Capture One performance compared to Lightroom CC 2015
Has anyone else played with the new Lightroom CC 2015? The first thing I noticed was that it was like getting a brand new computer! They should call it Lightning CC 2015 😄 The performance while making adjustments (on a native 4K display) is stunning. It's so smooth and responsive. It really makes C1 seem like a dog in comparison. Very tempting to switch just for the performance.
Phase One: you really need to look at optimizing performance... whatever you are doing is clearly not best-practices! Apple Aperture and Photos is also lightning quick compared to C1. In fact, of all the RAW editing apps I've looked at, C1 is among the worst in performance.
ps. I use a 2013 Mac Pro, 6-Core, 32GB, D500s, with catalog on the internal 1TB SSD.
Phase One: you really need to look at optimizing performance... whatever you are doing is clearly not best-practices! Apple Aperture and Photos is also lightning quick compared to C1. In fact, of all the RAW editing apps I've looked at, C1 is among the worst in performance.
ps. I use a 2013 Mac Pro, 6-Core, 32GB, D500s, with catalog on the internal 1TB SSD.
0
-
It's funny.
Only last year I seem to recall some people saying the opposite when LR V5 was the option.
Things change.
I recall some years ago doing a comparison of LR 1 against another RAW converter and LR1 looked much faster for on-screen response.
However, if you looked carefully the instant response was not the complete process and for most images there were 2 or 3 further change steps before the final result was delivered.
The other application did everything and then presented the result. Looked very much slower but, in everything I tried, it was on a par or even sometimes a little quicker.
Perhaps LR is taking advantage of new technology in Apples. Does the performance gain look similar using PCs?0 -
I am not going to question what is faster, there are just to many variables pending the operating system and the platform you are running on. For instance did you use Open Cl in the C1 preference settings and if so, was your graphics card supporting it ?
You mention 4K, is that video editing ? Because that is a video term . Neither RAW processing program is geared for that purpose , those are processing engines for still images. Don't expect pigs to fly....
I have used both, and always liked LR because of its library (catalogue) features , something that C1 never had in the past or not as good as LR. But now with C1 8.3 its all there. I have moved away from LR..... Why ?
For many reasons : C1 excels by far in RAW editing over LR.... for instance adjustment layers ... beter noise suppression ....etc Note that I shoot with IQ backs and not a DSLR....
Along the same lines, LR has become a popular tool , a books module , web pages etc..... but which serious pro photographer would do that in LR (a Raw processing engine) ? That shows how LR moves slowly to the popular market area of hobby photography. Nothing wrong with that....but just don't compare things.
So there is a market for both, and as to the processing speed.... well that is a whole other ball game... look at the quality and features , workflows and the end result. Again C1 excels...
I have to give you this, 3 party plug-ins are great on LR. Sadly enough they do not exist for C1 unless you get in and out the program.....
Just my two cents......
Kind regards Steve0 -
[quote="flashsplash" wrote:
I am not going to question what is faster, there are just to many variables pending the operating system and the platform you are running on. For instance did you use Open Cl in the C1 preference settings and if so, was your graphics card supporting it ?
You mention 4K, is that video editing ? Because that is a video term . Neither RAW processing program is geared for that purpose , those are processing engines for still images. Don't expect pigs to fly....
I have used both, and always liked LR because of its library (catalogue) features , something that C1 never had in the past or not as good as LR. But now with C1 8.3 its all there. I have moved away from LR..... Why ?
For many reasons : C1 excels by far in RAW editing over LR.... for instance adjustment layers ... beter noise suppression ....etc Note that I shoot with IQ backs and not a DSLR....
Along the same lines, LR has become a popular tool , a books module , web pages etc..... but which serious pro photographer would do that in LR (a Raw processing engine) ? That shows how LR moves slowly to the popular market area of hobby photography. Nothing wrong with that....but just don't compare things.
So there is a market for both, and as to the processing speed.... well that is a whole other ball game... look at the quality and features , workflows and the end result. Again C1 excels...
I have to give you this, 3 party plug-ins are great on LR. Sadly enough they do not exist for C1 unless you get in and out the program.....
Just my two cents......
Kind regards Steve
Look, I'm just saying that people here (and Phase One in particular) need to take a look around... every once in awhile, it's good to pull your head out of the sand and have a look at what the competition is doing and ask, could this be better?
No one is questioning where C1 excels. However, good quality image processing is no excuse for poor performance. If other app developers can make RAW photo editing apps that fly, then so should Phase One. There's no need to make a compromise or trade off... one should be able to have good image quality AND performance.
If I was on the Adobe forums, I'd be applauding their performance and telling them to get their heads out of their arse and look at C1's image quality. But I'm not over there... I'm here.
I really like C1 for a lot of reasons, but it's performance leaves a LOT to be desired.
ps. when I mention 4K, I'm referring to my 4K UHD display (3840x2160). I'm not working with video. I'm working with C1 on a 4K display, which is a lot of pixels to push around, but with iMac's and Dell displays now coming in 5K resolutions, it's no longer bleeding edge. Oh, and of course I'm using OpenCL with my Mac Pro, but I've yet to see that make any difference between running with that enabled or disabled. I'd like to see an A/B video demonstration of what difference OpenCL makes. It seems like a placebo to me.0 -
I actively use both Lr CC and Capture One 8.x.
(Grant, I'm talking about Windows here - I don't think this is an OS-specific topic).
On my machine they both fly. There's no appreciable performance difference between them.
As you (the OP) would realise from spending some time on Adobe's Lr forum (where I'm also an active contributor) many users are having major performance issues with Lr 6/CC.
Conclusion: your personal experiences probably have little relevance to the Bigger Picture, and this:Phase One: you really need to look at optimizing performance...
definitely has no relevance to my experience of the two programs, where Capture One lacks for absolutely nothing in performance terms, in comparison to Lr.
You want to talk about the need to optimise performance? Try DxO Optics Pro.0 -
I cant say that my LR6.1 is faster than COP8.3 on Mac Pro 8 core machine with 20GB RAM and SSD.
Also I cant say that every millisecond saved or difference is worthwhile.
The operator is the slowest part of the process usually not the software.
When COP8 has a Channel Mixer function like Photoshop I will be a very happy bunny as then I dont have to go out to Photoshop CS6 for my IR editing.
Yes I have put in several enhancement requests to PhaseOne support 😉0 -
[quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:
I actively use both Lr CC and Capture One 8.x.
(Grant, I'm talking about Windows here - I don't think this is an OS-specific topic).
On my machine they both fly. There's no appreciable performance difference between them.
As you (the OP) would realise from spending some time on Adobe's Lr forum (where I'm also an active contributor) many users are having major performance issues with Lr 6/CC.
Conclusion: your personal experiences probably have little relevance to the Bigger Picture, and this:Phase One: you really need to look at optimizing performance...
definitely has no relevance to my experience of the two programs, where Capture One lacks for absolutely nothing in performance terms, in comparison to Lr.
You want to talk about the need to optimise performance? Try DxO Optics Pro.
We're all talking about personal experiences here, which is why I started this thread with a call for others to share theirs. 😕
It's funny, I don't know why some folks here are so defensive. It's like I'm calling your baby ugly or something.
Anyway, I'm glad to hear you're not noticing any performance differences. In fact, I don't notice any performance differences on my 13" MacBook Pro either.
Yet, there IS a noticeable difference on my 6-core Mac Pro where it feels like a boat anchor is attached to each slider. While my Mac Pro has several times the computing capacity of my MacBook, it's also driving a pair of 4K displays. I believe that C1 clearly has some kind of bottleneck with refreshing images on large 4K/5K screens. Adobe and Apple have figured this out - both work beautifully on my Mac Pro. I believe Phase One can do better.0 -
if we are talking about Performance !
i can only say that Acedsee , Photo Direct, Affinity Photo , and the Big runner "Apple Fotos are the fast ones on the Web.
none of them that i use, NO Adobe Lightroom because of the radical Adobe I cloud function , i tested the Demo Version only for Lightroom 6 and saw how many wastey Data are bombing may Imac from the cloud .
i sended to ----> Trash0 -
Speed is one thing when working in a software. IQ is quite another. Capture One gives me great control and when it comes time to process images it's performance is quite speedy.
I dumped lightroom in favour of Capture One...as I like the control over saving a few seconds.0 -
[quote="VirtualRain" wrote:
We're all talking about personal experiences here.
None of these::It really makes C1 seem like a dog in comparison.
Phase One: you really need to look at optimizing performance... whatever you are doing is clearly not best-practices!
However, good quality image processing is no excuse for poor performance.
I really like C1 for a lot of reasons, but it's performance leaves a LOT to be desired.
were couched as "opinions", but as statements of absolute fact.
Sorry, but I don't care for sweeping generalisations, or for personal opinions being presented as incontrovertible truths.0 -
I agree C1 is some times very slow
and Lightroom is much faster and it has a Better DAM
but it all depends on what i use it for
but since i have adobted the idea that i do as much as i can with when i do the shot so i dont have to wast time in front of the computer so much
so i dont do color corection or
And the Bugs in the smart filter with GEO tagging has yet to be fixed and keywording is a pain will i most likely leave C1
yes the Raw converter some the raw convert is good, but sorry i the Big thing with my D3 when i compare them
with NX,Apertue or lightroom they all look the same to me0 -
When describing Your performance-issue, please be sure to be very precise indeed! Please provide a thorough description of what You are doing when you find it slow, and what specifically is slow.
We are listening, but simple stating "it's too slow", won't help us improve CO.0 -
Christian
i have a catalog with around 24000 shotes
and when i click to view them by clicking all images it takes 30 seconds or more while i have the spinning mac ball
and if there is some images that where the XMP has been updated ike geo tagging the then it slows all the way down
and there is no major adjustments as such on any of the photos
but with Lr or even old Aperture when i click on the same function to see all images BAM it is there and i can scroll down
so why does C1 take so long when other apps just flyes
99% of the photos are Nef (raw files )
that is a performance issue0 -
I found that CaptureOne works faster if you set "AutoSyncSidecarXMP" to none.
I have not yet found a clear description of what this setting does.0 -
Eric
as far that i can tell then the there is no sync with the xmp files
Hernik0 -
[quote="Lorenzen" wrote:
Eric
as far that i can tell then the there is no sync with the xmp files
Hernik
Thanks Henrik, I got that far as well. I should have stated my real questions more clearly - what is the effect on operations of not syncing with the XMP Side car files?
Suppose I have imported a large number of photos and that COP8 has created XMP files for each image, I have started by syncing all the XMP files, and now I turn syncing off.
Now I do some image edits, and I add some keywords and I change some metadata - but I do not sync the XMP files.
What happens now in the following circumstances, as a result of Metadata not up to date:
-When I export the images - does the Metadata and adjustments of the exported image come from the XMP files or from Metadata stored in the Catalog from which it is imported?
-When I import the catalog into another catalog - does the Metadata and adjustment imported into the catalog come from the XMP files or from Metadata stored in the Catalog which is imported?
-Are there other circumstances not related to Media Pro where the contents of the XMP files becomes important?
The first two questions I can probably determine by experiment, but the third not.
In both cases it seems to me that the source of Metadata and adjustments is likely from the source catalog, not from the XMP files.
But then, why does COP use XMP files at all? If they are just for sharing with Media Pro, then for those of us who don't use Media Pro, is there a way to stop COP from using and creating XMP files altogether?0 -
Hey Eric
well what i have discovred with the XMP files is with no syn
Since me GPS for my camera gave up it is life i had to manual tag my photos a painfull job
and if i did use no sync then of course nothing was there
and also if you have no sync and you export a photo then the last update will be moved with
i would say as long as you dont use other apps to temper with XMP files then no problem.
i am waiting for GPS comes back then i can with it off again and get some speed
Henrik0 -
I've actually gone back to using Lightroom as the performance of C1P8 is so slugguish on my iMac. Rendering of changes when moving sliders takes a few seconds. My iMac is an early 2009 model and it would seem that version 8 of C1 struggles. I recognise my iMac is somewhat vintage in modern terms and C1 has always seemed far more demanding on hardware than Lr. C1P7 was far speedier for me in terms of moving sliders. 0 -
Phase One !
i am very sad to inform you that C1 8.3 works really slowly under OSX 10.10.4 .
i have really no idea way other third party Application working faster on may MAC , some time their is some strange behavior in C1 when using the croup and Brush function .
bather way i Changed my Workflow in C1 , now i am using the C1 Catalog and saving the RAW Daten out side the Catalog on the same Place on HD ( not external Drive ) ..
my Hardware :
IMAC 27 " 2011
12 Gb RAM
1500 GB FusionDrive0 -
[quote="CAPTURE NIKON D700" wrote:
Phase One !
i am very sad to inform you that C1 8.3 works really slowly under OSX 10.10.4 .
i have really no idea way other third party Application working faster on may MAC , some time their is some strange behavior in C1 when using the croup and Brush function .
bather way i Changed my Workflow in C1 , now i am using the C1 Catalog and saving the RAW Daten out side the Catalog on the same Place on HD ( not external Drive ) ..
my Hardware :
IMAC 27 " 2011
12 Gb RAM
1500 GB FusionDrive
Thank you for the feedback!
Please contact our support and have them take a look.0 -
Phase One !
i am very sad to inform you that C1 8.3 works really slowly under OSX 10.10.4 .
i have really no idea way other third party Application working faster on may MAC , some time their is some strange behavior in C1 when using the croup and Brush function .
bather way i Changed my Workflow in C1 , now i am using the C1 Catalog and saving the RAW Daten out side the Catalog on the same Place on HD ( not external Drive ) ..
One Thing i found wich makes the Performance goes down is the slide bare at the top right " Zoom"
when you makes changes there ! C1 will started at the background to Build the Thumbnail Images new agin and this makes C1 hooked when you have a Big Catalog 💡0 -
[quote="Eric Nepean" wrote:
Seems the news about CaptureOne slow performance with large catalogs is no longer just inside this community. Check this link for an interesting technical comment - see the last two postings in the chain.
Capture One 8: 20 tables, 19 indexes
Lightroom 5: 96 tables, 221 indexes
Photo Supreme 2: 47 tables, 158 indexes
I think this is one area where C1 could get some solid performance gains with a better-tuned database setup.0 -
[quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
When describing Your performance-issue, please be sure to be very precise indeed! Please provide a thorough description of what You are doing when you find it slow, and what specifically is slow.
We are listening, but simple stating "it's too slow", won't help us improve CO.
I would suggest testing the responsiveness of making adjustments on images on 4K screens using both Capture One Pro and Adobe Lightroom CC 2015 on a 2013 Mac Pro with RAW images (in my case a 5D3) and note the difference in responsiveness. It would appear that Adobe (and Apple with Aperture/Photos) are doing something different to refresh their preview images when adjustments are made that makes them much more responsive. It's really worth investigating because it might be something fairly simple that they are doing that could yield significant performance gains for us using C1P.0 -
This is an issue that I have asked several times before and not recently but it seems that nothing has changed. I love C1, but rarely use it. I want to use it more but this issue keeps getting in the way. It is all about how C1 utilizes my computers memory and the length of time it takes to import files. Here is an example (2013 Mac Pro, 64gig main memory, 10.10.4, 6-3.5ghz processors; C1, auto GL, image seize 1280). Right now the system has 9.35 gb dedicated and 20.25 gb in cache. with C1 just opened. C1 determined that it is going to take 2 hours to import 5907 images into a catalogue. The program absorbs ALL of the Cache memory and brings C1 to almost virtual standstill after importing about 950 images.......
I never have an issue like this with LR and it virtually never takes longer, say than 30 minutes. I can add as many images as I want, sync large folders and it never freezes up like this nor does it absorb all of the systems memory into a cache. I have asked repeatedly why C1 must us and/or absorb so much of cache memory with real no positive answer.
What am I missing in my C1 setup?
Earl0 -
I confirm that C1 8.3 works really slowly under OSX 10.10.4 .
I have a catalog with 5-6000 photos and now is really slowly....Now, every time you apply a change I have to wait for a delay of 1 seconds to see it applied.
This defect can be seen in some video tutorial that you have published officially online.
I think that As the catalog expands it becomes slower.Instead the rendering with Lightroom is instantaneous (same photos in catalog).
I like C1. I'm using C1 from the version 3 or 4..... but I am a professional photographer and I get nervous working this way.
It seems that it is forced to take a more powerful computer every time you make an update ... 😄
I can not believe that none of you, inside PhaseOne, see this.... 😕 😕 😕 😕0 -
I have no issues with performance but only have Aperture to compare with. In my view, stability is more of an issue than speed (but we may have different workflow demands) and I would happily sacrifice quite so many feature updates for a stable, reliable platform. 0 -
I may have found a bug... Looking at Activity Monitor, it appears that C1P is using 125% CPU continuously... when I'm doing absolutely nothing! If I just let the app sit with the window open, it will consume 125% CPU endlessly.
Is anyone else seeing this? I'm using 8.3.1 on 10.10.4.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3777/19315051390_09588b5818_z.jpgC1P CPU Usage by VirtualRain (Junk Photos), on Flickr0 -
[quote="VirtualRain" wrote:
I may have found a bug... Looking at Activity Monitor, it appears that C1P is using 125% CPU continuously... when I'm doing absolutely nothing! If I just let the app sit with the window open, it will consume 125% CPU endlessly.
Is anyone else seeing this? I'm using 8.3.1 on 10.10.4.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3777/19315051390_09588b5818_z.jpgC1P CPU Usage by VirtualRain (Junk Photos), on Flickr
Is that since the last reboot?
So you have a fraction under 15 mins of CPU time used. But in what period?
Windows server has used nearly twice as much.
Kernel tasks 7 times as much CPU.
According to the Apple blurb, if I read it right, kernel activity will slow processes as it tries to keep the Mac cooler. Taking that at face value would seem to suggest that the Mac is overheating for some reason.
The overall CPU usage on the graph does not seem that high so one wonders what is going on. Is the fan (Fans?) running flat out continuously?
Grant0 -
[quote="SFA" wrote:
[quote="VirtualRain" wrote:
I may have found a bug... Looking at Activity Monitor, it appears that C1P is using 125% CPU continuously... when I'm doing absolutely nothing! If I just let the app sit with the window open, it will consume 125% CPU endlessly.
Is anyone else seeing this? I'm using 8.3.1 on 10.10.4.
https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3777/19315051390_09588b5818_z.jpgC1P CPU Usage by VirtualRain (Junk Photos), on Flickr
Is that since the last reboot?
So you have a fraction under 15 mins of CPU time used. But in what period?
Windows server has used nearly twice as much.
Kernel tasks 7 times as much CPU.
According to the Apple blurb, if I read it right, kernel activity will slow processes as it tries to keep the Mac cooler. Taking that at face value would seem to suggest that the Mac is overheating for some reason.
The overall CPU usage on the graph does not seem that high so one wonders what is going on. Is the fan (Fans?) running flat out continuously?
Grant
The key metric to look at (especially when idle) is the %CPU (not the CPU time). There's nothing wrong with the Mac, the cooling, etc. The computer had been running for awhile before I started Capture One, and then I just let it sit for 5 min. with Activity Monitor running to see what was going on. Thus, the screen shot was taken about 5min after starting C1 and an unknown amount of time since starting the computer.
It turns out I can get it to behave properly by restarting C1. Sometimes it comes back in this mode (using 100-125% CPU while idle) and sometimes it's fine (only using a fraction of 1% when idle). The interesting thing is that when it's running in this state where it's consuming an unusually high amount of CPU at idle, C1 is extremely sluggish to user input. Much more so, than the CPU utilization would indicate. There's some strangeness going on for sure.
I've entered a ticket with support. I'm still interested in hearing if anyone else has this issue.0 -
Out of curiosity I tried a quick Google and up popped a load of references to exactly this sort of problem relating to a number of applications.
Not being a Mac user it all looks a bit messy to me. Most people seem to have first seen the problems after an OS upgrade but the solutions reported seem to centre on the plist for which ever application is showing the extremely high %.
Most users were also reporting high temperatures - but not all of them.
Nominally some sort of problem with the plist seems to have the system continuously attempting to set preferences (or so some problem interpretations reported) which caused issues for those users.
I don't see these issues on a PC, at least none where C1 is involved.
HTH.
Grant0
Post is closed for comments.
Comments
35 comments