version 8 and still no full wacom support ?
beside all the performance problems with the paint tools. i´m curious to know when will we see full wacom support with c1 ? the new tools are great but i hate to work like in the nineties....
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Isn't it Wacom's obligation to configure its devices to work with Capture One, rather than vice versa?
I don't see how this can be Phase One's responsibility - some/many/most of us don't use Wacom tools, so I don't see argument here that resources should be expended by Phase One to facilitate whatever arbitrary hardware solution any given user chooses to use.
Besides - there's already support for Wacom pens, and saying that there's still a lack of "full" support is unhelpful. What does that even mean?
And have you raised a support case, if it's that important to you?0 -
[quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:
Isn't it Wacom's obligation to configure its devices to work with Capture One, rather than vice versa?
I don't see how this can be Phase One's responsibility - some/many/most of us don't use Wacom tools, so I don't see argument here that resources should be expended by Phase One to facilitate whatever arbitrary hardware solution any given user chooses to use.
Besides - there's already generic support for Wacom pens, and saying that there's still a lack of "full" support is unhelpful. What does that even mean?
And have you raised a support case, if it's that important to you?
While agree that it's not CO problem to fix Wacom. I think it's prett impossible to use the program without a tablet. How do you manage?0 -
I do use the Wacom tablet( I have sold my mouse), which function are you missing? 0 -
[quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:
Isn't it Wacom's obligation to configure its devices to work with Capture One, rather than vice versa?
I don't see how this can be Phase One's responsibility - some/many/most of us don't use Wacom tools, so I don't see argument here that resources should be expended by Phase One to facilitate whatever arbitrary hardware solution any given user chooses to use.
Besides - there's already support for Wacom pens, and saying that there's still a lack of "full" support is unhelpful. What does that even mean?
And have you raised a support case, if it's that important to you?
why should this be wacom's obligation ? a wacom tablet is only a sophisticated input device, only phase one can make it work to unleash its full potential ! using a wacom tablet only to change brush size and ignor the best feature (pressure sensitivity to control density) is ridiculous.0 -
[quote="Horseoncowboy " wrote:
beside all the performance problems with the paint tools. i´m curious to know when will we see full wacom support with c1 ? the new tools are great but i hate to work like in the nineties....
Skipping the discussion on obligations, the OP's quest for Wacom support would be much more interesting if he could make the effort to describe what is missing. In other words, define "full support". Please also add the type of Wacom you are using.
I know from first hand that Wacom support is worked on intensely in CO8, so a possible lack of interest from Phase One's part can be eradicated.
Last but not least, you could contact Phase One Support for a response.0 -
[quote="Paul_Steunebrink" wrote:
In other words, define "full support". Please also add the type of Wacom you are using.
I know from first hand that Wacom support is worked on intensely in CO8, so a possible lack of interest from Phase One's part can be eradicated.
every used a wacom tablet with photoshop for example ? the real and best reason to use a wacom is its ability to control transfer with pressure ! it does not matter what typ of wacom you are using. this is the key feature and it still is not supported in c1 ! also nothing changed from 7 to 8 regarding wacom support !0 -
Horseoncowboy was quicker than me. If you've ever drawn with a real graphic pen you know that controlling opacity is much more essential, and the size of pen or brush rarely varies much and can be easily controlled.
In case of masks controlling opacity is much more useful than controlling size. If you don't fully support pressure sensitivity it makes tablet pretty much useless except for contouring. Also in CO1 you have no idea how much size actually varies which makes it even worse.0 -
[quote="roske" wrote:
Also in CO1 you have no idea how much size actually varies which makes it even worse.
how true !0 -
So what must we users do to get this fuller tablet support in some upcoming release? 0 -
Support-cases and feature requests are handled by our Support dept. You can contact them here: http://www.phaseone.com/SupportMain.aspx 0 -
christian, with all respect i can not believe that your development team is not aware what is missing in
wacom support. further it does your great improvements in version 8 no justice when you have to
work with brushes and layers like in the digital imaging stone-age.0 -
[quote="Horseoncowboy " wrote:
christian, with all respect i can not believe that your development team is not aware what is missing in
wacom support. further it does your great improvements in version 8 no justice when you have to
work with brushes and layers like in the digital imaging stone-age.
We, Phase One, of all, know the limitations of Capture One very well indeed. However, we also have limited resources, and so the resources we do have, are spent on things the users request. How do we know what the users request? We track them through Support system (along with other channels), but the Support dept being the main gate). And that is why you should write our Support department.0 -
[quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
[quote="Horseoncowboy " wrote:
christian, with all respect i can not believe that your development team is not aware what is missing in
wacom support. further it does your great improvements in version 8 no justice when you have to
work with brushes and layers like in the digital imaging stone-age.
We, Phase One, of all, know the limitations of Capture One very well indeed. However, we also have limited resources, and so the resources we do have, are spent on things the users request. How do we know what the users request? We track them through Support system (along with other channels), but the Support dept being the main gate). And that is why you should write our Support department.
Hi Christian!
I really don't want to take away from your advise (request) to use the support system. I completely understand and agree with you that it's a great way to keep track of issues/bugs/requests/etc.
I'd just like you to possibly think about the benefits of having an open forum to discuss these issues/requests. I believe it allows for a more transparent dialog. I like the way some support systems work where feature requests are allowed to be seen and 'voted' by others. This allows you to be able to hear a larger voice on areas the community feels strongly about and it also allows you to offer feedback on that particular request and it'll update anyone who voted for it.
The only reason I mention this is because of the heightened animosity I've been noticing on these forums as of late. I'm sure they ebb and flow every time a new major release comes out but it never hurts to offer suggestions, the worst that'll happen is they'll fall on deaf ears!
Thanks for a creating a product I use every day.0 -
[quote="photoGrant" wrote:
I'd just like you to possibly think about the benefits of having an open forum to discuss these issues/requests. I believe it allows for a more transparent dialog.
Great suggestion but we simply lack the resources for such a system.
We're no Adobe and unfortunately need our customers to work within our limitations and the communication channels in place.
Sorry but it simply comes down the resources and what we have in place to accommodate customers is what needs to be used at this time.0 -
[quote="Drew" wrote:
[quote="photoGrant" wrote:
I'd just like you to possibly think about the benefits of having an open forum to discuss these issues/requests. I believe it allows for a more transparent dialog.
Great suggestion but we simply lack the resources for such a system.
We're no Adobe and unfortunately need our customers to work within our limitations and the communication channels in place.
Sorry but it simply comes down the resources and what we have in place to accommodate customers is what needs to be used at this time.
You don't have to have the size and staff of Adobe to pull this off. See Spotify: http://community.spotify.com/t5/ideas/v ... ost-kudoed
It might not work with your current resources, but it's something to keep in mind for the future...0 -
I honestly believe that transparency would be helpful for both users and development team. If you don't have resources yourself we (users) can organise a system like Trello to gather user stories and vote them so everyone could have a good view on priorities.
See the example here: https://trello.com/b/LCDud1Nd/brackets
Update: Just after reading Drew's response on Yosemite thread, I believe this kind of system could prove to be even more important as most conflict situations arise from a lack of proper communication or just late response. This kind of system could address issues before they happen in the first place.
Regards,
Marko0 -
[quote="roske" wrote:
I honestly believe that transparency would be helpful for both users and development team. If you don't have resources yourself we (users) can organise a system like Trello to gather user stories and vote them so everyone could have a good view on priorities.
See the example here: https://trello.com/b/LCDud1Nd/brackets
Regards,
Marko
I would be more than happy to help set up and grow a community based system, though I'm sure more fragmentation for the development team is actually a bad thing, so this seems like it's either an all or nothing scenario and sadly we're in the nothing category for now.0 -
It's not hard to set it up but maintaining it could be. I'm thinking even though the development might not officially use it (even thought I think we all should use a modern communications systems such as Trello, Slack or some other) we users could use it to sort out what features are really important and critical to us. Management and development can then perhaps get a more objective overview on users wishes. After all the customer is always right 😉
Problem with this is that this would also lack a feedback in our direction which is the whole point of communication.0 -
[quote="roske" wrote:
Problem with this is that this would also lack a feedback in our direction which is the whole point of communication.
Exactly...
If there's bugs, and feature requests and feedback being submitted to the current ticketing setup, I don't see how adding another way of collating all this feedback would actually benefit anyone. The only way in which it would be a good integration would be if it replaced their current setup and became an integral resource for the staff and more importantly the users.
I know it would sure help eradicate a large chunk of similar threads being posted regarding key issues. Camera support, operating system support, etc.
I think the beauty of an open feedback system is the ability to truly concentrate on features that are highly requested from everyone and better yet, allows us a one-stop location to understand why features aren't able to be implemented, or why it's low on the priority list. Further it allows multiple users to chime in on the same bug and (and I've seen this happen) with the community working together we're actually able to sometimes solve the bug.
Most importantly it would allow us to put our system specifications in our profiles so you would be able to troubleshoot a topic without having to wait on the end-user to get back to you with what their specs are...
Anyway, all food for thought.0 -
[quote="photoGrant" wrote:
It might not work with your current resources, but it's something to keep in mind for the future...[quote="photoGrant" wrote:
Anyway, all food for thought.
Again, I want to stress that is a GREAT IDEA and something we have discussed. It may change in the future and I hope it does but for now, we cannot offer such a communication structure and kindly ask that the channels currently in place are used to help us help you.0 -
[quote="Drew" wrote:
[quote="photoGrant" wrote:
It might not work with your current resources, but it's something to keep in mind for the future...[quote="photoGrant" wrote:
Anyway, all food for thought.
Again, I want to stress that is a GREAT IDEA and something we have discussed. It may change in the future and I hope it does but for now, we cannot offer such a communication structure and kindly ask that the channels currently in place are used to help us help you.
Thanks for the feedback, Drew!0 -
Coming from Lightroom I was amazed to see that C17 didn't have support for Wacom's pen sensitivity where it's needed - opacity. I mentioned it to David Grover on one of the Phase blogs and he agreed it would be useful. I was surprised to see C18 hadn't seen this implemented. 0 -
[quote="chipbutty" wrote:
Coming from Lightroom I was amazed to see that C17 didn't have support for Wacom's pen sensitivity where it's needed - opacity. I mentioned it to David Grover on one of the Phase blogs and he agreed it would be useful. I was surprised to see C18 hadn't seen this implemented.
You're talking about 2 different softwares. C1 is meant to Capture and process with the best quality and speed possible.
I'm using C1 for more than 10 years with the top end photographers (and a wacom) and I never needed the pen sensitivity.
Pen sensitivity means that you're "retouching" the RAW file ? Using C1 for that ? There's a lot more than pen sensitivity to be done to make that possible.
And again this is just my opinion.0 -
One of the key features/advantages of CO1 are masks and adjustments on them, how is that pressure sensitivity is not the key feature when drawing masks? 0 -
[quote="roske" wrote:
One of the key features/advantages of CO1 are masks and adjustments on them, how is that pressure sensitivity is not the key feature when drawing masks?
Well I disagree, to me the advantage of C1 is its ability to shoot fast and process fast with a high image quality.
Masks and adjustments are good to rapidly show the client what you can do in post, but unless you include all of Photoshop's features in terms of fluidity and precision (and I seriously don't think it's ever going to happen soon) you should use a retouching software.0 -
[quote="olivier9" wrote:
[ Masks and adjustments are good to rapidly show the client what you can do in post, but unless you include all of Photoshop's features in terms of fluidity and precision (and I seriously don't think it's ever going to happen soon) you should use a retouching software.
well this is plain nonsense. i prefer do to certain local adjustments with c1 tools rather than later with a tiff in ps. pressure sensitivity is all what it is needed to work fast.0 -
As CO says they already do pressure sensitivity for size, giving us the ability to switch between size and opacity would be nice. If you would like this as CO people say put in a Support Case.
But, Like the guy before, I do little with layers, and 99.99999% of the time my opacity is at 100%, and just adjust the sliders and what not. If I need multiple areas at different intensities, I just create a new layer. If I want to do fine grain things then yes off to PS.
Robert0 -
[quote="olivier9" wrote:
[quote="roske" wrote:
One of the key features/advantages of CO1 are masks and adjustments on them, how is that pressure sensitivity is not the key feature when drawing masks?
Well I disagree, to me the advantage of C1 is its ability to shoot fast and process fast with a high image quality.
Masks and adjustments are good to rapidly show the client what you can do in post, but unless you include all of Photoshop's features in terms of fluidity and precision (and I seriously don't think it's ever going to happen soon) you should use a retouching software.
CO1 does not live in isolated world where only select few with a small feature set is using it, it really competes with the industry best software out there. It already provides many of the features competition does not, and it lacks a couple that would make it a killer software. Though quality/features are not only things it takes to become an industry leader... and personally I wouldn't care about the status/share 😊
Anyhow if you have a certain use case and your specific flow and needs, you can't possibly know how others will be using the same software and which exact features. I can't see the scenario in which full tablet support wouldn't be beneficial, and I'm not talking about making a Painter but have the finer control over the size and opacity of the brush.
And as the final thought... if I can finish my job in one software with ease and good results, why wouldn't I?0 -
[quote="roske" wrote:
And as the final thought... if I can finish my job in one software with ease and good results, why wouldn't I?
That's the wrong question.
The right one is:
"if I'm using a piece software which is openly and self-evidently not intended to be a "one-stop" solution, what possible basis is there for expecting it to work effectively as one anyway?"0 -
[quote="Keith Reeder" wrote:
[quote="roske" wrote:
And as the final thought... if I can finish my job in one software with ease and good results, why wouldn't I?
That's the wrong question.
The right one is:
"if I'm using a piece software which is openly and self-evidently not intended to be a "one-stop" solution, what possible basis is there for expecting it to work effectively as one anyway?"
Allow me to disagree... we are discussing what is advertised from C1 as a Wacom tablet support and yet it supports it as much as it supports a plain old mouse with variation in size that is hard to manipulate.
I never said that C1 should be a beginning and an end of the workflow, but for many applications it can be.
Also no one, C1, you or me cannot or should not say how software can or cannot be used. Users will decide on that and will eventually drive the development or the software will eventually fade away like many did before.
Take Photoshop as a nice example for that... in my 15 year long design career I have used it for photos just a couple of years. It's the same software I've been staring at but it was like it's a completely different software for photography.
And just for the sake of argument... please take a look at this retouching video with C1 Pro 8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwqiuzg84uk Don't you think that more control over brushes wouldn't be helpful?0
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