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[New License model] Dear Capture one team, did you know ...

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38 comments

  • Sylvain Beaucage

    I couldn't have said it better!

     

    4
  • JJ

    Hear, hear...

    3
  • John Friend
    Top Commenter

    Heavy discussion about licensing changes on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/captureone/comments/ze4jh4/upcoming_changes_to_perpetual_licence/

    1
  • Lost Carrier

    ...could not agree more!

    1
  • Andrej Salay

    Agree, too.
    And free alternatives like darktable which works also on Linux, is getting better and is approaching dangerousely near.

    3
  • C-M-B

    also:

    They definitely new about the changes BEFORE selling CO23 - guess why they announced it after the BlackFriday sale.

    also also:

    They have a nasty habit of presenting us with fake "discounts" for products that have never ever sold for the "full price". I'm pretty sure that's not quite legal... but oh well. 

    2
  • pavel wohrizek

    I couldn't have said it better!

    2
  • Dick Chan

    Well said. As a photographer who moved from Adobe because of their subscription only model, I feel a great sense of betrayal for Capture One's intention to go for the same direction. It's not whether I am willing to pay for the subscription as a professional photographer, it is more of a sense of security to be able to use the software to safeguard my massive photo retouching adjustments in the very long run. Subscription is simply a dead end once the company goes wrong with their products in the long run, or even go bankrupt. Users would still be tied up to subscriptions, or in the worse case not being able to subscribe, in order to work on the original adjustments of the original photos as a starting point for future retouching. 

    I would say subscription is a DEADEND licensing model for photographers who treasure their works in the long term!

    7
  • Pavel Derka

    C1, and I'm a user since version 3 - can go to hell now.  

    0
  • Jack W
    Admin

    The FAQ received an update yesterday based on the top discussion points. It’s worth taking another look if you haven’t done so already, as it covers some previously uncovered ground.

    We’ll be revealing more info on the loyalty program way before February 1st.

    3
  • John Friend
    Top Commenter

    @Jack D Williams -  It would be nice if you linked to the FAQ since I have no idea how to find it.

    1
  • Jonas Bengtsson

    I agree in, I don't like subscription model.

    Please keep the perpetual licensens.

    1
  • Emile Gregoire

    @John, here you go: https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/7998068628637?__s=5f0bttj7vbnebn75sgm6

    Short story: perpetual isn’t going away; it’s changing. I dislike software subscription as much as most here, but it’s simply not on the table (at the moment).

    0
  • Jack W
    Admin

    Sorry John Friend I thought it was linked in the original post. 

    Here it is.

    :) 

    0
  • Jack W
    Admin

    Jonas Bengtsson We're not getting rid of perpetual licenses.

    1
  • Stanley L. Green

    Jack D Williams

    In regard to your statement of, "We're not getting rid of perpetual licenses."

    "A rose by any other name..."

    -1
  • OddS.

    > Jack D. Williams: The FAQ received an update...

    Nothing new beyond the information already provided in the email that triggered all this. The examples may be useful for some, while the sentence: "You will receive bug fixes (16.x.x) up until a new paid version (16.x) is released" may confuse some users (perhaps clarify that 16.x to read 16.x+1 or 16.y or 17.x, or add an example).

    A "Release when it's time" regime may benefit code stability. Separating new features from bug fixes should avoid trouble caused by feature creep, thus also improve stability.  

    The still secret Loyalty Program must include a section where Capture One declares a strong loyalty to existing customers. They want to protect their investments just like Capture One does.

    I think you should state that any paid version (16.x, 17.x, 18.x,...) will receive bug fix releases for a minimum of 24 months from release date. You are not demonstrating loyalty by the measure that allows Capture One to reduce a user's access to bug fixes (protecting their investment) simply by issuing an early release of a next paid version. Make the bug fix period (24 months) independent of subsequent releases. Release a paid version every hour if you feel it's time, but do not cut the user's access to bug fixes short.

    New featured releases as you go may not be a good regime either. With a strong commitment to really fix the bugs,  It may stabilize versions that only get bug fixes. The "new features as you go" may just turn out to mimic the current state of affairs.

    Your Loyalty Program must also declare Capture One's commitment to bug fixing and have outstanding major bugs extend the normal (24 months) period of bug fixes. We all know there are a lot of issues dating years back, but you have to start somewhere.

    There is a lot more to say about it, but this will do for now.

     

    4
  • Guenther Bernhard

    My answer to Capture One after receiving a refusal of my requesting a refund for my C1 23 license. I bought C1 23 and some Styles on black friday. Some days after Capture One announced the new license rules which I don‘t agree. I would not have bought the 23 Upgrade if I knew it before! That‘s not fair of Capture One and they refuses the refund of my purchase. No wonder about my answer to Capture One…

    Hi Kristina,

     

    Thanks for your reply. Sadly a non personal copy and paste answer with the companies diction, which you will send to all other people who are claiming for the same reason. It’s your job to do so. This and your decision not accepting my claim shows me that in case of claims your company seems to act like „money first, customers satisfaction last“ rule. But it could be different. I know it, because I was customer care manager for over 20 years. In my times of working there was a rule, that a complaining customer which you could satisfy with your act of generosity would be a loyal customer for the future. But that seems not to be your investors philosophy. Regarding cause and effect it is to be feared that this case will chip away at your image. Look at the comment sections at Capture One in Europe and  in USA. Also DP Review comment section. You are on the way loosing customers. Many years ago I left Adobe because of subscrption for C1 and now I leave C1 for another better company. That‘s the circle of life…

     

    I am greatful that this case opened my eyes , that your company owned by a private Equity firm is not that company anymore I would spent my money for picture editing.

    Kind regards

    Guenther

    1
  • C-M-B

    Jack-W

    While you're at it: Why not implement "loyalty schemes" for subscribers as well? 

    I'm sure they won't mind only receiving 2 feature updates per year - but only after having subscribed for 2-3 years or having to pay higher fees for the first few years but only getting a few bug fixes throughout the year, right. Doesn't sound stupid, complicated or annoying at all, right?

    And hey, they've been asking for it!! All those nasty updates all the time, slowing down your workflow and those hundreds of new tools they've been forced to lear... that's just exhausting. Give them a break, will ya?

    Oh and another great idea: those who have subscribed before next Monday 10:00 EST will even get 4 feature updates per year, those who have subscribed after next Monday 10:00 EST will take part in the "sucks-to-be-you program" but don't worry - those details will only be revealed on Friday!

    0
  • Lamin Kivelä

    This has been comming for a long time with yearly "upgrades", a subscribtion in sheeps clothing.

    This is not about cost. It is about who to trust with my data and my work.

    I am leaving and maybe it is time to look at Open source again.

    What I waste.

    2
  • Jerry C

    It is hard not to be critical of the ambiguities in the new license scheme. Those of us with a perpetual license are mostly satisfied with what we have and don't anticipate great profit or pleasure needed from an as yet future feature. Many are annoyed at what we perceive to be manipulation. Still, when I look at my basic internet and cable TV, which annually cost me almost ten times a new purchase of Capture One, I wonder if I should save a lot of my anger for them. I have been trying to figure out how to get even with how they exploit me for years, but no matter who provides the service, a bargain is quite elusive.

    I own a capture One perpetual license and am used to the idiosyncrasies and benefits of Capture One and can use it easily for my purposes. I have a catalog with over 60,000 images and I do not want the burden of transferring them to a new photo app and re-editing them as I did when Aperture became deprecated, just to show Capture One how I feel about their marketing plans.  

    For those of you who mostly use sessions, this may not be such a big deal. You can adopt new software and open your old sessions with the last version of Capture One you own. I anticipate being able to use my current licensed Capture One until a software maker comes along who can import my catalog and accurately interpret the edits in a Capture One image, do as good a job of developing and editing my RAW files and has better asset management and features.

    Last, how might Phase One be viewing all of this? They sell very expensive cameras that depend on Capture One's software. Where does that leave Phase One if Capture One goes the way of Aperture?

     

    1
  • Bruce Sanderson

    I wonder how the new arrangement will work with regard to compatibility with new versions of the Operating System. In other words will changes to C1 to ensure compatibility with new OS versions be regarded as a functionality improvement and thus not available to existing perpetual licencees? Will installation of a new OS version force the purchase of a new Perpetual Licence whether or not the licencee wants any new or improved tools or other functional improvements?

    1
  • Rick M.

    From the looks of things, I will most likely be leaving Capture One in mid January. I will not engage in subscription pricing nor will I pay for highly restricted perpetual licenses. Another example of a company's greed getting in the way of a good product. When will they learn?

    2
  • Stanley L. Green

    Let me preface my comments with, “I agree with you, this latest C1 announcement is extremely disappointing “.

    But, let’s analyze their decision from a financial perspective; a company owes an obligation to their owners to maximize profit. Even though their announcement was a “bombshell” to us, I suspect that they have been paying a team of financial consultants for over a year to  come-up with this plan; evaluating customer loss vs income gain. Sometimes the consultants get it wrong, but look at how Adobe benefitted by going to subscription. When I left Adobe after 20 years, I doubt that they broke into a sweat.

    I would have kept PS & LR for ever if Apple hadn’t changed their OS. And, I plan to keep C1 (22) until I see a better option or it will no longer work on my Mac.

    When control of C1 was taken over by the “investment bankers”, this was the hand writing on the wall. It was only a matter of time until the profit motivation cranked up. Remember what Rhett Butler said to Scarlet O'hara, "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn"

    -2
  • Rachik Bouanani

    I also agree with you Stanley L. Green 👍

    But, the issue is not the business model, the issue is the repeated pattern that we had the last 15 years (trust issue) :
    Step 01 : Announce new subscription and keep the perpetual
    Step 02 : Force Perpetual users to move to subscription (lower price, feature only on sub ...) (like lightroom)
    Step 03 : When the ratio is very high on Sub, remove perpetual (like Lightroom)
    Step 04 : Increase the price

    In summary, it is not a business model issue (Because Subscription can have more benefits), but it's a trust issue.

    There is also some bad moves from Capture one, like the yearly discount that we have in October/Nov to buy the new C1 without knowing anything about the new features, or the Black Friday price lower than the pre-sales a month ago. It's a trust issue.

    1
  • Rick M.

    I agree. When a company breaks trust with its customer base, it is time to go.

    1
  • Stanley L. Green

    Yes, Vote with your feet! I have done it with other S/W vendors.  Just don't expect them "give a damn"

    2
  • Rick M.

    I do not have any expectations. I just walk away and do not look back. I hope more people will resist falling into the subscription trap and be good stewards of their hard earned money.

     

    1
  • Kip Vaughan

    Stanley they are already charging a ton for the product today. The upgrade to the latest version of C1 costs as much as Affinity Photo combined but you get an entire suite of illustration and page layout tools Affinity comes with for less money!! The Adobe photo package comes with multiple programs too. If they insist on being a one product company it is only assumed that they would make much less money then a company with three times as many tools.

    1
  • Stanley L. Green

    I am already an Affinity Photo user and have been since the initial release.  

    C1 released v22 and we were expected to debug it on the fly, meanwhile they concentrated on making an iPad version rather than making v22 work. Remember how we had to wait for C1 to make a Ventura compatible version. None of my other S/W vendors had that problem; the other guys got busy and worked with Apple to make a mod that was Ventura compatible BEFORE the Ventura release.

    1

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