Old catalogs in C1 21

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13 comments

  • Jill Kuchar

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  • SFA

    Jill,

    At first site that looks like either more than one image combined somehow in the processing pipeline or an incomplete screen refresh. Can you comment on the latter suggestion?

    Presumably the catalog has been through any necessary new version update process?

    For the Image, being an older image in a previous catalog, which processing engine is it using? This can be identified n the Base Characteristics tool.

    Also try turning off the Hardware Acceleration in the Preferences (General tab) to see if that makes a difference (assuming it is currently indicated as "Auto" and the message under the settings values indicate that it is supposed to be working.

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  • Jill Kuchar

    Thanks

    The image was imported as a TIF that was created by Aurora HDR. I do this a lot and have never had a problem including files I imported in v21.

    I don't remember for certain whether it went through the update process, but assume it did as I think you have no choice. But I would have answered Yes if it asked.

    Engine is Capture One 20/21. It was originally imported v20.

    Changing acceleration made no difference. Yes they are both, display and processing, were on auto.

    It's possible it may only be doing it files that were imported as TIF

     

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  • SFA

    OK, so not old old!

    That really looks like a mix of the chunks of processed parts of more than one image are being sent to the display.

    Have you rebooted the Mac?

     

    I'm thinking something hanging around undeleted form some previous processing in the memory/disk workspace or bad file fragment references for some reason - though odd if it only affects TIFF files.

    I'm not a Mac person so others are likely to have better suggestions.

    I would also report it to C1 Support using the "Submit a request" option if you have not already done so.

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  • Jill Kuchar

    Thanks.

    Yes, I have rebooted.

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  • Jill Kuchar

    Just playing around a little more, it seems to be only on TIFs which have added layers from v20.

    I took a TIF that was created and imported at the same time as the problematic image, but I had not yet added a layer. The problem did not occur.

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  • SFA

    Jill,

    Interesting.

    Try this maybe.

    With a problem TIFF create a NEW variant.

     

    That should give you a pre-edit version using the V21 processing engine.

    Copy and past the edits for the problem variant to the new variant.

    Does that appear to work without any warnings? (I expect it will but it's not something I have tried before suggesting the idea.)

    Now what happens with the newly created variant?

     

    ALSO.

     

    CLONE the problem original variant. I presume that will still be using the V20 processing engine as it has been cloned.

    Does it still present the same problems?

     

    Now, if you feel like it, create a copy of the problem TIFF source file.  Import that copy.

    Create multiple NEW variants of it. Now. Now try the edits on the new copy OR try the copy and paste route for the layers from the original version to the new version.

    This way you may get some sort of clues about which part of the process is giving the problem.

    Is it something strange deep down in the way the OS is handling the file system perhaps (I have seen something like that once but that was using Windows. A long time ago. V6 or V7 as I recall and a different effect entirely.)

    Or is it something in the way the edits are being processed irrespective of the specific files involved for source, edit instructions, masks, etc.

    If it remains as is in all cases then that may be even more significant yet puzzling.

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  • Jill Kuchar

    Thanks.

    If you export as a variant to TIF you lose all the steps you have done to create the image. You need to export as an original EIP. However C1 don't seem to be able to do that from a TIF.

    Cloning a variant does just that. It gives exactly what I had. In other words the problem carries through to the clone.

    I'm using Mojave which is not the latest OS. But if that's the problem it would show bad testing and European s/w houses test better than their counterparts so that would be surprising.

    I put in a "Submit a request". See what response we may get.

    I assume that there are many people importing JPGs as that comes out of cameras. Perhaps working with TIFs is less common. TIFs are always the result of some other processing as in my case. But the source, in my case 3 or 5 images, should be lost to the TIF.

    Perhaps I'll try an import a TIF from a different source.

    There seems to be no change between the v20 and v21 Engine. The new version just shows "Engine: Capture One 20/21" whereas in v20 said the same (without the 21 of course).

    Yes very puzzling.

     

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  • SFA

    Hi Jill,

    Well, certainly a puzzle but what you have reported seems, to me, to suggest that it is not the source file that is the problem but rather something in the processing.

    Export has 2 modes. Basically the Original (so just a copy out) and then the edited version. EIPs were not something I had in mind since the purpose of an EIP is so "package" a source file and any edit information and similar.

    C1, being primarily developed as a RAW file converter, is as limited as anything else with "baked in" edits but a typical TIFF file might be expected to have considerably more retained information than any JPG of similar format. Obviously that is not always the case and certain aspects of RAW files (like the camera sources data) may not exist in a TIFF or even a DNG file, thus limiting the options the converter has to work with.

    Re the "engine"  - that was just a check. I have assumed that the core processing engine is the same in both versions but the way that the processing components work might have changed - a different order or something perhaps. Just speculation. No inside knowledge.

    I would offer to take a look at a copy of a problem image but there is little point since I am on Windows not Mac and Wind 7 at that, awaiting confirmation about whether V21 is or is not usable with Win 7. So I could only test with V20  - for which there is no testing requirement.

     

    Are you using heal or clone layers on the TIFF file when editing?

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  • Jill Kuchar

    Yes. All very strange.

    I too am using an old version of iOS. I wonder if that is connected.

    I don't want to burden you but it may be interesting to see of the Win version exhibits the same problem. You haven't yet installed v21?

    I hear what you are saying re TIFs. However I'm been happily do this for 3 years since I started with C1. You are correct in that I am relying on Aurora to bring in and interpret the RAWs. When I produce an image based on the Aurora TIF and then copy what I have done onto the middle exposure RAW, I get a very poor result. What I should do is process one of my images independently as the TIF and then on the middle RAW. I'm sure I would get very different results. When I have a couple of spare hours ...

    Thanks for you interest and assistance. Let's see if the company comes back with something.

     

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  • Jill Kuchar

    FYI I received the following from my "Submit a request" which took 6 days to be answered.
    __________
    Hi Jill,

    It appears that there may be an issue with the OpenCL pipeline of Capture One. 
    Try turning that off: under Preferences > General, about halfway down under Hardware Acceleration, set Display/Processing to Never.
    Then, restart Capture One to commit this change and try processing your images again.

    This will force Capture One to ignore the GPU when processing and generating previews.
    If it works fine with Hardware Acceleration disabled, try to rebuild OpenCL kernels as described in this article and enable Hardware Acceleration in Capture One: https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002404937-Troubleshooting-OpenCL-in-case-of-viewing-processing-exporting-problems

    Denis,
    Capture One Support.

    We encourage you to browse our Help Center for detailed product documentation, helpful pro tips, and much more.
    __________

    The last line is an insult to our intelligences.

    I responded:

    Thanks. As I expected it made no difference.

    You see the problem occurs ONLY with TIF files on which I have added layers in v12 or v20. RAFs on which I have worked do not exhibit the problem. Based on your referenced link I should have had the same problem in v12 or v20, but never did.

    I believe the problem has something to do with the way you handle imported TIFs.

    Thanks

     

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  • Jill Kuchar

    I have a further information.

    The bug only occurs when the image is at fit to screen!

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  • Jill Kuchar

    I am pleased, after all this time, to say that the new version out last week has solved the problem. I still find it hard to believe that I am the only one pushing the s/w this hard to 'see' the bug.

    While I am happy that we can now finally use the new version that has been out for over 3 months, I'm afraid it will take more than this to restore our confidence in the company. In the interim, we have started to look for alternatives.

    One of the problems I see with the way files are stored in C1 is that the best we can do if we make a move away from C1, is to export a TIF or start a edit from scratch again in the new software.

    Let's see how it goes from here on.

    Thanks everyone for you help

    Jill and Menachem

     

     

     

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