... keeps me using Lightroom
I'm an original Aperture user and switched the Lightroom only after Apple discontinues Aperture's development. I'm still sad about that because I have never really liked Lightroom - but it's hard to argue that it doesn't work well. And I've felt stuck there mostly because of Lightroom's DAM features.
C1 has better RAW conversions and adjustments, to my eye. But it's DAM features (specifically the catalog) seem spliced on and woefully lacking in features I have come to depend on. I use the catalog and store my images within it (remember, I'm a convert from Aperture) as opposed to making them referenced.
Just for the value in other's opinions and work-arounds, here's my list of features in Lightroom that keep me from switching to C1:
C1 has better RAW conversions and adjustments, to my eye. But it's DAM features (specifically the catalog) seem spliced on and woefully lacking in features I have come to depend on. I use the catalog and store my images within it (remember, I'm a convert from Aperture) as opposed to making them referenced.
Just for the value in other's opinions and work-arounds, here's my list of features in Lightroom that keep me from switching to C1:
- Can’t move images between albums. You have to copy and then delete.
- Deleting an image from the catalog and the drive is something that I struggle to do every time I need to do it. I can't delete from an album (my primary organizational device)
- No print presets for printer, paper and image size.
- Stacks are only for variants of the same image; you can't stack arbitrary images. I use this all the time to group images that are going to be a panorama, or a series of portrait images that are very similar.
- Can’t collapse stacks in a filtered view - what if I want to filter out my rejects (before deleting them), but still collapse stacks?
- Can’t edit a keyword name and have it propagate to all images using that keyword.
- Can’t edit the name of color tags - I might want a green to mean 'ready for printing.'
- No sync to a mobile app. Lightroom has an iOS app and even ON1 Photo RAW has one (Photo Via).
0
-
Bob, I would say you should learn C1 better 80% of what you want is available. There might be a couple of things that are not present in C1. But I am not sure the point of your post. Don't like? don't use it. 😄 pretty simple 0 -
[quote="alececco" wrote:
Bob, I would say you should learn C1 better 80% of what you want is available.
I'd love to find out how to do the 80%. Which are they and can you help by pointing me towards the material I need to read?
I would like to use C1, because I don't much like Lightroom, except that it will do the job.0 -
[quote="BobRockefeller" wrote:
I'm an original Aperture user and switched the Lightroom only after Apple discontinues Aperture's development. I'm still sad about that because I have never really liked Lightroom - but it's hard to argue that it doesn't work well. And I've felt stuck there mostly because of Lightroom's DAM features.
C1 has better RAW conversions and adjustments, to my eye. But it's DAM features (specifically the catalog) seem spliced on and woefully lacking in features I have come to depend on. I use the catalog and store my images within it (remember, I'm a convert from Aperture) as opposed to making them referenced.
AgreedJust for the value in other's opinions and work-arounds, here's my list of features in Lightroom that keep me from switching to C1:
I see some of these as fundamental, others could be addressed or partially addressed with a work around- Can’t move images between albums. You have to copy and then delete.
If you select images in Album 1 and drag them to album 2, they are copied to album 2, but the selection is still highlighted in Album 1. Simply right click and select delete from the first album.- Deleting an image from the catalog and the drive is something that I struggle to do every time I need to do it. I can't delete from an album (my primary organizational device)
If you include at least one project in your tree of folder collections, you can move to the Project in your folder tree, select the image there, and that gives the option of deleting from the catalog.
One could write an Applescript to select the same images in the All Images collection as are selected in an Album, then the selected images can be deleted from the catalog- No print presets for printer, paper and image size.
Fundamental- Stacks are only for variants of the same image; you can't stack arbitrary images. I use this all the time to group images that are going to be a panorama, or a series of portrait images that are very similar.
- Can’t collapse stacks in a filtered view - what if I want to filter out my rejects (before deleting them), but still collapse stacks?
Fundamental - I see that a better stacking feature is available for PhaseOne image files, one hopes they decide to make it available for other types of image files
I am considering an Applescript to move selected images in an album to a new album created below that Album. Effectively Manual Stacking
I converted my stacks in Aperture to Albums before importing to C1, used a color code to indicate the selected variants/images- Can’t edit a keyword name and have it propagate to all images using that keyword.
If the keyword is a "Catalog Keyword" this works.- Can’t edit the name of color tags - I might want a green to mean 'ready for printing.'
Fundamental - but a written note works.- No sync to a mobile app. Lightroom has an iOS app and even ON1 Photo RAW has one (Photo Via).
What about Capture Pilot?
I am wondering about exporting images in the Select folder to Apple Photos.
Some more items- It's nearly impossible to find all the images with missing files in a large catalog. - I posted an Applescript that does this
- It's extremely difficult to identify images which are not in a user collection - Could be done with an Applescript, but currently blocked by an Applescript bug
- It's extremely difficult to find all the images which are blocked from editing
0 -
I work around the tag label issue simply with a keyword. Frankly, I don't care how the tags are labeled, but a keyword is very explanatory. For example, today I might want red=Really Important; green = client shot; yellow = private image. But down the road, I might want red = reject; green = keeper; yellow = undecided. If I change the labels, than previous label defs and uses are lost. Whereas using keywords, I just assign appropriate keywords and historical "tags" are retained. In fact, I use keywords to help me remember which images I printed, which I edited further in external programs, and so on.
I'm pretty frustrated with C1's DAM, though, and now no longer recommend C1 to potential new users who care about DAM. I just hope that Phase One makes HUGE strides in v10. We paid for "performance improvements" and better DAM with v10 and, while I'm pleased with 10's processing results, I find performance to be poorer and DAM only marginally better than in v9. What I don't understand is why performance on my systems seemed to worsen significantly between the last couple of betas and the final release (through the current release).0 -
Eric,
Thanks for your help and ideas. I'll try some of those workarounds to ease the pain.
If there were a Show In All Images Collection command, it would make it a bit easier to delete. What I do now is to mark the image with a red color tag, go to the All Images collection, and filter it for red tags. Then I can select and delete.
And I didn't know about Capture Pilot 0 I'll need to try that!0 -
[quote="Nature Isme" wrote:
I work around the tag label issue simply with a keyword. Frankly, I don't care how the tags are labeled, but a keyword is very explanatory. For example, today I might want red=Really Important; green = client shot; yellow = private image. But down the road, I might want red = reject; green = keeper; yellow = undecided. If I change the labels, than previous label defs and uses are lost.
That is a good point.
But I do like the color tags as I can easily see them in Browse.0 -
[quote="BobRockefeller" wrote:
Eric,
Thanks for your help and ideas. I'll try some of those workarounds to ease the pain.
If there were a Show In All Images Collection command, it would make it a bit easier to delete.
Actually there is. "Show in Library"What I do now is to mark the image with a red color tag, go to the All Images collection, and filter it for red tags. Then I can select and delete.
And I didn't know about Capture Pilot 0 I'll need to try that!
I have discovered more information and a work around on the "get every image" bug in the Applescript interface.
In a large catalog, if you execute the following AppleScript, the Mac will hang after a few minutes as the amount of memory used by COP heads towards inifinity. When the amount of swap memory hits 50GB, my iMac hangs.tell application "Capture One 10
tell document 1
tell collection 1
get every image
end tell
end tell
end tell
I just found that executing "count of every image" and "count of every variant" is safe in All Images a large catalog.
I also found that by executing "get images 1 through 300" that the amount of RAM required by COP per image (or variant) is about the same size as the size of my typical image file (12MB)
I think that explains what is happening, COP is loading the image file or a preview when a "get images" or "get variants" command is sent. 🙄
For my catalog of 15000 images I would need 180GB of RAM and swap memory. 🤓
The command "Get rating of variants 1 thru 300" seems to demand a similar amount of RAM.
So this opens some doors. I can now write safe Applescript code to find the number of variants in a catalog, and Applescript to step through the variants or images.0 -
[quote="Eric Nepean" wrote:
[quote="BobRockefeller" wrote:
Eric,
Thanks for your help and ideas. I'll try some of those workarounds to ease the pain.
If there were a Show In All Images Collection command, it would make it a bit easier to delete.
Actually there is. "Show in Library"
That seems only to work if you select an image in a collection and that image is referenced. If the image is in the catalog (managed), the command is not available.0 -
Depends what your priorities are, me I want great RAW processing. I don't really use it for cataloguing. I want to move finished projects off local storage into the cloud. 0 -
And now... Crashing. I have a ticket in for a consistent crash when creating a portrait oriented crop in a portrait oriented OM-D E-M1 Mark II image.
Other crop orientations and landscape oriented images are fine.
Go figure...0 -
Instead of opening another thread I have a related itch...
My situation is the following. Let's say you have two ordinary Albums, one for selects and one for keeping track about published photos. Idea is to move items to later once they are published. This seems to work fine until you have a variant!?
It is totally possible to delete the original in any particular album, but if you delete a variant it vanishes everywhere in the library.
How does that make sense??? Is there a way to overcome this?
Regards,
Marko0 -
My satisfaction with C1 has increased greatly with the release of v10.1. The mysterious portrait orientation crop hang/crash has resolved itself, somehow. And the speed of ordinary catalog operations, such as selecting multiple thumbnails in grid view, has improved a lot.
I'm now on the road to convert from Lightroom to C1...0 -
Not sure if that has been mentioned and not sure if this was something recently updated. However.....
Can’t edit a keyword name and have it propagate to all images using that keyword.
You can do this. Go to your Keyword Library, find the keyword you want to change. Right click to rename or delete and it will update or remove from all images with that keyword.
Congrats on the move. I am still in the early throws of converting. Its not an easy switch. I wish C1 would adopt some LR behaviors but working it out.
Happy Editing!
Troy0 -
[quote="Jonzinator" wrote:
Not sure if that has been mentioned and not sure if this was something recently updated. However.....
Can’t edit a keyword name and have it propagate to all images using that keyword.
You can do this. Go to your Keyword Library, find the keyword you want to change. Right click to rename or delete and it will update or remove from all images with that keyword.
I have a support case in for this. You are correct that this does work, but only if the keyword is part of the Catalog Keyword set. I have my own keyword set and it doesn't work for that, but is acknowledged as a bug.0 -
[quote="BobRockefeller" wrote:
[quote="Jonzinator" wrote:
Not sure if that has been mentioned and not sure if this was something recently updated. However.....
Can’t edit a keyword name and have it propagate to all images using that keyword.
You can do this. Go to your Keyword Library, find the keyword you want to change. Right click to rename or delete and it will update or remove from all images with that keyword.
I have a support case in for this. You are correct that this does work, but only if the keyword is part of the Catalog Keyword set. I have my own keyword set and it doesn't work for that, but is acknowledged as a bug.
I'm curious, why do you not make your keyword set the Catalog Keyword set?0 -
[quote="Eric Nepean" wrote:
[quote="BobRockefeller" wrote:
[quote="Jonzinator" wrote:
Not sure if that has been mentioned and not sure if this was something recently updated. However.....
Can’t edit a keyword name and have it propagate to all images using that keyword.
You can do this. Go to your Keyword Library, find the keyword you want to change. Right click to rename or delete and it will update or remove from all images with that keyword.
I have a support case in for this. You are correct that this does work, but only if the keyword is part of the Catalog Keyword set. I have my own keyword set and it doesn't work for that, but is acknowledged as a bug.
I'm curious, why do you not make your keyword set the Catalog Keyword set?
I got horribly tangled up with the way Lightroom keywords were being recognized by C1 and so "had to" set up a parallel keyword arrangement.
When an image was added to the catalog that had Lightroom keywords in its sidecar file, those keywords would be added to the Catalog Keyword set, but their hierarchy was not recognized. They all came "flat."0 -
Yes, Bob. And moreover, it is not possible to delete in C1 keywords imported from Lightroom. You can do it when your session is opened, but as soon as you close C1 and reopen it, the old Lightroom keywords reappear. In such a way that I have some keywords in C1 which are not assigned to any picture.....
BTW, I realize that I didn't try with version 10. It didn't work with v9.0 -
Ahhh.....good to know. I am in the process of revamping all my keywords so I have not had that situation yet. I think I will hold off for a bit to see what results to get.
Thanks for the info.
Troy0 -
[quote="tenmangu81" wrote:
Yes, Bob. And moreover, it is not possible to delete in C1 keywords imported from Lightroom. You can do it when your session is opened, but as soon as you close C1 and reopen it, the old Lightroom keywords reappear. In such a way that I have some keywords in C1 which are not assigned to any picture.....
BTW, I realize that I didn't try with version 10. It didn't work with v9.
I think that you can make that stop by setting Preferences > Image > Auto Sync Sidecar XMP to 'none.'0 -
Thanks Bob, but it has been set to 'None' from the beginning, as I my 'native' RAW are DNG. I didn't import any xmp from Lightroom. 0 -
[quote="tenmangu81" wrote:
Yes, Bob. And moreover, it is not possible to delete in C1 keywords imported from Lightroom. You can do it when your session is opened, but as soon as you close C1 and reopen it, the old Lightroom keywords reappear. In such a way that I have some keywords in C1 which are not assigned to any picture.....
BTW, I realize that I didn't try with version 10. It didn't work with v9.
This bug was fixed in v10.0 -
[quote="tenmangu81" wrote:
Thanks Bob, but it has been set to 'None' from the beginning, as I my 'native' RAW are DNG. I didn't import any xmp from Lightroom.
If they're DNG files, perhaps those keywords are in the DNG file itself and re-syncing? Do you think Preferences > Images> Prefer Sidecar XMP over Embedded Metadata might help?0 -
[quote="John Doe" wrote:
[quote="tenmangu81" wrote:
Yes, Bob. And moreover, it is not possible to delete in C1 keywords imported from Lightroom. You can do it when your session is opened, but as soon as you close C1 and reopen it, the old Lightroom keywords reappear. In such a way that I have some keywords in C1 which are not assigned to any picture.....
BTW, I realize that I didn't try with version 10. It didn't work with v9.
This bug was fixed in v10.
Good news !! I will try.0 -
[quote="BobRockefeller" wrote:
[quote="tenmangu81" wrote:
Thanks Bob, but it has been set to 'None' from the beginning, as I my 'native' RAW are DNG. I didn't import any xmp from Lightroom.
If they're DNG files, perhaps those keywords are in the DNG file itself and re-syncing? Do you think Preferences > Images> Prefer Sidecar XMP over Embedded Metadata might help?
Bob, I have tried all the options but it didn't help.
If the bug has been fixed with v10, it's perfect. I must have a try.0 -
[quote="John Doe" wrote:
This bug was fixed in v10.
Sadly, I still have the problem with v10.1. I deleted all my catalog keywords, leaving my own set, quit C1, restarted C1 and all the catalog keywords were back. ☹️0 -
Bob,
Did the LR keywords get stored in a default "global" library - the type that always remains available for use (but not necessarily deployed for the images selected) when you ran the catalogue conversion and imported?
Have you tried removing the Keyword library entirely from its storage place (perhaps temporarily?) to see what happens?
Mac: ~/library/application support/capture one/keywords
I assume that any imported keyword libraries are stored there and any directly applied keywords for an image as simply saved with the image edit data.
Certainly using Windows and sessions that seems to be the case.
When the library and the formerly deleted keywords reappear are they also associated with the images in the catalogue as before or has the removal of the keyword association with the image been successful?
Grant0 -
[quote="SFA" wrote:
Did the LR keywords get stored in a default "global" library - the type that always remains available for use (but not necessarily deployed for the images selected) when you ran the catalogue conversion and imported?
The LR keywords showed in the Catalog Keywords, before I deleted them all. Are you suggesting there's a higher level keyword group above the catalog? I'm not familiar with that.[quote="SFA" wrote:
Have you tried removing the Keyword library entirely from its storage place (perhaps temporarily?) to see what happens?
Mac: ~/library/application support/capture one/keywords
The only keywords stored there seem to be `My Keywords.cokeywordsdb` so there's nothing to delete.[quote="SFA" wrote:
When the library and the formerly deleted keywords reappear are they also associated with the images in the catalogue as before or has the removal of the keyword association with the image been successful?
The returning keywords are not associated with any images. And, in the process of all this messing with keywords, now none of my keywords, in either Catalog Keywords nor My Keywords, are associated with an images. No images have keywords anymore. ☹️
It's almost enough to make me give up on keywords completely - and I have struggled to gain the keyword discipline I have been able to demonstrate.
I have a keyword mess, but at least I have My Keywords, which I created manually one keyword at a time and in the right hierarchy.0 -
So you had some LR imported Keywords in a library (which was not "MyKeywords") which you disassociated with all images and deleted from the library (which now appears not to exist at all) but they reappeared anyway?
That is truly odd. Hidden file? (A very long shot .....)
As I recall the Keyword Library in the location mentioned previously are considered to be "Globally" available to all Catalogues, Sessions, etc. for optional use.
I may be wrong about that but that was the impression I got and it would make sense - more especially for anyone using sessions but also for those preferring to work with small catalogues.
Sorry to hear about your further woes with keywords.
I have often felt that they are the sort of things it's best to pay someone else to do so you can shout at them and refuse to pay them when things go wrong or the KWs chosen don't really apply - as is so often the case.
Grant0 -
Hi Bob
Keywords were stored in the Capture One plist files
It may be that the catalog keywords you are deleting are not being deleted from the plist file.
You can find where your keywords are being stored by executing one of the following Unix commands in Terminal
with the string mykeyword replaced with a keyword you would like to search for, like wildlife
This command lists all the files with capture in the filename and containing your search string mykeyword
find -x ~/Library -type f -iname "*capture*" -exec fgrep -i 'mykeyword' {} \;
find -x ~ -type f -iname "*capture*" -exec fgrep -i 'mykeyword' {} \;
find -x / -type f -iname "*capture*" -exec fgrep -i 'mykeyword' {} \;
find -x /Volumes -type f -iname "*capture*" -exec fgrep -i 'mykeyword' {} \;
The second one searches your entire user folder tree
The third one searches the entire main drive.
The fourth one will search every attached and accessible drive.
If you would like to see the actual content containing your keyword then then execute this Unix command
find -x ~/Library -type f -iname "*capture*" -exec fgrep -i -a 'mykeyword' {} \;
Alternatively, if you want to search just of just one file for your keyword then copy the following into terminal
fgrep -i -a 'mykeyword' "Path_And_File_Name"
If in fact the sticky keywords are in a .plist file, perhaps deleting the plist file may fix the problem.0 -
[quote="John Doe" wrote:
This bug was fixed in v10.
Nope. It doesn't work : the keywords deleted yesterday have reappeared when I opened C1 this morning....0
Post is closed for comments.
Comments
37 comments