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Don’t #@!% the customer



  • Gustavo Pizano

    Andreas Pohl,  My same thoughts. I feel disappointed as a photographer, outraged as a mac/iOS developer myself. 

    I was really hope Metal support finally, but nothing.. jesus xrist! 

    Same thoughts about David Grover, I love the webinars he does, I have learned a lot by them.

    I don't think is the developers to blame full on this, they have responsibility in the outcome of course, But I would blame more the enterprise/business department and probably whoever is on top of them that prefer making, or trying to make, more money than give the customers something they are asking for long time ago.  I can't believe the developers in more than 2 years haven't raised concerned about implementing Metal engine for processing and editing.  If they have, I wonder where in the backlog this ticket is. 

  • Luka

    Hello Anday, hello Gustavo,

    I fully agree with your opinions - what this company has been asking us to do for a long time should at least not pass us by without our justified critical comments. What else can we do in this situation? Oh yes, cancel the subscription, buy another image editing programme.

  • Markus Stamm

    I am fully with you regarding the lack of features and improvements. As a long-time Apple Aperture user (from day one) I still feel that the discontinuation of Aperture left a hole in the market that even years later neither Adobe nor C1 (nor anyone else) managed to fill. And I can't thank Tyshawn Cormier enough for Retroactive, his outstanding piece of software to keep Aperture alive even on Big Sur.

    What I honestly don't get, though, are the ongoing complaints about the pre-order offer. First of all, this was an offer, not an obligation to buy. And it was an offer to save a bit of money over the regular (fairly priced, IMO) upgrade fee, in case you decide to buy early.

    For those familiar with the software and the company (as you seem to be), it is not a secret that there is a yearly upgrade cycle and no official publication on new features before the software is actually released, but also regularly a beta program that can easily be joined by license holders. And that typically gives a pretty good overview about the new features and improvements coming in the next release. Enough insight for me at least to decide if the upcoming upgrade is worth the upgrade price (and maybe a pre-order) or not. That's an individual decision in the end... what is "not more than a short list of minor improvements" to you might be time and money saving features for others, easily justifying the upgrade price (speed edit for example).

  • Gustavo Pizano


    I agree that it becomes a choice form the customer to pay or not the upgrade, even when unreleased. Not everybody got word from the beta, there was an NDA where it was forbidden to talk about it, so we can't say that there was a beta and we could have known from there what c21 was bringing.  

    You as an Apple user, as am I, imagine if Apple or another company creates a promotion for upgrade/buy of an unreleased product without even hinting what is it, or what will bring.  CaptureOne is in the right to do so, but by doing so they are asking the customers with their trust, and coming up short on expectations (because they were raising those expectations very high, remember the "We wanna keep it secret a little longer" statement from C1? ), then that trust is broken imho, and when this happens comes the outrage. 

    Speed edit?... well Im a portrait photographer, Im not bulk editing a bunch of portraits, I carefully do D&B, masking and so on. I make sure my Exposure is right out of camera, and when I have that for the whole series, I can make basic adjustments in one image and apply to the rest of the session's before I go on the specifics per image. So no, speed edit is not something worth the upgrade, maybe for others its is, and that's great.  Let's not forget the licensing change on seats policy  that people mentioned around, the lack of Big Sur support for C20, which they said it will come and today no word about it, they don't even mention it, why?, my guess they wanna put that 6 feet under so to force people buy c21. Something they have mastered to do in the past years, also lacking support  for so long on something that will eventually bring performance improvements is disappointing.

    This are just my thoughts. I really hope people who bought/pre-ordered/upgraded to CO21 will be happy and if not, I hope CaptureOne will step in and fix whatever is necessary and listen to user feedback.

  • Markus Stamm


    the existence of the beta program itself is not a secret. There is even a pinned thread started by C1 in this very forum.

    The licensing change has been partly reverted (3 activations for perpetual licenses, 2 for subscriptions), I read that as a sign that complaints here and elsewhere do at least have some impact on C1 decisions. C20 has been working on Big Sur without any issues on my machine, so even if it is not officially supported, there's a big chance it will work if you're adventurous enough to try it on a productive system (and while we're at it: as photographers we're really blessed in that regard, just look at all the warnings from audio software companies to their clients each time Apple releases a major macOS upgrade to the public). Apple silicon support will be coming for sure, even if there is no official news yet (and look how much Adobe struggles with it so far). Well, Metal, yeah... who knows.

    Don't get me wrong. I am a C1 customer, but not a fully happy C1 customer. If there is reason to criticize the software or the company, I fully support any respectful way to do so. Personally, for example, I am bound to C1 because I use it for lens reviews and need to keep the test environment, including the software workflow, consistent. But for my own work, I would likely be very tempted if someone released a DAM that is as powerful as what Apple released with Aperture more than 15 years ago. I do like the results C1 delivers, though, and I really appreciate that they offer a choice between regular licenses and subscriptions.

    My personal opinion is that complaining about the preorder offer is just not justified. To put it in harsh words: if you, as a grown-up and educated adult, knowingly spent money on a pig in a poke, please don't complain about the seller of that poke ;) 

  • Gustavo Pizano


    Thanks for the licensing news, I didn't know they revert it. About the c21 thread.. its is pinned and it says, forbidden to discuss anything about the beta there is that. 

    What about if I buy a new machine with Big Sur preinstalled? .. I will feel if I want support from it my arm is twisted into byuing c21. Yeah the software may run fine on Big Sur, but I also need to install the OS in my computer, as I said Im a developer as well and need to update my software, and potentially loosing the support on c20 because they "officially" don't, is something I don't wanna risk, as you say Im not that adventurous.  

    I 100% with you, I loved Aperture, is a pity what happened to it.  

    And because I am a fully grown up, I didn't gave my money away without known what I was getting beforehand. Im so happy for that choice. 

  • Markus Stamm


    sorry, I stand corrected, I just found out that C1 still offers only 2 activations to new users since Nov. 17th. The info about 3 activations was from an outdated knowledge base post, the current and actual info is here:

    I do have 3 activations with my license, which I bought long before Nov. 17th,  but upgraded to C21 after Nov 17th. So it seems the limitation applies only to completely new licenses, not to upgrades.

    Sorry if I caused confusion.

    Regarding Big Sur: yes, if you buy a new machine, you will not have much choice if you want official support. But that is true for any software you rely on for your business. And compared to the price of the new hardware, the upgrade price for C21 won't really hurt, will it? ;)

  • SFA

    The change in the number of activations is disappointing but, at least for the Pro version, simply reverts to the number that existed a few years ago. As I recall up to the time when the manufacturer special versions started to appear.

    There used to be a free "Express" type version up until about a year before that too.

    It seems the market and its suppliers use these changes in order to compete or respond to competitors - just like every other product retailer. Nothing to be surprised about.

    Not can I get really excited about the change when I consider the reality of it.

    Since in any case the licence arrangement (quite standard in the industry I think but happy to be corrected about that) allows for concurrent activations but not concurrent use one can install the software on as many machines as one wishes but only use them one at a time.

    So the effect is not that great in reality - mostly a matter of convenience in being able to start one device when turning off another without deactivating and reactivating.

    So I read the news and and was very disappointed. However, I have only ever used C1 on one machine after the enforced 64 bit update since I only have that one machine. So in fact it makes no different to me at all. So why would I need to be disappointed?

    I suspect that the usage stats will indicate that the majority of users do much the same - or at least the majority of users who are active users. Probably far fewer than the total number of license holders.

    It helps that, at least in theory, activation management is a much smoother experience these days than it used to be. That dos not make it perfect of course, if for no other reason than no distance comms or service source is certain to be trouble free 27/7/365.

    However the potential for making the activation service simple enough for purpose is there for those who for what ever reason need to change devices frequently.  Indeed this seems likely to have been driven by the Professional Industry wanting flexible licenses for "seats" whereby activations can be allocated day by day according to need. We can find that principle used throughout the world of software, trickling down from corporate software driven demands in recent decades combined with the ever growing concepts of Software as a Service via the internet and a subscription which will, inevitably, lead to ever greater control passing to the vendor or service supplier.


    So yes, it feels like something I have never needed has been taken away. But after thinking about it that loss is, to me, no loss at all.

    Others may not be so happy but, in reality, how will they be affected?

    If, for example, one has a Studio Desk top and a Laptop for travelling, one would only be using one system at a time in most cases and so that would be in line with the License agreement. What problem does that present and how might it be resolved most easily within the current process?

    Come up with a few use cases and present ideas for new license arrangements that satisfy your needs perhaps more perfectly than what is already offered. Consider too that there are Multi-user and Enterprise options available that might better suit many professional users.

    Tell Capture One what really works for you and suggest options that are not currently available. You never know what might come of the ideas - especially if the underlying principle is about Activation management options.


  • Duncan Andison

    Well... I didn't upgrade for the first time in many years. I looked at the Beta and thought... seriously?!?

    In the past I've been happy to carry on with C1, even though I really liked what Adobe are doing with their mobile version of LR. But this year, it has pushed me to look at the mechanics of it.

    Now, I've sorted a workflow that combines LR Cloud, LR Classic and C1. Using C1 for keywording and storing jpgs on a portable 2tb pcie drive. I'll just keep one device on the current Mac OS so I don't need to change C1 and I can use it for my keyboarding.

    Now I'm able to do what I wanted C1 to do. Allow me to use my mobile phone to sort out keepers and auto adjustments and initial processing leaving me with less to do when I get back to the office. 

    And, it's fast. No more zooming in and that initial delay for it to come into focus. There's so much to like about C1, but hell... they seem to either be getting lazy, complacent, lacking innovation or a mixture of them all. I mean, still not metal support!?!

  • Andrew Filipowicz

    Yes, yes and yes to all the comments in original post. 

    I also cannot stress enough how much David has done for capture one community. A big thanks to David for his enthusiasm and knowledge.


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