Export tool is broken for advanced users!
Keep the powerful export tab (export until 14.2) and the quick/simple export window. (14.3).
I hope you are doing well. The new 14.3 brang many revelant improvements. However, also a concerning move to one of the most important part of a workflow: the export.
Of course, we can understand, the export tool had some learning curve. But, it should be. it's a tool for advanced users dealing daily with a lot of prodcution, images, customers.. For sure, it does not fit the needs for "casual" shooter or smalls projects.
It's totaly fine and also great to add a "quick export" window for users who do not want to deal much with pro options. I do confess I also use a "quick" export tool for years though the plug in "JpegMiniPro".
However, the export tool of the 14.3 is a pure catasprophe for working professionals.
1) The new update remove the possibility to have a global output folder over different recipe. I use to have for each of my export a global folder like "202107_ProjectName" (I usually copy/past the project name from the file name but it's not possible anymore), as well as a subfolder for each recipe like so:
- web small: Jpeg 1600 70%, sub-folder "web"
- A4 Jpeg: Jpeg A4 300dpi 95%, sub-folder "a4_jpeg"
- Tiff max: Tiff 8bit 300 dpi, sub-folder "tiff".
And so on. It varies depending of the customers.
This is not working any more. right ?
If not, most of the pro will be really in trouble.
2) I am using an old but rock solid MBP 2012 13 inch on location. The new export windows does NOT fit properly. The old export tab, using the whole screen (as I use C1 in full screen mode) does fit nicely.
PS: I am also a software developer and manager. The best way to get optimized and fast software is to give developer old and slow machines!
3) One can not adjust the tab in the export window. Nor one can adjust the window size. Right ?
Thanks for listening.
Looking forward the next update.. for pros and casual shooters!
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beo, you are portably right but first I don't care and second I´m getting more and more pissed when imaginary user are brought up to justify the removal of features nobody has in reality asked for. i´m totally ok when someone speaks for himself and likes the new version why not for probably 95% it will not make a big difference but for the other 5 % or less working in certain (professional) fields it is a clear and demonstrable disaster so why not just acknowledge that ?
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Well, he tried to answer the possible rationale behind C1's decision, I somehow asked for it (though my questions were rather rhetoric in nature).
Yep, if everybody speaks for himself this should be sufficient. And looking at the number of votes of this feature request (to bring back the abandoned workflow capability/user interface) I think this speaks for itself, it is one of the topmost requested / voted features...
Cheers
BeO
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@BeO
You wrote: "Is the removal a one-time mistake they will correct or will this be symptomatic for the upcoming releases, and if they won't correct this, does this tell us something about their capabilities, their attitude regarding client base, or something about a new direction and target market they want to drive this software to...?"
Well, look what happened to our "universal brush" requests.
The original new brush design (where layer selections changed automatically even more than they now do) was so bad that they fixed 50% of the problem in the next update.
However, the remaining 50%, that are still bad, have not been addressed.
Would it hurt any user enjoying the new brush paradigm if a universal brush existed in addition to the current ones?
No.
Would it be much effort to make a universal brush available again?
No.
Would it hurt any fans of the new modal dialogue if expert users could still create their own tool tab with export tools?
No.
Would it hurt casual users if the fields "Job Name" and "Sub Name" were still available for advanced users (with respective fields hidden by some "Show all" tick box)?
No.
Would it be much implementation effort to allow a tool-tab approach to co-exist with the modal approach?
No.Yet, despite how simple it would be to satisfy all users, Capture One, for some reason, ignores the expert user voice in these matters.
I am really delighted about the addition of synchronisation of new subfolders, the ability to show all image in subfolders, and the ability to overwrite files during exporting. These changes are all awesome.
However, the general direction prioritising "ease of use" for casual users that invalidates efficient workflows of expert users (instead of preserving them at no cost to the casual user) concerns me.0 -
I've been using Capture One from the beginning, and therefore very confidence with the "old process tool"! I've always used "Session", not "Catalog", and my workflow has been, that the processed files is kept in the original folder in a subfolder named "Develop". (all automated in CO) Archiving clients files is much better that way..... for me it is!
I have several recipes, different color profiles, some with sharpening applied and so on. All pointing to the "Develop folder" under the RAW files.
Even after I've read several horror stories in this forum about the new "awfull Export Tool", I decided to install v.14.3.0 on top of v.14.2.0......!
After opening the new 14.3.0, I hurried to the "Export section", and You know what.......
all my recipes was there exactly as before. The "Output Location" has automatically set to "Same as original file" and with the subfolder "Develop" also created!! (You can easily set up more subfolders underneath)
I could also see a much better overview regarding the "Adjustments" without having to click on it first!
We could always discuss if it was necessary for the dialog to open in a new window, but for me it doesn't matter!
So the bottom line for me is, that I don't have to think at all about processing files, but instead pleases with the new "Magic Brush"!!!! :-)
Regard
Gert Laursen
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Great for You @Larsen..
But 99% of the participants in this conversation lost their workflow. Jumping popup blocks very useful part of this process....
Not to mention the lack of a queue tab.
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@ClassA
Yes, I'm afraid I rememember.
Yes, I appreciate the improvements you listed too.
Regarding the new blocking dialog I acknowledge that C1 did what they did in best intention, but imo they failed.
They either tried to solve a problem which does not exist or if it existed they chose a bad option to solve it.
Who needs more modal dialogs?
Probably the only modal dialog which is acceptable in a good user interface is the preferences dialog, but honestly not even this (at least not for some of the options there).
It took them quite some time to move the option to choose a background color for the viewer from the preferences dialog to the context menu in the viewer where it actually belongs to. This was a small but great improvement, even if you are changing it only occacionally.
I also find it awkward to open the preferences dialog for rendering intent, and I need 6 clicks to change it and 6 clicks to change it back.
C1 actually has this great UI concept of tools, tool tabs and floating tools (and the concept that browser, viewer incl. edit/develop are side by side simultaneously), why spoiling / breaking this concept with a modal dialog.
I cannot speak for other peoples workflow who might be more affected than me, but I find the need to open a dialog complicated, awkward and a non-joy to use. For soft proofing (and editing) and in-between exporting the old process tools had been the best in the market, imo. Now that's no longer the case.
I wish they would have addressed soft-proofing instead.
Not sure how good the Magic Brush will prove in the long run (it looks like it is better than the Auto-Masking option but only time will tell if it can be used in my images), but I wish they instead would have implemented a Color Range in the same way as the Luma Range (such that you can change the settings any time you want and not just initially in the color editor before you create a mask). Any of the two (provided a good implementation) would have made me upgrade.
Cheerio
BeO
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Hey Marcin
I claim that Nicolas Det, the first in this thread, still can make his subfolders as before, and probably many of the 99% You mentioned too! :-)
About "jumping blocks"...... if Your folders already has been defined and associated to a recipe, all You should do is to check that You are on the right recipe, and hit enter, and then You are back in the main window. It processes in the background and You can work on more images.
About the lack of the queue tab..... yes that's right! Personally I don't use it! When I have selected images to be processed, they "come out in the other end", and the "progress-bar" tells me when it's done.
I'm NOT a shareholder at Capture One, but I just wonder why so many are struggling with "a window".....! :-)
Regard
Gert Laursen
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@Gert. I think everything depends on personal workflow. I’m changing folders and recipes all the time. I’m stopping processing during photo shoot. I’ve lost frequently used tools and new export windows just complicated my job. Imagine driving a car. You have customisable screen that helps you just drive. Suddenly you have to press some buttons during your drive… IMO step backwards.
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...but I just wonder why so many are struggling with "a window".....!
as constancy is not a bad thing for a software why break something so fundamental ? so the better question is who are those who struggled so much with the old implementation ? I guess those do not really exist but the redesign was easy to accomplish and perfect for marketing.
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"I claim that Nicolas Det, the first in this thread, still can make his subfolders as before, and probably many of the 99% You mentioned too! :-)"
The support confirmed it's not possible anymore but that my feature request has been taken in account.
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The reason why a lot of us are not just struggling with this but find this "upgrade" completely broken for our purposes is that they've actually removed several pieces of functionality that turn out to be useful for a lot of people, but absolutely essential in a professional workflow, and there is no alternative (and at the moment, no alternative tool that's anywhere near as good as C1 for doing this...except for C1 14.2, natch...but then you lose all the other cool stuff they've upgraded in 14.3).
To continue with @Marcin's car analogy: my folks once owned a 2003-era Prius where Toyota, as a safety feature, cut off power to the wheels if the car detected you were in a skid on ice. Great feature...except when you're wanting to intentionally skid a bit to melt ice under the wheels and get yourself up a hill in light snow, which happened to me a couple of times. Your only approach here was to roll back and try to power yourself up at whatever angle you could, or back down the hill and try again, where if you'd had the 'traction off' button that they'd removed (but put back in in later versions, thankfully), you'd hit the button, hit the gas, and get yourself up the hill easily and safely.
Back to C1, here's a few of the things (at least that I've run into over the weekend; there are probably more) that the current Export dialog removes/breaks. Gert, not many of these may apply to you, but if you're a pro handling a lot of images either on set or for very specific export needs (as I have, where I'm dumping into a system that requires particular naming conventions--as does pretty much anyone doing cultural heritage work, which is or was also a big market of Phase's), this hurts a lot.
- removing the ability to set a subfolder/sub-name across all recipes when you export
- exporting in *your* manual order of the original collection (this would let you sequence images and then export them in a sequence, irrespective of the alphabetical order of the original images)
- exporting specifically selected variants, possibly in manual order
- the ability to do #1 in AppleScript by setting two properties, as opposed to having to hack around it and move files yourself
- the ability to pause an export job/add/remove images to it while running (handy on set if you're wanting to get images to your clients faster while not slowing down your workflow, or others'). You can start and stop, but once you stop, you can't restart.
- the ability to add your own useful tabs to what's now the Export window (in my case, setting image metadata for a large number of images when exporting requires that I select them first, set the metadata in the Metadata tab, then go to Export--or putting Metadata in its own floating tab, which is just plain inconvenient)
- the ability to see how an export job is going, down to the exact image, in a C1 tool tab, as opposed to just getting an image count in the Activities window.
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Marcin. Of course You are right about personal workflow! I'm curious about Your lost tools...... have You installed v. 14.3.0 from scratch, or "on top of the old"?
As I installed "on top", with my own workspace, I had to drag the new Export icon onto the toolbar.
And by the way, I'm on Windows........... Are You mac?
Regard
Gert
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@Gert Please read @ Martin Knowles post above.
I’m working on Mac and Windows. I’m using this software over 20 years now. I know how to setup my workflow. For me this upgrade broke my workflow. Why create some unnecessary steps when everything was just perfect. There is probably a lot of people like You. But like I said, most of users here will not accept this as a “better solution”.2 -
By the way, on my setup, it's not possible to change the size of the browser in the new exporter too..
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I just can repeat that
"the new export button in Version 14.3 is really a step backwards:
exporting is now unnecessarily complicated.
- a new window is automatically opened that blocks all other windows until I finally press close again.
- a progress bar always appears, which I have to click into the background when processing for a long time.
- stopping and resume the processing queue was a really nice feature.The old workflow was good. Please bring it back."
@ Thomas Schneider
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Please get us a quick way to get back to 14.2 (along with our sessions) until you (Phase One) figure out this mess that is the "Export" mechanism in 14.3.
I have NOT been able to export a job in 4 days due to some weird 'variant' exception being thrown and then it does not write all the files exporting to the folder. I posted details and screenshot on separate thread. It is clear that this release broke exporting.
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I had a similar (though not identical) problem running on Mojave. You’ve probably tried this, but I share it in case: a complete machine restart somehow solved the problem so at least it will write files.
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I wish to add my support to this thread and request the original 'Output Tab' be reinstated. The new Export window has broken several workflows when outputting images. The previous method (Output Tab) was not broken and after many years of using C1 was a very efficient, versatile & smooth workflow.
One simple example of the issues introduced with the new Exporter tool is that manually re-ordering images within a job (having shot with multiple cameras) prior to output, and appending a number sequence token, the new Exporter reverts them to file name order. Manually sorted images are not recognised any longer!
Who beta tested this 'New Export Feature'?
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I can use the export window but the loss of the Process Queue is a disaster. In the studio we process sessions and export them, we have to add to queue and pause to continue with work, especially tethered shooting and then allow the export to run through the night. No longer possible. Reordering of export priority due to urgent work, no longer possible. Deletion of a mistaken session export among many thousands of other images exporting, no longer possible. This is stuff we deal with every day!
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Petition:
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I really hope that Caprture One wil remove the export window and go back to the Export tab.
I think this Export window may be ok in Capture One Express, but in Capture One Pro it is best with the tab as in pre 14.3.
The Export Tab is one off the best things about Capture One Pro!
Keep Capture One Pro for pro's!
Don't shoot a running horse....
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great ! just signed it, seems someone does not trust the feature request process here to be effective....
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me too.
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Signed and sent the word round.
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Reply from the team:
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From the just released Announcement, FAQ section:
(rethorical) Question: "Why have you removed the Output tab?"
Answer: "Given that the Output tab was particularly complex to understand and use, we tried to simplify it."
Particularly complex to understand...??? by who...? by the C1 technical team...? give me a break, this tab has been there since I started to use this software... are they suggesting that recent C1 users are not that smart compared to the older ones...???
I doubt C1 team have learn anything from this...!!!
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> SFA: the new approach was envisaged to make things easier to achieve the results that people claim to want
This export feature reminds me of the tire swing cartoon from a decade log gone
https://simplebusinessguru.blogspot.com/2020/10/cartoon-tire-swing-what-customer-wanted.html
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The new export is a disaster. I have only just opened the updated version and already I am fuming. How am I to find my recipes - I have a lot of them - different sets for different clients-without being able to expand the tool or create an expandable floating tool I was hoping that there would be a nesting/folder system so only the set needed could be open like in styles. CAPTURE ONE AS A MATTER OF URGENCY - make this new export feature an option until you fix it. Give us back the tabs in the main window - it wasn't perfect but was usable.
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Yes, I fully agree with all the comments. This upgrade forced me to downgrade back to 14.2. Please give the option.
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Having agreed to the NDA I can't say anything specific, but anyone interested in this topic I'd highly recommend checking out the brand new 14.4 beta.
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