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Photos app as catalog for Capture One

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18 comments

  • Christian Gruner
    Yep, No problem, just use Sessions when you start up the first time.
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  • NNN636461007451133516
    I tried. It works only sometimes. And the RAW file is not sent to C1, only the jpeg version. Really frustrating, but I guess it's a limitation of Photos.
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  • David Dack
    I too like the organising functions of Apple’s Photos and, obviously for this forum, I like the Raw conversion and adjustments of C1.
    Conversely I am not so happy with the catalog functions of C1, and adjustments in Photos, while getting better all the time, are nowhere near the sophistication of C1.

    Here is how I get what is (for me) the best of both worlds.

    All my RAW photos are imported into C1 sessions. One session per year with 12 sub folders, one for each month.
    As part of the import process the image names are given a date prefix and are stored in a year/month folder structure.
    This way if all my photographic software fails I will still have my original files which can easily be searched by date.

    After culling and editing within a session I export the results as jpegs and import into Photos.
    In Photos I can do all the organising I need, using albums, smart albums, keywords etc and search by location, date, names etc.
    The photos are synced across my desktop, iPad, and phone using iCloud.
    Most of the time I view my images on the iPad and when I get around to it I will probably use Apple TV to see them on a large screen. In order to print I just need to know the date the image was taken which is easy using any of the searches possible in Photos. This tells me the correct session and month where the image lives and I can then print using C1.
    If I want to do some more work on an image I can export the new version to Photos and it will pop up alongside the version already there and I can keep them both or delete the first one.

    For me the choice of organiser is a big deal because that is how I access all my photos. I want an organiser that will last longer than I will as it is today’s equivalent of a family photo album to be handed on to my children. The demise of Aperture has made me very wary of what software I trust in future but I am gambling on Photos being around for a while since it is consumer friendly and Apple makes more money from consumers than from professionals.

    I hope that this will be of some use and would be very interested to learn what software others are entrusting with their precious images
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  • VAD.
    [quote="Dave-D" wrote:

    All my RAW photos are imported into C1 sessions. st one.



    I do not import my pictures in sessions or in catalogue, I work directly from folders.
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  • Dave R
    [quote="NNN636461007451133516" wrote:
    I tried. It works only sometimes. And the RAW file is not sent to C1, only the jpeg version. Really frustrating, but I guess it's a limitation of Photos.

    Ignore session folders, session albums and session favourites entirely and just navigate to the picture you want to edit in the system folders pane. (Capture One will leave a small file in the folder containing the picture/pictures you edit containing the edit data).
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  • David Dack
    I never thought of navigating directly to the systems folder. That will work fine. Thanks.
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  • SFA
    If you make the folder a favourite in C1 it will make things easier to find for repeated visits until you are finished with it.

    HTH.


    Grant
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  • syncrasy
    [quote="David532" wrote:

    Ignore session folders, session albums and session favourites entirely and just navigate to the picture you want to edit in the system folders pane. (Capture One will leave a small file in the folder containing the picture/pictures you edit containing the edit data).


    Not to hijack this thread, but I'm very puzzled by this conversation. I asked a similar question to PO tech support regarding using C1 without sessions for editing images archived in my Media Pro catalog. PO's response was, "It's not possible, as Capture One requires some sort of document to open (either a session or catalog database) to view files. However, a session's folder structure is fairly lightweight and once you have a simple session set up you will be able to open any and all files with that single session without needing to copy the files over again."

    And other users on these forums have also said that the only way to use Media Pro with C1 is with sessions. Am I misunderstanding something?
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  • SFA
    [quote="syncrasy" wrote:
    [quote="David532" wrote:

    Ignore session folders, session albums and session favourites entirely and just navigate to the picture you want to edit in the system folders pane. (Capture One will leave a small file in the folder containing the picture/pictures you edit containing the edit data).


    Not to hijack this thread, but I'm very puzzled by this conversation. I asked a similar question to PO tech support regarding using C1 without sessions for editing images archived in my Media Pro catalog. PO's response was, "It's not possible, as Capture One requires some sort of document to open (either a session or catalog database) to view files. However, a session's folder structure is fairly lightweight and once you have a simple session set up you will be able to open any and all files with that single session without needing to copy the files over again."

    And other users on these forums have also said that the only way to use Media Pro with C1 is with sessions. Am I misunderstanding something?


    If you are not using a catalogue you will be using a session by default.

    However you can ignore most of the benefits of the session concept if you wish so that you can access the files you wish to edit anywhere that they are accessible without making any connected (for the future) reference to them at all - if that's what you wish to do.

    Which is pretty much what I did for the first year or so of using C1 compared with the application I was also using at that time. Compared because the aother application worked in pretty much the same way so they could easily sit side by side.

    Then one day I decided to take a serious look at what a session concept offered and realised how much benefit I had spent a lot of time avoiding. I had been very dumb.

    Efficiency, for me, improved a lot once I discovered how sessions could work with me rather than me working against them.

    But to answer your question - no you cannot use C1 without using a catalog or a session but using a session can, should you so wish, be almost 100% transparent if that is what you would prefer.

    HTH.


    Grant
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  • syncrasy
    [quote="SFA" wrote:

    Then one day I decided to take a serious look at what a session concept offered and realised how much benefit I had spent a lot of time avoiding. I had been very dumb.

    Efficiency, for me, improved a lot once I discovered how sessions could work with me rather than me working against them.


    I have trouble understanding the "benefits" of Sessions because Session discussions are on these forums typically are very generalized with no reference to the photographer's type of photography or workflow. PO help pages say, "Use the Sessions function to organize all your work and any client project. Sessions enables you to store all files as a complete project that includes RAW files, setting files, library files, output files and paths to drives used in a project. ... Sessions is especially useful when you are shooting tethered."

    I don't have clients, I don't use projects, and I don't shoot tethered. I maintain a database of personal photos and manage them with Media Pro's vast DAM features. I ingest, annotate, edit RAWs (not with C1), generate derivatives, archive, and make new Web galleries as needed. All images are referenced from the Media Pro catalog, so why would I need yet another system of referencing?

    My impression has always been that PO added Sessions to C1 specifically for commercial, studio, or event photographers who didn't already have a DAM. But for veteran DAM users who don't shoot tethered projects, Sessions offer nothing. If this impression is incorrect, why?

    [quote="SFA" wrote:

    But to answer your question - no you cannot use C1 without using a catalog or a session but using a session can, should you so wish, be almost 100% transparent if that is what you would prefer.


    So is David532's answer incorrect, or is he basically saying what you're saying? (e.g., Does "ignore" sessions = they exist but you can ignore them?)
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  • Ian Wilson
    [quote="syncrasy" wrote:


    So is David532's answer incorrect, or is he basically saying what you're saying? (e.g., Does "ignore" sessions = they exist but you can ignore them?)

    If you "ignore" sessions and catalogs, you are basically just running everything in one session. You can do that if you like. Sessions are not just for tethering - I have been using them since version 4, and have never yet got into catalogs instead. If you have a long-standing collection of existing images, you most probably don't want to mess with the arrangement of folders and organisation that you already have. But for new stuff, you might think if giving C1s method of organisation a try.

    Ian
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  • VAD.
    [quote="Ian3" wrote:


    If you "ignore" sessions and catalogs, you are basically just running everything in one session.



    Yes, this is the correct explanation.

    Create just one session. In the C1 navigator browse your folders, edit and export images.
    When you have a set of new images you have to create new folder and copy them into. No import at all.
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  • SFA
    [quote="syncrasy" wrote:


    I don't have clients, I don't use projects, and I don't shoot tethered. I maintain a database of personal photos and manage them with Media Pro's vast DAM features. I ingest, annotate, edit RAWs (not with C1), generate derivatives, archive, and make new Web galleries as needed. All images are referenced from the Media Pro catalog, so why would I need yet another system of referencing?



    If you have an entirely independent DAM you don't need a C1 catalogue and you probably don't need to ingest files in a Session since you have already done that, presumably, with Media Pro.

    For those that do not have Media Pro or similar a session based work flow was the only option before Phase introduced Catalogues but it was and still is entirely possible to bypass the assistance it offers if you don't perceive any benefit from it - which might well be the case when using Media Pro.

    I'm not familiar with the specifics of Media Pro although I do plan to take a look soon.

    The default session data structure allows me to create a complete set of images, whether a single shoot or a subject related set captured over time, that I can treat as a single "item" for moving it around - backup identification and archiving for example. But I am not constrained by that internal structure since I can associate folders (and the file within them) that are outside the structure with the session database. Those could be folders already created by using Media Pro for example. But then I assume there is no reason that Media Pro cannot likewise do what it does with session created folders too. They are not locked up in any sort of specialised vault.

    During import I find it useful to specify where I want the imported files to go, sometimes subdividing into subfolders based on the metadata in the file, how I want the files to be named (a token based naming system), apply copyright and sometimes styles although I usually keep that very simple since I rarely shoot anything where a persistent complex style would be appropriate for an entire shoot - and in any case it's not so difficult to do that afterwards in processing.

    I would imagine that there is no reason to change that approach if also using Media Pro although maybe some Media Pro functionality may make it redundant anyway?

    For occasional random shots - or samples downloaded from the internet - I simple navigate to the file through an open C1 session and look at the file. Unless I choose to move it into the session folder data structure or make its parent folder a "Favourite" the session takes no great interest in the file or its parent folder. All edits are retained in the file's local folder and can be used during any future visits to the folder using C1.

    HTH.

    Grant
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  • syncrasy
    [quote="Ian3" wrote:
    If you have a long-standing collection of existing images, you most probably don't want to mess with the arrangement of folders and organisation that you already have. But for new stuff, you might think if giving C1s method of organisation a try.

    Keep in mind that my organization scheme in Media Pro is almost entirely achieved through annotations (metadata) and virtual Catalog Sets (“User Collections: Albums†in C1 terminology), not physical folders. It isn’t clear that C1 will improve my organization, whether for old or new stuff.

    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    For those that do not have Media Pro or similar a session based work flow was the only option before Phase introduced Catalogues but it was and still is entirely possible to bypass the assistance it offers if you don't perceive any benefit from it - which might well be the case when using Media Pro.

    Yes. I suspect a lot of my (and perhaps others') confusion on this subject is due to the fact that Phase One and veteran C1 users regard C1 as “home base.†They ingest, edit and organize in C1. But for many Media Pro users who were introduced to Phase One after it acquired Media Pro, Media Pro is “home base.†It’s the center of our workflow, agnostic of editor. From my perspective, “Sessions†are unnecessary both conceptually and practically. So adding C1 to my workflow doesn’t fit with the paradigm of a raw editor being secondary to a DAM, and its perplexing that C1 would impose structures that must be ignored. I suspect Aperture or Lightroom refugees share this perspective, more or less, if they relied on those applications for DAM functionality. On a side note, but related to the original poster, I feel sympathy for folks who are trying to use Apple Photos as a DAM.
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  • SFA
    Somewhat coincidentally a mail from Phase popped up today realted to a blog post with some tips for lesser known features in C1.

    Item 2 has relevance to this discussion.

    https://blog.phaseone.com/11-nifty-tips ... pture-one/


    Mark,

    If you are not using folders for storing images you basically have one huge(?) folder and you are doing in Media Pro exactly what C1 offers in terms of meta data grouping and selective searches for both Catalogues (very much the "chuck it all in one bucket" approach although people still seem to like to use folders it seems) and Sessions (can be the same - everything in the "Capture" folder, it's a virtual folder so can be pointed anywhere).

    However sessions are typically used for smaller bunches (running out of grouping words that are not already used with specific meanings!) of images to be worked on. So no huge catalogue baggage to wade through unnecessarily. Especially good if on the road for example.

    There's no right and wrong to any of this. People can adapt the options to their needs and work as they wish to work. There is nothing to prevent users adopting any of the options for any specific purpose. Mixing usage of Catalogs, Sessions and "passthrough" sessions (nb. any session at all can be "passed through") to edit a random file on the fly without adding any data in the session to connect it to that file.

    It is easy to get hung up in the terminology - as I did with C1 at V5/6 when I first tried it. But in fact it is a very open system and much more flexible than I thought it was at first sight.

    However, as you point out, if you are already using a DAM which satisfies all your organisational needs then a C1 session as a means to activate the editor need only be there for "pass through" purposes which are pretty much invisible if you want them to be unseen.

    HTH.


    Grant
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  • syncrasy
    Grant,

    Actually, I do use a few folders. In simple terms, my structure looks like this:

    • Folder 1 - Import / Process (cull, annotate, process raws, make derivatives), then move to:

    • Folder 2 - Archive (my "chuck it all in one bucket" folder, although recently I had to split it into "year" subfolders for faster loading in Nikon NX-D)

    • Folders 3, 4, 5 etc. - versions for print or special uses (e.g., bordered TIFFs made in Photoshop)


    My folders are workflow oriented, not content oriented. Because Nikon is my raw editor, I do have to do some gymnastics to make sure my XMP sidecar files get moved with the image files, but it's fairly straightforward.
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  • SFA
    [quote="syncrasy" wrote:
    Grant,

    Actually, I do use a few folders. In simple terms, my structure looks like this:

    • Folder 1 - Import / Process (cull, annotate, process raws, make derivatives), then move to:

    • Folder 2 - Archive (my "chuck it all in one bucket" folder, although recently I had to split it into "year" subfolders for faster loading in Nikon NX-D)

    • Folders 3, 4, 5 etc. - versions for print or special uses (e.g., bordered TIFFs made in Photoshop)


    My folders are workflow oriented, not content oriented. Because Nikon is my raw editor, I do have to do some gymnastics to make sure my XMP sidecar files get moved with the image files, but it's fairly straightforward.


    Looks a lot like Sessions to me Mark! 😊

    Folder 1 = Capture
    Folder 2 = Selects
    Folder 3, et, al = Output and potentially multiple versions of it.

    Sessions have a wastebin too. An intermediate stage to deletion in case you change your mind and wish to re-instate.

    Whilst a Session does create "physical" folders by default and those are within the session folder structure, you can in fact point override those pointers and make the labels of Capture, Selects and Output (and even Waste bin) point wherever you wish.

    Obviously if you are ingesting to Media Pro any session stuff for which you might want to establish regular access could be set up that way. Moving files in the linked folders and other folders marked as favourites when within C1 in a session will automatically move C1's sidecar and cache files at the same time.

    All just for info. I'm not trying to suggest you change over - just providing a reference point and maybe over-expanding on the details for the benefit (?) of others who might one day pass by this thread and drop in for a read.

    That said I don't use selects to a separate folder, rarely use delete and almost always, when using "Capture" as a top level folder, add images to subfolders usually on import where I also name the folders and images as part of the process - something that comes with import functionality.

    I use Output regularly.

    I do mostly (by volume) shoot events of various types and so there is some logic to keeping the event activity together as a primary workflow driver and looking at other groupings for selected images from the resulting completed edits.

    For random opportunity shots that I wish to categorise I tend to have certain Sessions that I keep running and just add to from time to time as images are shot.

    I had a backup backup drive suddenly fail a couple of weeks ago so have used that as an excuse to buy a NAS that I will run in RAID configuration and take the opportunity to consolidate some older data that is scattered over several external drives. At that point I may deploy Media Pro to help with gathering and tidying up within the new NAS and then retire the older drives or redeploy them for off line backup. I am anticipating that being able to look into this session by session should be useful Some of the sessions have several thousand images but moving a complete session is easy no matter the size.


    Grant
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  • NNN636461007451133516
    [quote="David532" wrote:
    [quote="NNN636461007451133516" wrote:
    I tried. It works only sometimes. And the RAW file is not sent to C1, only the jpeg version. Really frustrating, but I guess it's a limitation of Photos.

    Ignore session folders, session albums and session favourites entirely and just navigate to the picture you want to edit in the system folders pane. (Capture One will leave a small file in the folder containing the picture/pictures you edit containing the edit data).


    What I actually tried was to select C1 as an external editing program on Photos (by right clicking the picture I want to edit). Sometimes it opens C1 with the picture I want to edit, but only JPEG's are imported.
    If I navigate to the system folders, when I save the adjustments I make on a RAW picture, will it save those in Photos as a JPEG version, for example? Will it be "linked" to the original picture, the same way it was possible with Aperture?
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