[WIndows 10 2004] C1 13.1.3.13 introduces new bugs in windows management

Comments

35 comments

  • Ralf Crumbach

    I'm not sure what you expect from other users in a user-to-user forum.

    Did that work with earlier versions like you want?

     

    Best way to report an issue to CO would be:

    https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/requests/new 

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  • Samoreen

    Request already sent, that's not the problem.

    > I'm not sure what you expect from other users in a user-to-user forum.

    Maybe to know, among other things, whether other users have similar problems ?

     

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  • gb

    Is there much advantage working in full screen mode?
    The viewer windows gains no extra space (except for task bar showing/not showing) by going from a maximized window to full screen mode.

    With the browser window you could just F11 between full screen and maximized window to get the window control icons back.

    Agree that there is no separate minimization of the viewer window available.
    The browser windows controls both the minimization (hiding) of itself and the viewer simultaneously.

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  • Samoreen

    > Is there much advantage working in full screen mode?

    That's the user decision. However, if this option is made available, it should work correctly. Is there any good reason to remove the minimize or "normal state" icon while full screen mode is active ?

    > The browser windows controls both the minimization (hiding) of itself and the viewer simultaneously.

    Not when they are both in full screen mode. If I need to minimize everything, I have to first switch back to non full screen mode. When restoring the C1 windows, I'll have to re-enable full screen mode.

    Not a major issue, OK. But why make things complicated when it's not necessary ? As I mentioned above, the development team seems to have a problem with the Windows version. They obviously do not master this OS as well as the Mac OS.

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  • Samoreen

    I just received an answer from the Zendesk robot that demonstrates that my original request had not been even read.

    OK. No need to continue this discussion. I give up with C1. Too many problems with the Windows version, too many long lasting bugs that were never fixed, terrible customer support (especially since the ZenDesk thing appeared)... Given the software quality and reliability and the bad service, this product is overpriced.

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  • OddS.

    > Samoreen: No need to continue this discussion. I give up with C1.

    That's where I was late 2019 and even late 2018 when I decided to hang in and upgrade. My background  dictates that I judge support and direction/speed of development to be more important than current position. I am closer to leaving C1 than ever before. The strong points of C1 are tethering and raw file development. My tests tell me I can do equally well with other applications. I don't use C1 catalog nor C1 print and definitely not C1 metadata. Support, direction and speed of development all come out too short, in my opinion. The Zen was a prominent move in the wrong direction. I do however; want to see what is in the coming upgrade before I decide on upgrade or leave. It was a close call in favor of C1 in 2018 and 2019.

    Strangely, I do not use a Mac and can't tell if C1 looks better from that point of view.

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  • Ernst Weinzettl

    What a mess. It's incredible to see how difficult it is for the development team to master the Windows version. One can wonder how this is tested.

    I got some answers on support tickets "I cannot see your problem." When I asked back "Did you test on Windows 10?" I got back "I don't even have a Windows PC that I can use, so I have no possibility to check on Windows."

    No more words needed.

     

    Kind regards
    Ernst Weinzettl

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  • Samoreen

    > No more words needed.

    Yes, now they seem to be even worse as the Adobe support. Since the acquisition of Phase One by Axcel, I'm wondering whether they even care about the C1 customers who are not also hardware customers. All has been done to discourage them.

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  • Ernst Weinzettl

    I don't see the sense, but you seem to be right.

    The last two year I needed to migrate my stock of images to C1. But since V20 arrived every update added more issues for Windows User.

    And I see no way to change plattform one more time with reasonable costs and effort.

    Kind regards
    Ernst

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  • FirstName LastName

    Now I'm struggling with the issue of the GPU usage. It appears that new CO 13 and new Window 10 ver. 2004 build 19041 force the use of the internal Intel GPU instead of NVIDIA GPU and this is causing a drop in the performance.

    Please fix this issue.... thanks.

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  • Charles O'Hara

    Unfortunately, and it's sad, a Capture One Windows version ridden with bugs is still way better than the competition (mainly Lightroom), IMO. Multiple window management has been broken for years (terrible multi DPI settings support, fixed possibilities about second window layout (except for floating tools), etc., but it still kinda just works anyway, so I can continue working with it despite the fact that it's not perfect. I'm still waiting for a floating browser grid.

    As for Capture One v13 using the onboard GPU first when doing hardware calculations, I had this problem too with Windows 2004; I reported the issue in a support ticket months ago but I got the ususal response of "it may or may not be fixed eventually" and the bug is still there, patch after patch. What I ended up doing is simply disabling my onboard GPU (which was redundant anyway, compared to my much more powerful Nvidia card) in the Device Manager and upon restarting Capture One it now uses the dedicated GPU as it should.

    Dual GPU setups like this are more common than uncommon nowadays I guess, with pretty much all high end CPUs featuring some sort of onboard graphics co-processor. The fact that this very severe and potentially very common bug has not been fixed speaks volumes about how much the development team cares about the Windows users, I guess. No, not all professionals use Mac systems.

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  • FirstName LastName

    Dear Charles O'Hara  many thanks indeed for your precious suggestion!

      "simply disabling my onboard GPU" sounds a smart solution when I need best performance from my laptop. What I can try is to temporary disable the on board GPU (Intel), delate the " ImageCore" folder, run CaptureOne, then it will rebuild the kernel and the file inside the ImageCore folder. At this stage the Capture One Kernel knows that there is only one GPU (NVIDIA) as a main GPU. Then I will re-enable the internal GPU (Intel) and hopefully now CO core will keep the NVIDIA as the main and preferred GPU. Tonight I will do this test and I will keep you informed.... or maybe Mr Charles already did this procedure.

    However reading several threads, this kind of issue (GPU problem) is also very common with iOS and not only with Windows users. And probably the latest Windows 10 version 2004 is causing several problems also with other softwares and games.

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  • Charles O'Hara

    You're welcome! :)

    In my experience, no need to rebuild the image core after disabling the onboard GPU; Capture One will simply default its hardware calculations on the dedicated GPU when the other one is not available; the performance boost is very real when doing so (an the GPU usage can be checked with the performance tab in the Windows Task Manager). When leaving Capture One you can go back to the Device Manager and reactivate the onboard GPU for your other needs.

    Let me know if that works for you!

    Cheers

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  • FirstName LastName

    @Charles: I would try to rebuild the image core with the internal Intel GPU disabled and after reactivate this GPU, because making changes every time in the device manager is quite annoying . If it doesn't work I will do it manually each time I use CO, but hopefully this issue will be solved with a new update.... if it is not only my personal problem, but I'm sure other users have the same problem with GPU.

    But have you ever tried to rebuild the CO core as per my suggestion?

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  • Charles O'Hara

    I'm not sure I have tried the exact recipe you described, since I prefer to simply leave the onboard GPU deactivated (it serves no purpose on my system). But your suggestion is interesting, let me know if it works for you!

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  • FirstName LastName

    No problem Charles, I will do this test.

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  • Ernst Weinzettl

    "...but hopefully this issue will be solved with a new update.... if it is not only my personal problem, but I'm sure other users have the same problem with GPU."

    Even when there are more users with same issues this is no guarantee that they will be fixed (in nearer future).There are such a lot of well-known issues in the database*), in the healing and cloning tools, in the export of some images, the impossibility to edit some images (I know the background of the problem and can see the point of view of Capture One developers but I rather can understand and definintely not share this point of view) and many more. The problems with using GPU is only one more.

    *) it was more than two years ago when I reportted and documentated some of them (there are several issues, not only one). Nearly nothing happened till today.

    Kind regards
    Ernst

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  • FirstName LastName

    I know Ernst how frustrating it can be, because I've also done several tests. I followed Charles' recipe, I disabled the integrated GPU (Intel), I launched the CaptureOne Program, and I saw in the windows task manager that I only had the NVIDIA GPU. When I made changes to a photo or I saved the image the NVIDIA work fast.

    Then I closed the program, deleted the kernel file, reopened the program and then CaptureOne ran its test on the graphics accelerator for benchmarking. In fact, in the log file appears that there is only one GPU. I also have no errors in the log file.

    This is part of the log file without errors and NVIDIA is the device 0 as it should be:

    OpenCL initialization...
    2020-10-20 22:09:56.933> Found 2 OpenCL platforms
    2020-10-20 22:09:56.933> Found 1 OpenCL devices on platform 0 (NVIDIA CUDA)
    2020-10-20 22:09:56.933> Failed getting OpenCL devices on platform 1 (CL_DEVICE_NOT_FOUND)
    2020-10-20 22:09:56.933> OpenCL Device 0 : GeForce GTX 1660 Ti

    Then I closed the program, re-enabled the Intel GPU and started CaptureOne. Unfortunately CaptureOne noticed that there was an hardware change and then ran the test again itself.

    This time the performance is lower and this is the log file with error:

    OpenCL initialization...
    2020-10-20 22:50:56.268> First chance exception (thread 8900): 0xE06D7363 - C++ exception
    2020-10-20 22:50:56.315> Found 2 OpenCL platforms
    2020-10-20 22:50:56.315> Found 1 OpenCL devices on platform 0 (Intel(R) OpenCL)
    2020-10-20 22:50:56.315> Found 1 OpenCL devices on platform 1 (NVIDIA CUDA)
    2020-10-20 22:50:56.315> OpenCL Device 0 : Intel(R) UHD Graphics 630

    2020-10-20 22:50:56.315> OpenCL Device 1 : GeForce GTX 1660 Ti

    2020-10-20 22:50:56.377> OpenCL : Loading [C:\Users\xxxxxx\AppData\Local\CaptureOne\ImageCore\13.1.3.13\ICOCL.bin] started
    2020-10-20 22:50:56.409> OpenCL : Loading [C:\Users\xxxxxx\AppData\Local\CaptureOne\ImageCore\13.1.3.13\ICOCL.bin] OK
    2020-10-20 22:50:56.471> OpenCL : Loading [C:\Users\xxxxxx\AppData\Local\CaptureOne\ImageCore\13.1.3.13\ICOCL1.bin] started
    2020-10-20 22:50:56.534> OpenCL : Loading [C:\Users\xxxxxx\AppData\Local\CaptureOne\ImageCore\13.1.3.13\ICOCL1.bin] OK
    2020-10-20 22:50:56.534> (ERROR) bin file failed parse [C:\Users\xxxxxx\AppData\Local\CaptureOne\ImageCore\13.1.3.13\ICOCL.bin] (verificationCode=2)
    2020-10-20 22:50:56.534> (ERROR) bin file failed parse [C:\Users\xxxxxx\AppData\Local\CaptureOne\ImageCore\13.1.3.13\ICOCL1.bin] (verificationCode=2)

    I don't know what  "bin file failed parse" means, but with only GPU NVIDIA activated I do not have such error.

    You could also check your log file located in C:\Users\xxxxxx\AppData\Local\CaptureOne\Logs and reading the file "ImgCore.log" . Does some one have the same error?

    You can also have a look at C:\Users\xxxxxx\AppData\Local\CaptureOne\ImageCore\13.1.3.13  where the kernel is placed and try to read the XML file . I heve 2 XML file, one for each GPU and I have also a third XML "ICOCL_all.xml" which reports no error:

    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
    <query>
    <DeviceQueryResultCode>0</DeviceQueryResultCode>
    <DeviceQueryResult>no error</DeviceQueryResult>
    <FoundDevices>2</FoundDevices>
    </query>

    I am pretty sure that there is some problem in the ICOCL.bin file .

    At the end of the day, I don't want disable in the device manager the Intel GPU every time that I use CO also because the resolution of my screen change and so on.... And I do not want to keep the Intel GPU always disabled because I have a laptop and I don't want to use all the time the  GTX 1660 Ti in order to save the battery.

    For sure here the problem is between CaptureOne and Windows and should be a place in the Windows Registry where we can say to CO to use the "Device 1" as a primary GPU !!

    Any suggestions are welcome! Thanks.

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  • Ernst Weinzettl

    "I know Ernst how frustrating it can be, because I've also done several tests."

    Yes, i am frustrated. C1 waists my time. It is the most expensive tool of this kind, claims to be world market leader - and is full of unnecessary issues. But, as Charles said:

    "Unfortunately, and it's sad, a Capture One Windows version ridden with bugs is still way better than the competition (mainly Lightroom), IMO."

    Not only in his opinion, in my opinion too.

     

    Kind regards
    Ernst

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  • FirstName LastName

    Also for me Ernst, especially because I'm Fuji shooter.

    Can someone have a look at this folder  C:\Users\xxxxxx\AppData\Local\CaptureOne\ImageCore\13.1.3.13   and  this folder C:\Users\xxxxxx\AppData\Local\CaptureOne\Logs and share with us the same details I've reported previously? Are you also using Windows 10 version 2004 or the previous 1909 ? I'm sure also Windows is one of the player involved in this issue.

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  • Dave R

    I am using a very powerful Windows 10 laptop with a Nvidia 1060 GPU which CO did not seem to be using.  I have disabled the inbuilt Intel GPU and the NVidia GPU is now being used.  The CO benchmark showed the Nvidia card twice as fast as the Intel card.  The only reason I can see that CO prefers the intel card is that it is using OpenCL 2.something while the Nvidia card is still using 1.something despite having the latest studio driver. (I have 2 external screens attached to the laptop).

     

    Dave

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  • Charles O'Hara

    Hello everyone, thanks for the additional feedback. I opened a new support ticket as a follow-up to my 4 months old ticket about the GPU issue and I pointed it to this thread. Fingers crossed.

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  • Samoreen

    > and I pointed it to this thread...

    ...which is unfortunately off-topic since a long time. This will not help get a correct answer.

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  • FirstName LastName

    Thanks Charles I also sent a ticket to the technical support.

    I see that also Dave have the same issue. Please Dave could you tell us exactly which Windows version are you using? Is it Windows 10 version 2004 or the previous 1909 ? Could you tell me the bechmark value written in the XML file "ICOCL.xml" for both cards?

    Do you have this registry key value in your windows system? HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Khronos\OpenCL\Vendors    I do not see it on my registry.

    Tonight I will also install new driver of the Intal GPU and see what happen.

    Cheers.

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  • Charles O'Hara

    "...which is unfortunately off-topic since a long time. This will not help get a correct answer."

    It's all "on topic" regarding this:

    "What a mess. It's incredible to see how difficult it is for the development team to master the Windows version. One can wonder how this is tested."

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  • FirstName LastName

    I also wrote a message two days ago in this topic
    https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360011169937-13-1-Final-Hardware-acceleration-not-working-?page=1#community_comment_360003265117

    But only in this thread the discussion is active!!
    @Samoreen if you can tell me some other similar topic, I can spread the issue easily. Thanks.

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  • Dave R

    Hi FirstName LastName

    I am running version 20H2 of Windows 10 Pro (I am on the slow ring of beta testers) which is very stable and due for general release.

    Benchmarks are 0.115512 for the GTX1060 and 0.230833 for the Intel UHD Graphics 630

    OpenCL version is 1.2 for the NVIDIA and 2.2 for the Intel

    Khronos does not exist in my registry

     

    Dave

     

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  • Charles O'Hara

    I myself get 0.063232 on my GTX 1080 (OpenCL 1.2 with CUDA 11.1.70 on Studio Driver 456.38) and 0.501228 on my HD Graphics 530 (OpenCL 2.1 on drivers 27.20.100.7990).

    Still, Capture One prefers my HD Graphics when it's active. Could it be, as Dave suggested, because it's running on a more recent version of OpenCL?

    Or could it be because the benchmark detects higher available memory with the onboard GPU compared to the dedicated one (26 161 MB vs 8 192 MB) ?

    Windows 10 2004. 

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  • FirstName LastName

    CaptureOne 21 is going to be released ... all the issues are going to be solved, too. (ironic).

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  • FirstName LastName

    Dear all, in my ImgCore.log file I can see that this "OpenCL : Benchmarking" was running every time I opened CO and at the end I didn't have any error, and the NVIDIA GPU was the device 0. Suddenly NVIDIA is not device 0 anymore, I do not have "OpenCL : Benchmarking"  anymore and I have these 2 errors

    2020-10-20 22:50:56.534> (ERROR) bin file failed parse [C:\Users\xxxxxx\AppData\Local\CaptureOne\ImageCore\13.1.3.13\ICOCL.bin] (verificationCode=2)
    2020-10-20 22:50:56.534> (ERROR) bin file failed parse [C:\Users\xxxxxx\AppData\Local\CaptureOne\ImageCore\13.1.3.13\ICOCL1.bin] (verificationCode=2)

    During the Benchmark: OpenCL : Loading kernels (dev 0 : GeForce GTX 1660 Ti) OpenCL Device 0 : GeForce GTX 1660 Ti OpenCL benchMark : 0.060080

    OpenCL : Loading kernels (dev 1 : Intel(R) UHD Graphics 630) OpenCL benchMark : 1.176375

    Really strange that the bechmark of the Intel 630 is twice compared to 1660 Ti 

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