Discovering DAM apps, Another round with MPro?
Once again as my other DAM (ACDSeePro) doesn't support IIQ files, I was on the prowl for an alternate DAM, and in the works of possibly using IDIMager, I decided to take another look at Media Pro. I left it, as it was clonky, and froze up at times, and I honestly forgot. I do remember I had major issues with TIF which may have resolved with WIC, but I still left it behind to fall back on ACDSeePro5.
So far I tried/tested and ruled out Extensis Portfolio as the interface is too limiting(preview within same window). I didn't have easy access to what files should display, and no way of having different "Terms" or distinctions show at same time etc...most issues one faces without a Browser window, although MediaPro does have a clever way around this. I still prefer a Browser with folder list.
IDImager looks good, but limited file types. It is a top contender.(ACDSee having the limit of no IIQ prompted my search).An Adobe product LightRoom(while not a true DAM) doesn't even support PDF or InDesign files(both Adobe formats), while MediaPRO does!
So I look at MP again as a contender.... By the end of today... How easily will I get around to organizing and seeing results;
This includes looking at either C1 Tethered images, or off a CF card. and placing them in the pre exisiting folders. Then, launching specialty apps, or making LR edits, then Photoshop edits, saving back to MediaPro, and seeing results, then using MediaPro to make smaller Jpeg version of that with a watermark and saving to a Jpeg/Email folder and then having the front desk use that file as an email sample? Once approved, within MediaPro launch InDesign, and making a PDF final.
That is the daily task here. As many others doing this if working with clients or magazines.
We don't need access to MediaPro and catalog at the same time as there already is a Folder stucture that can be accessed via ANY BROWSER. So if Tom, or Harry, Dick need to send a file to client, they have access to EMAIL folder of the clients files, and can do so from any computer!
On that bomb shell, I think this is what all these DAMs boil down to in capability, and writing this helped me realize that!
lets see how it pans out. So far the biggest issue I still see is this PSD, WIC PSD Decoder, Photoshop differences. Hope this is a redundancy I can ignore without issues.
So far I tried/tested and ruled out Extensis Portfolio as the interface is too limiting(preview within same window). I didn't have easy access to what files should display, and no way of having different "Terms" or distinctions show at same time etc...most issues one faces without a Browser window, although MediaPro does have a clever way around this. I still prefer a Browser with folder list.
IDImager looks good, but limited file types. It is a top contender.(ACDSee having the limit of no IIQ prompted my search).An Adobe product LightRoom(while not a true DAM) doesn't even support PDF or InDesign files(both Adobe formats), while MediaPRO does!
So I look at MP again as a contender.... By the end of today... How easily will I get around to organizing and seeing results;
This includes looking at either C1 Tethered images, or off a CF card. and placing them in the pre exisiting folders. Then, launching specialty apps, or making LR edits, then Photoshop edits, saving back to MediaPro, and seeing results, then using MediaPro to make smaller Jpeg version of that with a watermark and saving to a Jpeg/Email folder and then having the front desk use that file as an email sample? Once approved, within MediaPro launch InDesign, and making a PDF final.
That is the daily task here. As many others doing this if working with clients or magazines.
We don't need access to MediaPro and catalog at the same time as there already is a Folder stucture that can be accessed via ANY BROWSER. So if Tom, or Harry, Dick need to send a file to client, they have access to EMAIL folder of the clients files, and can do so from any computer!
On that bomb shell, I think this is what all these DAMs boil down to in capability, and writing this helped me realize that!
lets see how it pans out. So far the biggest issue I still see is this PSD, WIC PSD Decoder, Photoshop differences. Hope this is a redundancy I can ignore without issues.
0
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So far,
Some detailed behavioral ISSUES
I cant get the Terms of file types to work, and this is the ONLY method of knowing what I work with without having a browser window(Would be a super addition to have a folder/browser window).
I click Adobe Acrobat Doc, I see Ai, PSD, Indd, and 3 PDF's
I try and Update the thumbnails as the PSD files are just icons(some generic camera image). So Control B doesn't work.
I thought perhaps it is only in this view. Nope! So I took a PDF, and tried to have it launch Explorer to see if it would poplate the thumbnail so it could read from this thumbnail build.
I chose Open With, and it just opened Explorer, but no file came up. I tried a few things, then tried launch a different file in Photoshop, same thing. No launch. Further tests and addition of WinExplorer/Filemanager, it looks like if you select WinExplorer to launch, it uses WinExplorers default app to launch whatever else it uses. Basically you CAN'T open the file in the Explorer folder!
I'm slowly gathering why I left MediaPro, and couldn't imagine anyone using it successfully unless maybe the MAC version works better(wouldn't that be a conundrum!(MS)
I also noticed I have the Update folders field greyed out unavailable, so I tried to do a Find Missing items, as I have made some changes since, and when launched it did sound like it looked for them. But I rather do a manual update rather than have Every minute or 5 minutes..etc.. But it doesn't work.
So the File format is a jungle and mixed up as I have cross contamination within Terms. It can surely use a Term/Format "definer" or some way to clear this up.
I have:
AdobeAcrobat Document (selecting this indesign file appears/icon only)
Canon RAW(ok I think)
InDesign Doc (oddly have these files, but shows blank/zero)
JPEG (comes up with mostly jpegs, and a PSD. An Update to this file changed it to the JPEG it actually was/Based on file size)
Text
TIFF (Not sure if these are TIF's or the older PhaseOne format for RAW?) Well , when I launch it the RAW is up, but in the MP lightbox it is the small TIF preview!) conundrum#2 , Where is the PhaseOne TIF RAW Term? or IIQ Term? Ouch!
WIC Adobe XMPbased thumbnail Provider(FPVCodec) This brought up PDF and INDD files.
WIC Photoshop Doc Decoder(FPV Codec Pack) This brings up PSD files.I thought I had more?!
WIC PSD Decoder (Isn't his redundant?) This brings up 2 PSD, 1 indd, and a TIF files. PSD is the only one with a thumbnail.
Now, I don't know about you, but if I use a rather BASIC computer(i7 860 Quad3.2GHz, 16GB ram, SSD OS, SSD PageFile and Swap for PS, Files on Intel servers with 60-80 constant trans speed)....
.... with MINIMAL apps installed (about 10 to 12 image related apps)...
And I'm having this many issues...What do others do?!!0 -
Earlier I had a catalog open with No Folder view.
Now I open another and I have FOLDERS!! I'm happy, but why is this unclear?
The lack of consistency is surely a core issue.
I know my above posts are long, but they are detailed observations I hope you can read and report.0 -
So not having the update Folder yet even with Catalog Folders showing up now. I decided to import folders. I did it based on the last time the folder was saved with a little overlap, so I used the date calendar in the import screen.
The biggest problem I see is that all I have is my servers HDD activity light showing that this is still importing files. Otherwise it looks like it isn't doing a thing!... Except not respond.
I also see that the catalo I had was maybe BAD.
I made a new one and things are working BETTER!
I still have some thumbnails (these are PDF) still not coming up as I see in Explorer. I did open up in Reader and the folder which populates Explorer with the preview thumbnail.... but the REbuild Item in MP doesn't look like it works.
I will continue to post here, and I hope you don't mind.
Thanks!0 -
[quote="Raffi3" wrote:
I will continue to post here, and I hope you don't mind.
Thanks!
I don't mind at all. More than likely, I'll learn something.
Jim0 -
Glad to hear Jim 😊 I am learning that my patients between juggling IDImager, MediaPro, ACDSeePro5, LR4, is rather maddening. ( I have ruled out ExtPortfolio, PhotoMechanic,Faststone, Breeze, Bridge and LightRoom for DAM.
But I know that it takes time to adapt to a way of working. Right now, I am cursing at the way IDIMager allows, I should say dis-allows you to see files in folders!!! I will surely write about IDImager, but not in this thread.
Each one has its strengths and then suicide with the downfall of another function. I believe the one app that has made it easy, and I keep defaulting to, ACDSeePro5... even though I cannot see IIQ, I can do ALL else with logical ease. The browser works as it should, Export process files with easy all within the interface or right clicks. It really is superior....But..
I have not given up on MPro (nor IDi just yet), specially since I got the browser/folders showing....The stuttering delays when switching from folder to folder in MPro is a bit confusing...(did it hang? do I press again? Is it gonna switch? Surely it needs that patients as it did eventually switch. This is grueling work folks!!!!0 -
Raffi,
A small detail, slightly off-topic, but:
You said that you can see PDF in tumbnails - and in Media view maybe also?
Which environment you have - I have trying to get PDF thumbs to be seen, but I only get PDF icons, also after installing FPV. When trying to view PDF in Thumbnail view, in the right corner there is seen the WIC Adobe XMP based PDF... ...FastPictureViewer and so on.
In Media view, there is only red box with information that no Importer found for PDF.
Do I have to make something to get PDF's visible? Or is it not possible?
I'm running latest XP 32 bit. Only possible with W7?
Lenni0 -
I know that between Xp and Win7 (I'm running W7-64bit), there are a good amount of changes in the way the OS handles thumbnails.
For my situation, If I can see the PDF's in File Manager/WindowsExplorer, You should see them in Media Pro.
If the OS didn't see them, other apps didn't.
I ended up deleting every program file related to PDF, cleaned the registry. then installed latest Reader X.
Then a 64bit patch. Then opened a PDF in Reader, let it load. then using Reader, open the folder that you opened the file from. This will start changing the icons. Then you go to Explorer and open that same folder. It starts making thumbnails!
Thats how it worked for me. Then in Media Pro, I think I re-imported files or made a new catalog.
Somebody DO SOMETHING!! I read a quote some a year back..
" There hasn't been a time with so many amazing pictures. There hasn't been a time with so many horrible pictures..." I guess this goes across all industries as the world shifts?!!
🤓0 -
Raffi3,
Thanks for explanation
I also can see the thumbnails in Explorer, but no way to get them into MP.
I'm lost, I think at the moment this seems to be too complicated with PDF's.
Lenni0 -
post a new thread. I am confident you will be helped within 48hrs. 0 -
well, I finally installed MPro 1.2 and for the life of me I can't get a few thumbs to show properly. For starters I have a Jpeg thimb that looks like the thumb is in IR bw mode. THe image looks like inverted or something. I tried a number of ways to have it rebuild correctly it didn't. Remove Update, Rebuild.
I have a couple PDF files with only icons showing. At one point it showed Adobe Photoshop WIC reading the file, while later it shows Adobe XMP based thumbnail. Is there a way to remap the decoders individually?0 -
Looks like this happens when you save JPEG in CMYK with profile tag. Either the profile is not rea, or the thumbs is out of wack 0 -
IDImager looks good, but limited file types.
You can add whatever file types you like to the program in the options menu.... Idimager has many options (some may say too many) and is certainly a top DAM choice. We'll see what MP brings along here.. so far.. I'm on the fence.0 -
And what about the remarks of Hans that IDimager "is not an option since support and documentation is non existing and development seem to have stopped"?
see topic:
I considered IDimager as the most serious alternative to Media Pro but i also noticed that it's very quit on the user forum of IDimager. In the past i made the choice for Expression Media (now Media Pro) based on "the DAM book" (Peter Krogh) but now i kind of regret it. The last thing i want to do is to choose another DAM that i'm gonna regret in a few years from now...
So, Ligthroom attracts me more and more. Adobe is a very solid party, their standars become often industry standards, Lightroom is getting better and better, the most recent release is very afordable and i read almost nothing negative about it!
Roelof0 -
Yes, LR is OK IF you only care about 3 file formats, and THATS IT!
RAW, JPEG, TIF, and compatible PSD. PSB, NO PNG, NO PDF, Which is OK, but the bad part is it doesn't even see those files. It simply ignores them. If it just used a thumb place holder, it would be helpful to at least launch the appropriate app.
Also it is missing a browser window. Most important thing I think.
So, it really isn't a DAM, it is a RAM 😊
Have I mentioned ACDSeePro5?
This works rather flawless, with 1 MAJOR setback. AS of today, it doesn't do IIQ files ☹️0 -
I don't have a list of File Types any longer.
I don't see any tiffs either....?0 -
[quote="rmoorlag" wrote:
And what about the remarks of Hans that IDimager "is not an option since support and documentation is non existing and development seem to have stopped"?
see topic:
This must be some misunderstanding because Photo Supreme, the Mac version of IDimager, is just released.
regards,
Tappari0 -
Not a misunderstanding. I tested the beta version of IDImager. The "sharp" version has now been released but is only available from AppStore. Apparently there is no trial available. It might be that the sharp version is considerably better than the beta version but I for one will not buy the sharp version without having the opportunity for a test period.
//Hans
Edit: I just got confirmation that no Trial is available. If you want to test, you will have to buy (I won't).0 -
[quote="Raffi3" wrote:
Yes, LR is OK IF you only care about 3 file formats, and THATS IT!
RAW, JPEG, TIF, and compatible PSD. PSB, NO PNG, NO PDF, Which is OK, but the bad part is it doesn't even see those files. It simply ignores them. If it just used a thumb place holder, it would be helpful to at least launch the appropriate app.
Also it is missing a browser window. Most important thing I think.
So, it really isn't a DAM, it is a RAM 😊
Have I mentioned ACDSeePro5?
This works rather flawless, with 1 MAJOR setback. AS of today, it doesn't do IIQ files ☹️
No. LR4 is not OK at all as a DAM. I have no idea how come people talk of it (LR4) as a DAM. It is not! I don't use it to process RAW images (I prefer DxO) and I regret I've tried to use it as a DAM. Unless you crack the SQLite DB that is behind it (which I was not able to - nor to find any useful information about it on the net) its search capabilities are scarce. And its performance, even after waiting 3 days to it to render all possible previews, is a joke.
I wish I've found this information before wasting my time with it. But I am still search the DAM to beat Expression Media...
Best.
Felipe.0 -
I have no idea how come people talk of it (LR4) as a DAM. It is not!
I consider Ligtroom as a DAM because of "The DAM book for photographers" from Peter Krogh. In the second edition he talks a lot about LR (in the first edition it's almost only about Expression Media) for this purpose.
Why is LR not a DAM in your opinion?
Roelof0 -
Unless you crack the SQLite DB that is behind it
Did you 'crack' the database of Expression Media ? 😉
Roelof0 -
[quote="rmoorlag" wrote:
...Why is LR not a DAM in your opinion?
Roelof, you did not ask me, but I fully share the opinion of Felipe that LR is not a DAM. At least not a real DAM. LR covers some DAM requirements of RAW photographers and this quite well. But for others like me a couple of big drawbacks makes the asset management with LR nearly impossible:- No support for XMP files with JPG (and no configuration to solve this)
- No preview for most non-image file formats
- No or bad support for virtual drive letters (subst) and network drives (net use)
- Challenging configuration for multi-user operation
- A lot of commands are not really fast, because a lot of clicking is necessary
- A lot of addons are required for very basic needs (for the good addons you have to pay)
- No drag&drop support to drag files (e.g. JPG) to 3rd party applications (presentations SW)
- Limited interface to other non-Adobe products
I started also with Lightroom, but left soon for MediaPro. Luckily I reached finally IDImager. For all digital images I am using now IDI, for MP3-music Winamp, but for for all other media files I am using MediaPro. MediaPro has a couple of drawbacks for flexible digital image workflow and larger image collections (> 10000 files) , but the basic principle is very good for media collections with very different files and extensions (video-clips, audio-samples, pdf, ttf, animated gifs, bmp, ppt, ...).
Regards from PhaseZero0 -
[quote="rmoorlag" wrote:
I have no idea how come people talk of it (LR4) as a DAM. It is not!
I consider Ligtroom as a DAM because of "The DAM book for photographers" from Peter Krogh. In the second edition he talks a lot about LR (in the first edition it's almost only about Expression Media) for this purpose.
Why is LR not a DAM in your opinion?
Roelof
Sorry I didn't promptly reply your question, Roelof. Somehow the forum system didn't told me there was a reply here.
Anyway, have you ever tried to import 50K images (JPEGs and Canon RAW) to Lightroom? It took me a whole 3 days to do it! Not to import, but to render the previews.
Worst, after all this time (yes, I should have tested with a smaller subset...), I've found that can't have an offline library and simply view a good render of the offline file without the excruciating "The file named XXXXXX is offline or missing" message over the image I want to see (or show), except using the Survey view (and, then, have to comply with the excruciating slow time to draw the preview). The message can't be hidden, or turned off. It is just there, over your image. All the time!
Another thing that bothered me a lot is that one can't find an image by simple parameters (e.g., width, height, thumbnail size - even though I can find this data on the sqlite database Lightroom uses - no I didn't crack it, I just used sqlite3 to examine it), or create queries using the NOT operator.
PhaseZero pointed several other missing features of Lightroom 4. The Drag&Drop does not work with RAW files, either. So I have all the pictures I want to send to DxO (e.g.) selected on Lightroom, but there is now way just drag and drop it there.
I've been trying for a long time to find a good DAM to replace the now defunct Media Pro that I keep using. I need speed, stability, scalability, ability to search the (even offline) catalog trough complex queries and, more important: penetration with photographers! Just like you said yourself, I don't want to invest (time is a bigger concern than money) on a DAM that will eventually disappear because few people support its development!
I just realized that Media Pro released the 1.3. I will give it another try.
Best.
Felipe.0 -
Thanks PhaseZero and Felipe for pointing this out. As i'm working with Expression Media i never tested Lightroom extensively. However because of Peter Krogh's book i considered Ligthroom as a serious alternative on EM/MP. The development on MediaPro is so slow, release 1.3 not even comes close to what i have now.
I realy would like te make a step forward.
So, based on your feedback, Lightroom is not the alternative i'm looking for?
Only IDimager remains than?
However, i see opposing opinions about IDI also...
What to do?
Roelof0 -
I will answer backwards: [quote="rmoorlag" wrote:
(...)
What to do?
Roelof
Apparently, keep looking! 😊
I am absolutely open, at this moment, to any good suggestion of real DAMs.[quote="rmoorlag" wrote:
Thanks PhaseZero and Felipe for pointing this out. As i'm working with Expression Media i never tested Lightroom extensively. However because of Peter Krogh's book i considered Ligthroom as a serious alternative on EM/MP. The development on MediaPro is so slow, release 1.3 not even comes close to what i have now.
I realy would like te make a step forward.
So, based on your feedback, Lightroom is not the alternative i'm looking for?
Only IDimager remains than?
However, i see opposing opinions about IDI also...
Roelof
I've installed IDimager just once, about six months ago, on a machine that I don't have anymore. I really didn't use it enough to have any strong opinions about it, although I seem to remember that it creates lots of files while cataloging - what makes it less portable than I wanted. I keep coming to see how Media Pro is doing, while Expression Media keeps doing most of what I need (since I long time ago learned to live with its limitations), just like an old dog!
I've tried twice already to use Lightroom as a DAM. I've been using it to ingest the images for a long time, now (since Lightroom 2, I think), and eventually to do some corrections (raw development). But it simply does not do what I need of a DAM.
I might have being too harsh saying that is not a DAM. I've read The DAM Book (that, yes, has a huge bias on Expression Media) and I might be biased on the Expression Media way of doing things. But I've tried it twice. I've invested time to get used to it but...
Best.
Felipe.0 -
IDimager (IDI) died in summer 2012 and the follow up product PhotoSupreme (PSU) is not for all IDI and DAM users a real good replacement. PSU has a couple of drawbacks. Meanwhile I am a heavy user of IMatch (IM) v3.6 and testing also the v5.0beta. Both version are complex, but wonderfull, fast and very flexible. I use it now with Lightroom, but LR is just a RAW editor for me. With drag&drop I am opening the RAW files from IM in LR for editing.
Regards, Joseph0 -
[quote="PhaseZero" wrote:
Meanwhile I am a heavy user of IMatch (IM) v3.6 and testing also the v5.0beta.
Regards, Joseph
Three questions - 1. How stable is IMatch ? What does it take to crash it?
2. How flexible is the import function? from a camera card? renaming & keywords?
3. How easy is it to open a set of raw files in either Capture One or Lightroom (I use both).
Thanks,
Jim0 -
Three questions:
1. How stable is IMatch ? What does it take to crash it?
2. How flexible is the import function? from a camera card? renaming & keywords?
3. How easy is it to open a set of raw files in either Capture One or Lightroom (I use both).
Thanks, Jim- The current official version Imatch v3.6 never (really!) crashed on my systems with Win7-32 and Win7-64. I use IMatch now for half a year for all my 30,000 digital images. The file import to IM is very transparent, because you can see the progress very clearly in the import window.
- Import to database and renaming is quite flexible. But I do not use it, because for my transfer from camera with extracting previews from DNG and creating new low resolution previews I meanwhile do everyhting with advanced batch files.
- Lightroom is a little bit problematic. You only can drag&drop one image from IM to LR. Then you can select in LR which other files from the image directory are imported. With C1 you can do it similar, but then ALL images from the source directory are imported. That is a drawback with C1. Anyhow I do not use C1 currently, because my Pentax K-30 DNG files are not supported since 9 months.
To my knowledge a lot of media software has problems with drag&drop. Lightroom is one famous example. So drag&drop of files from SW to other SW and vice versa is a must for me.
For my multimedia file collections MediaPro seems still to be the best choice. I had big problems with RAW files and the workflow between MP and C1, but using MP just for just mediafile asset management is highly efficient. Finally a couple of DAM do not allow opening multiple database file in parallel. Due to this I am using three applications in parallel for managing my assets (MP for media files, IM for image files and Winamp for audio files).
Regards from Joseph0 -
Thanks.
I may give IMatch a try. My frustration level with Media Pro continues to grow.
It seems to have the most potential, but its performance leaves a lot to be desired.0 -
Hello Jim,
for certain applications perhaps JPhotoTagger is also suitable. It is completely free! Its updated nearly weekly. It supports any file type. I like mainly its pure XMP sidecar based concept. The thumbnail concept is also nice. With any command line based external software (e.g. imagemagick, dcraw, mplayer) you can create jpeg files, which are then used in the thumbnail view. MediaPro and others can learn a lot from this nice tool. The lack of stability of MediaPro is know, but I was very suprised about MP limitations with read-only files and with the missing auto-sync of XMP sidecars.
When comparing current versions of JPT v0.30.5 with MP v1.3.1 I am considering leaving MP. Perhaps the announced MP v1.4 will improve dramatically, but I fear that just the workflow with C1 v7 is improved. Just a rough announcement about new features of MP v1.4 could change my mind. But the longer I use free JPT, the more I am biased (positively!).
Regards, Joseph0 -
Hello,
I have my projects organized using sessions and have not done any DAM so far. I was amazed by the C1+MediaPro-approach advertised by phaseone but since it doesn't work I am now looking for an alternative. With MP I would actually organize my raw-files with the corresponding C1-adjustments I understand.
With other software I can either tag and organize the RAW-files but won't have the processed image previewed or I organize the output jpegs, right?
Now JPhotoTagger does look quite nice so I would use it with the processed jpegs and since it creates seperate xmp files I will not even lose the metadata when reprocessing the image (since file name remains the same) right?
However is there a way of transferring the new metadata then associated with the processed jpegs back on the raw files in case I will at one point want to use MP?
Thanks,
Bastian0
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