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Softproofing in C1 like it is implemented in Lightroom ?

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12 comments

  • Walter Rowe
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    Capture One is ALWAYS soft proofing. The View > Proof Profile setting determines which ICC profile you are soft proofing. You also have the benefit of color readouts where you drop readout pins on the image and it tells you the output color values. As you edit you see them change. This lets you get 100% color accurate results that equal or exceed Adobe's toolset.

    https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002604118-Setting-multiple-readouts

    The Normalize Tool also allows you to set a specific color value and have Capture One ensure a point in the image matches that color value.

    https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002594057-Specifying-color-values-by-number-in-the-Normalize-tool

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  • Peter Schuster

    Thanks, Walter for your quick answer. If I got you right, C1 does it in a different way, even a bit better than Adobe, right ?

    Two Questions:
    - Is Saal Digital's evaluation technically correct ?
    - maybe this sounds a bit silly, but could you please direct me to a simple step-by-step reference (could be your favorite YT video) for an easy to follow workflow, where at the beginning I have a picture and an external ICC profile from the printing house, at the end the gained confidence, that the print I get, looks quite similar to the one on my hw-calibrated screen (and does not have the external ICC profile embedded) ?

    Cheers,
    Peter

     

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  • Walter Rowe
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    The Capture One user guide has an entire section on working with colors.
    https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/sections/360000690697-Working-with-Colors

    Also search the Capture One YT channel. They have so many great videos on many topics.

    The Color Editor Masterclass
    https://www.youtube.com/live/-AxbSQLgybQ?si=PuYAbR7YhkU3QiO5

    Appetising vs Colour Correct
    https://www.youtube.com/live/DSbi87Uapl0?si=zXz-gvlnFFqMQvYL

    Color Grading Your Photos
    https://www.youtube.com/live/tq1mx6adi6s?si=YvnDNLtnVl9BbWNZ

    There are so many videos out there.

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Hi Peter, 

    If you have a request here in the "Improve Capture One Pro" section then please use the template provided in this post:

    https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/8745099907997-How-to-make-a-feature-request-or-provide-feedback

    (second post from Jack)

     

    This increases the chances that developers will find it and the format gives more structure to them and contain already the questions they have in order to understand your request properly (provided you answer them).

    Also, consider being more precise in what you are requesting. "Please do it like another software is doing it" is generally not well-perceived or understood by developers/product managers (partly because it does not point out the specific problem. 

    Posting quotes from websites is not a good replacement for not filling out the form and be precise in what you are missing.

    To somehow proof that last point, Walter Rowe (another user here) did not understand what you want because he thinks C1 can do it already. Which is correct, to a certain extent.

    The only reason why I am so critical with you here is because I want a better soft-proof too, and it is good if you understand why the the template exists.

    In my next post I try to explain to Walter what the issue is.

     

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Hi Walter Rowe,

    The softproofing in C1 is inferior and the request from Peter may not be precisely formulated but is totally valid.

     

    The softproof function is missing black point compensation and simulation of paper white, as is recommended by the printing service Saal-Digital.com for some of their (very popular) papers. 

    Please, C1, include BPC and paper white simulation in the export recipies because they are commonly used for softproofing. 
    Export recipies would also be the right place to set the rendering intent (for the case that recipe proofing is enabled) instead of having to go to the preference dialog to change it.

     

    This printing service is explicitly addressing Capture One's inferior soft-proofing capability on there website and is discouraging their customers from using Capture One for soft-proofing.

    Here is the link 
    https://www.saal-digital.com/service/professional-zone/soft-proof-in-lightroom-photoshop-and-other-programs/

    Here is one paper (Hahnemuehle Photo RAG) where BPC is recommended:
    https://www.saal-digital.com/service/professional-zone/hahnemuehle-fineart-photo-ragr/

    Here is one paper (Fujifilm Crystal Archive DP II Professional Matte) where BPC and paper white (paper "color") simulation is recommended:
    https://www.saal-digital.com/service/professional-zone/fujifilm-crystal-archive-dp-ii-professional-matte/

    This issue concerns me frequently whenever I print my images, as I usually do not use PS or alike and I want to do my color editing in C1 completely.

    Workaround 
    in C1 is to set rendering intent in preferences for every paper I want to softproof (provided it has a different rendering intent), wasting time and my memory of the image proofed with the previous recipe is already gone (no A/B comparison between papers with different intent can be done), and just live without BPC and paper white simulation.
    Or I use another application which can do the proof, but then I am already out of  of C1 and cannot adjust contrast and colors in C1.

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Regarding BPC (relevant for the relative rendering intent), it is generally recommended to turn it ON, but it might not be recommended by all.

    Maybe C1 turns it on when Relative rendering intent is select but I was not able to find this information in the manual or FAQ or articles. What I found is that BPC is NOT supported by C1:

    https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002659197

    Their reasoning is in the context of precise LAB readouts, which is not a convincing argument for print simulation imo.

    If you seldom use relative rendering intent because you find you dark color are crushed, that might be the reason.

    The user should have the choice to enable or disable it.

    Interesting read. https://www.imatest.com/support/docs/23-1/black-point-compensation/

     

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  • Walter Rowe
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    BeO

    The Color tab of Preferences provides rendering intent. It does not have black point compensation or white paper simulation.

    Perhaps adding rendering intent, BPC, and white paper simulation to export recipes might be a way to provide that. You could create an export recipe for each configuration. View > Proof Profile could be set to "Selected Recipe".

    Even more thoroughly imagine if Capture One let you assign a recipe to a specific variant so that you always know that variant is being edited according to a specific output target?

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Walter Rowe

    Perhaps adding rendering intent, BPC, and white paper simulation to export recipes might be a way to provide that. You could create an export recipe for each configuration. View > Proof Profile could be set to "Selected Recipe".

    Perfect solution if you ask me.

    In the preferences the settings could stay for the case that you are not softproofing (ie. View>Proof profle> No proof profile) so that is still possible.

     

    Even more thoroughly imagine if Capture One let you assign a recipe to a specific variant so that you always know that variant is being edited according to a specific output target?

    That could be useful, sometimes. What that also would allow is to first edit your variants for web and print until all are finished and then output them altogether with its respective recipe set in the variant.

    It would not be without possibile issues though, i.e. if you change the export recipe definition later (or delete it), the variants would still link to the now updated recipe (or be empty). This might be welcome for some use cases, but not for others. But if you store the recipe settings as-of they had been set when last exporting the variant, this makes things even more complex and also not fit or all use cases.

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  • Peter Schuster

    Hi BeO and Walter Rowe

    thank you for clearing up the situation.
    I apologise for causing such a mess here, I promise to do better.

    I'm signing off here and will look deeper into the subject of soft proofing with C1 as it is today.

    All the best,
    Peter

     

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Hi Peter Schuster

    Consider rephrasing you request or creating a new one once you are deeper in the subject.

    Same to you
    BeO

     

     

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  • Peter Uhlemann

    Hi Peter Schuster, please post your findings. I am interested as well since I am also using Saal Digital print service.

    Thanks

    Peter

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