled across all versions for security updates, in Pro you can 'delay' driver updates but there is no specified length of time as it becomes up to Microsoft. The link I gave earlier is a utility to actually disable an update.

    And NVidia has gone back to providing the updates themselves as from the release of 353.62

    I guess the issues with GPU's was no different to PC manufacturers specific GPU's.

    Don.
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  • WPNL
    @AiDon
    Can this be related to the "resolution" scaling, is this different than before maybe?
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  • don maclean
    [quote="WPNL" wrote:
    @AiDon
    Can this be related to the "resolution" scaling, is this different than before maybe?


    Hi @WNPL,

    No it is a known issue ... a description by NVidia:

    "Windows Display Driver Model (WDDM) version 2.0 is available starting with Windows 10. In NVidia Release 252, systems with any combination of Kepler and Maxwell GPUs use WDDM 2.0, while systems with only Fermi GPUs use WDDM 1.3. In systems that mix Fermi with Kepler and/or Maxwell GPUs, the WDDM version used is determined by the GPU that POSTs first: WDDM 1.3 for Fermi, WDDM 2.0 otherwise. GPUs that POST after the first GPU and that are not compatible with its WDDM version will fail to load and show a yellow bang in Device Manager. In a future driver release, systems that include Fermi GPUs will use WDDM 2.0 instead of WDDM 1.3."
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  • WPNL
    I apologize, my remark was meant for Richard :-/
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  • Denis Williams
    Installed Windows 10 on July 29th. In the form of an upgrade from Win 7.

    All software came forward in the update with no significant issues.

    Capture One 8 seems fine, import, develop, local adjustments and export functions working as normal it seems.

    Regards
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  • Permanently deleted user
    DSWilly:

    Not trying to start an argument here but that's exactly my point: "everything is working fine". If Win10 is an update I'm expecting some real benefit - in features, in performance, in optimized use of hardware ressources etc.

    Like we all are expecting when P1 launches an updated version of C1. At the moment I'm failing to see what W10 does what W8.1 doesn't. Compareable performance just doesn't justify for me spending the time to update (and to solve possible hazzle). Will the support for W8 come to an end in a near future. Then it may be the time to do the upgrade. But until then I'm expecting all quirks been ironed out - and even more, perhaps W11 already on its course. 😊

    In German there's a nice word "verschlimmbessern" which means more or less worsening thing by improvement (attempts).
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  • Richard Steel
    Hi

    I have installed Win 10.

    I found that I needed to re-register my Capture 8.3. All was working fine until yesterday and now it is not happy closing down the software and seems to get stuck with a box that shows 'saving'. Only way to close it down is to go into task manager.

    Thanks

    Rich
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  • SFA
    [quote="Richard312" wrote:
    Hi

    I have installed Win 10.

    I found that I needed to re-register my Capture 8.3. All was working fine until yesterday and now it is not happy closing down the software and seems to get stuck with a box that shows 'saving'. Only way to close it down is to go into task manager.

    Thanks

    Rich


    Richard,

    I would guess that there is a "pop up" window somewhere that is not "popping up" on the screen - either it's hidden below everything else (or off the current screen) or is too small to be seen for some reason OR is not popping up at all.

    If I am right it is probably trying to ask you a question about something. That might or might not be directly related to the saving box. The trouble is that without knowing what the process is (identifiable from the task manager?) it's not going to be easy to ascertain what approach might be used to get past the problem.

    Are you by any chance writing things to an external drive?


    Grant
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  • Richard Steel
    Hi Grant

    I have been playing over the weekend and these are my observations having updated to Capture 8.3.2. My usual approach is to save raw files into a folder on an external drive which I access through the library.

    1) Opening software. A small dialogue box saying 'Loading document' appears briefly while software opens. Opening seems slightly slower than with Windows 7 Pro.
    2) When the software opens it always opens on the same directory on my external hard drive (some fox photos), regardless of what I have been working on previously.
    3) The 'saving' issue seems to be intermittent and mainly related to accessing some new raw files. For example this evening I put some new raw files in a directory on the hard drive. Did a bit of work on them in C8 and then when I went to close down the 'saving' dialogue comes up, and the software becomes unresponsive. In the end I got bored waiting and closed it down with Task manager. interestingly if I close the software in task manager when I then reopen it will then close down straight away with no issues.

    Cheers

    Rich
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  • SFA
    Hi Richard,

    I can't comment on point 1 - it's not something I have seen using Win 7 and I presume that's the same for you which is why it seems unusual.

    For point 2

    That suggests that C1 has not shut down in a "clean" way and completed the update of the "last used" location or last open file. So you will always get what it does have in the "Last ...... " whatever entry. That said if you run more than one open Session at the same time (not sure if you can do that with Catalogues) I would imagine the order in which they close down may influence what reference is stored.

    In the worst case if there is nothing to use C1 will open a "Recently used" window for the last 10 opened Sessions or Catalogues and start over from there. I saw this for the first time in ages today after a problem with Windows Explorer which hung ( something that seems to be a Windows 7 problem that I have yet to resolve that started a few weeks ago) when I had instigated an enquiry through a C1 Window. That caused C1 to become unresponsive too and eventually too many keystrokes trying to get something to happen crashed both. Of course C1 did not close at all cleanly at that time but reopened with no problems other than not suggesting a starting point.

    However there may be some other explanation


    For point 3.

    I have a pair of external USB3 drives that often seem to have similar responses - or lack of response in this case. It's as if the connection goes into a hibernation mode and frequently does not return when asked to respond and wake up again.

    At one time it was especially bad for USB3 connection but worked fine via a USB2 socket on the PC. However that was largely resolved by using a different (and slightly shorter) USB 3 cable.

    There are still times when the external drive seems to go off and do something else for a while - even in the middle of a transfer. All I have seem on the system logs seems to suggest "system activity" which is not a lot of help! However in my case the delay is not usually long enough for me to be be reaching for the kill switch!

    If you are amenable to reading log files C1 writes some and of course the System Event logs and so on may shed some light on what has been happening - I assume that sort of diagnostic facility has been carried forward into Win 10?

    If it persists after the the Official Win 10 release for C1 it may be a good move to create a support case so that the technical team can take a look at it but there are so many variables in the mix these days that is could simply be a configuration anomaly that does not report clear evidence to work with.

    My suspicion on my machine is that it might be something to do with system indexing but that would imply that indexing is choosing some strange moments to insist on doing its work!



    Grant
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