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New License Model: Changes to the way licensing, updates, and upgrades work

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1064 comments

  • J M Smith

    BeO

    Right now in the US you can purchase a perpetual license for $179.40.  A 40% discount on the normal $299.00.

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  • Steve Oakley

    who cares. my guess is they lost a large part of their user base doing this. gone. its easy to loose a customer, hard to gain one. its been an epically dumb move. with people waking up and realizing what a bad deal it is and all the problems subscriptions create. this is 5 years late to the game which is on its tail end I think. maybe in another year they wake up and go back to the old model if they are still in business. I moved on to another product but continue to open C1 here and there for old projects. sad because it really is a great product.

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  • Medea Pers

    Here in the Netherlands the perpetual license is 349 euro, that is in dollars 370,08. Month, billed yearly: 12,78 euro that is in dollar: 13,55. 

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    J M Smith

    Thanks. When logged in, I see the full price in Euro. I am quite sure my current license is not eligble for a reduced upgrade price.

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    It seems at least they bettered the terms with regards to keeping the old perpetual license, if I remember right that was not possbile when they announced the policy changes. That's what I see:

    Use code XXX and get 30% off when you buy an annual Capture One Pro or All in One subscription. Don't worry, you'll still keep your current perpetual license.

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  • woefi

    BeO Well, in theory that would be fine if there wasn't the problem that (after some updates) your catalogs get upgraded and cannot be opened by your old perpetual version anymore.. 

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  • J M Smith

    woefi

    That is the gotcha...

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  • Rainer Schmidt

    I bought Capture One 23 last year in pre-upgrade and assumed that I would get updates for one year until the release of the new version, 16.3 included, as in previous years.  Is it actually legally ok that Capture One unilaterally changed the rules?

    Now I have to either subscribe to get the new features of 16.3, which I don't want, or pay a completely exorbitant price for the perpetual license. Especially because this perpetual license receives no updates at all. 

    Capture One has disappointed me badly. 

     

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  • Shane Baker

    Rainer Schmidt

    I bought Capture One 23 last year in pre-upgrade and assumed that I would get updates for one year until the release of the new version, 16.3 included, as in previous years.  Is it actually legally ok that Capture One unilaterally changed the rules?

    Now I have to either subscribe to get the new features of 16.3, which I don't want, or pay a completely exorbitant price for the perpetual license. Especially because this perpetual license receives no updates at all. 

    I would add (and this isn't new) as C1 only supports a "perpetual" licence for a maximum 12 months, we've effectively been on a subscription for years.

    Add to that the fact that I recently updated my MacOS (for free), and receive various fixes and updates on almost all my software on an on-going basis (at no additional cost), C1 isn't anyone's idea of a bargain.

    They've killed the golden geese with this latest ploy.

     

     

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  • mattspace

    Rainer Schmidt As mentioned earlier in this thread (assuming it wasn't deleted), if you're an EU (and some other jurisdictions) customer, Capture One is legally required to fix any and all Capture One bugs in the software, for a period of two (or more or less) years after purchase, and in the narrowest definition, so long as you remain on an operating system version that was listed as "Supported" at the time of purchase.

    Whether Capture One provides these bug fixes by issuing patches to the version you own, or by giving you a newer version of the software which contains a fix, what they are not entitled to do is say "we fixed this, but the fix is only available in an update for which you have to pay more money". Companies are not generally allowed to profit from remediating faulty products.

    IF the flaw is fixed in a version that was a paid upgrade, and it has been less than two years, and Capture One will not give you a fix, seek a refund of your original purchase, and then re-buy the software. If the flaw hasn't been fixed, and there's no fix on the horizon, maybe seek the refund anyway and potentially re-buy to reset your two year counter.

    As long as Capture One (or indeed any software company) insists on selling flawed products, you as a consumer can enforce your legal rights to seek no-cost redress until you have a working product of merchantable quality for the duration of its statutory warranty.

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  • Shane Baker

    As mentioned earlier in this thread (assuming it wasn't deleted), if you're an EU (and some other jurisdictions) customer, Capture One is legally required to fix any and all Capture One bugs in the software, for a period of two (or more or less) years after purchase, and in the narrowest definition, so long as you remain on an operating system version that was listed as "Supported" at the time of purchase.

    Australia also requires that a product be fit for purpose and that after sales service (warranty repairs) be provided for an appropriate period. That said, I've never heard of anyone following up on this for software.

    C1 might make a good test case - especially at the high price.

     

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  • Jason Patel

    So today I finally have moved on, was intending to keep using C1 but I felt like I was wasting my time "investing" time in editing on a platform that I principally dont agree with the model.  Jumped to Amazon Prime Deal for the Main Competitor for £70 for the year, I last used that software in 2013 when I switched to C1.

    A shame but the innovations look to be more favorable elsewhere too.

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  • Jacques Dubé

    Jason Patel C1 Main Competitor? Which one is it? Thanks.

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  • Jason Patel

    Adobe Creative Cloud for Photographers, so subscription but much better value.  

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  • Jacques Dubé

    Jason Patel Thank you very much! :)

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  • woefi

    Well… the price is not the main reason to choose between Lr and C1 but I’m now looking at the prime deal for LrClassic which is 80€ per year…

    I rather have CaptureOne get their sh*t together and start implementing at least half of the „Improve Capture One“ User suggestions and obvious shortcomings and I will never speak of the price again, promise. But the reality is that they even managed to slow progress down in the last year…

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  • Jason Patel

    It's a bit of a struggle as been C1 user for 10 years.  It feels very limiting using LrC but I see people get amazing results so need to learn.  The interface feels dated compared to C1 with layers hidden away in an obscure place.  What I really want is to have a fast workflow with results on par or better than C1 will see if this can meet those requirements.  Need to invest my time in learning.

    What I miss is so far (1) Brightness Slider, (2) Levels Sliders, (3) Interface is Standard with Limited Layout Customization unlike C1 (4) Multiple Color Readout Points

    The last one is for people critical with color but also massively useful for those of use who are colorblind to confirm outcome is reasonable and for removing color casts prior to creative color balance.

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  • truepictures

    Shane Baker

    "Add to that the fact that I recently updated my MacOS (for free), and receive various fixes and updates on almost all my software on an on-going basis (at no additional cost) …"

    I do not want to go into the fundamental differences between "Mac" and the "rest" here. However, the erroneous assumption is made again and again that Apple operating systems are free of charge. Whoever buys Apple products buys hardware! The operating system (incl. updates/upgrades) is therefore part of the product and is therefore included in the purchase price (one reason why macOS, for example, cannot be bought separately). Therefore, a comparison between an Apple operating system and any software like COP is not easily possible. Fortunately, COP only tries to sell software and not hardware :-) 

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  • gb

    The new version 13 of Lightroom is tempting me to go back.
    Their new color point tools seem to match C1 at last.
    Also their new lens blur/bokeh simulation and the existing advanced noise reduction start to add up.

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  • Shane Baker

    However, the erroneous assumption is made again and again that Apple operating systems are free of charge. Whoever buys Apple products buys hardware! The operating system (incl. updates/upgrades) is therefore part of the product and is therefore included in the purchase price (one reason why macOS, for example, cannot be bought separately).

    I never said MacOS is free. The price of the licence is included in the purchase price, and thereafter, I receive updates (both bug fixes and enhancements) as long as my hardware can support the OS. A very different approach to that of C1 which has been that they support their product in a half-hearted way for a maximum 12 months and then you buy it again, or live with what you've got.

    That said, if you don't like the MacOS example, what about Final Cut Pro or DiVinci Resolve? Both appear to be genuinely perpetual licences on products at least as complex as C1.

     

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  • John Harper

    I purchased Final Cut Pro with my MacOS 13 years ago and have received all updates free of charge and can put it on as many computers as I like.

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    mattspace

    As mentioned earlier in this thread (assuming it wasn't deleted), if you're an EU (and some other jurisdictions) customer, Capture One is legally required to fix any and all Capture One bugs in the software, for a period of two (or more or less) years after purchase, and in the narrowest definition, so long as you remain on an operating system version that was listed as "Supported" at the time of purchase.

    Does the EU regulation really require to fix any and all software bugs, or must it only be operable on that operating system.

    Speaking of operating system, what if C1 states a specific (or range of) operating system builds, let's say you buy C1 16.1 and they support it on macOS 11 Big Sur up to macOS 13.2.1 Ventura, do you need to stay with macOS 13.2.1 Ventura to have an operable C1 or can you argue you need to upgrade to e.g. macOS 13.5 Ventura for the reason to get security patches, and if C1 16.1 does is not supported on macOS 13.5 they need to provide a 16.1.9 to fix that or alternatively give you a 16.2.3?

     

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  • truepictures

    Shane Baker, John Harper

    "I purchased Final Cut Pro with my MacOS 13 years ago and have received all updates free of charge and can put it on as many computers as I like."

    That is one of the reasons why I work with Apple products. They are supposedly more expensive to buy, but they are up-to-date for a long time, like my MacBookPro from 2015 ... 

    Capture One's business behaviour with regard to purchase licenses is very customer-unfriendly, to say the least. On the other hand, nobody is forced to buy Capture One software. We all know about the competitor products – which are mostly cheaper, both in subscription and as a perpetual license. And yet we give free rein to our anger at this point instead of simply switching to the alternative image editing software. We invest some of our valuable time for this. Why do we do this? Maybe because we hope that the people in charge at Capture One will be impressed? Hope dies last ... I think there are other, individual reasons.

    Personally, after considering all options, I have now decided to accept the current subscription offer with my loyalty bonus for one year. For me, this results in monthly costs (excl. VAT) of 7.60 EUR for the desktop version or 10.47 EUR for the all-in-one package.  This is cheaper for the coming year than the previous upgrade price for the purchase licence. In a year's time, I will again check the prices and conditions applicable at that time and, if necessary, make a new decision. And yes, of course, if I cancel in a year's time I will not be able to continue working with this current version. But I have thought this through for myself.

    Just a thought: I spend over 100 EUR every month just to get to work. Or: how much do the journeys cost me per month to be able to take photos outside?  Or: how much does a good bottle of wine cost, for example? No matter what I put in relation to the monthly subscription costs: these do not limit me, no matter whether it is the Adobe Photographer package or the Capture One offers. And if they do, I have to consider whether photography is still affordable for me overall. I used to have to buy film for every photo and have it developed. And each photo on photo paper additionally ... And no one complained about these costs at the time.

    I can continue to use my existing licence for Capture One Pro 23. I can upgrade existing catalogues and sessions to the new version, for the current COP23 I use the automatically created backup files. As with other software, files/data are not always backwards compatible when upgrading software (which is logical) and therefore not a specific Capture One problem.

    I wish everyone to find the best solution for themselves. Sometimes it turns out afterwards that the supposedly cheaper solution is not the best solution after all. So test who commits forever :-)

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  • mattspace

    BeO

    Does the EU regulation really require to fix any and all software bugs, or must it only be operable on that operating system.

    I suspect the test would likely be the same as any other product or service - 100% of features, working 100% of the time, and a place for reasonable expectations.

    It would be reasonable to expect a piece of software purchased with operating system support for a.b.c version, to support a.b.d. It would not be reasonable to expect that some features of a product you bought simply don't work reliably.

    If you buy a car with a 6 cylinder engine, and one cylinder doesn't work occasionally, the car company still has to repair or replace that engine. They can't adopt the the stance that the rest of the cylinders are fine, and that one works most of the time, so that's good enough. Likewise they can't demand you pay extra to get the 8 cylinder engine, which doesn't suffer the problem.

    Software isn't special - it's just a product or service, and there's no reason to treat it with different standards to any other product or service. That's the broader trend of regulation worldwide. I know where I live, for example, companies are prohibited from claiming a piece of paid hardware comes with "free", and therefore un-warrantied software. It's all considered part of a cumulative total, and covered by group liabilities.

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  • Medea Pers

    After all the criticism of Capture here, it is time for something positive. I finally made a subscription after using the trial version of the latest 23. The AI mask is fantastic. Saves not only time, but also very precisely. A pleasure to work with. Together with all the other improvements I'm glad I stayed with Capture, despite my doubts after the loyalty program.  I always liked the images more than from other converters ( color, film like, etcetera) and still do. This version strengthened it even more. Kind regards, Roel. 

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  • Edwardsson

    @Medea Pers, I have a similar experience, even though I would have preferred the former model regarding the license.
    As a teacher, I got a discount when I made the subscription at the end of the summer.
    I very much like the combination of working with Capture One 23 and Affinity Photo 2. No need for any other software right now.

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  • Chengzuo Zhen

    Capture One's recent maneuver to abruptly alter their license terms is not only disconcerting but reeks of opportunism. I was under the distinct impression that my perpetual license purchase guaranteed updates until the next major release. This assumption has been starkly disproved. The pivotal question here is: Did Capture One clandestinely revise their terms post-purchase? Such a move not only skirts the borders of legality but also dives deep into the murky waters of ethical business practices.

    In terms of value, their current subscription model is exorbitantly priced, especially when juxtaposed with Adobe's more economical offerings. This leaves me, like many photography enthusiasts, in a predicament, coercing a shift to Lightroom CC. It appears that our demographic is trivial to Capture One, an oversight that might just be their undoing.

    This debacle transcends mere pricing and features; it's a matter of principle. The feeling of being duped is not just disappointing; it's personal. Capture One has not just lost a customer in me, but also a shred of respect that might have been salvageable.

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  • Phrank

    I don't know anymore what to think about C1’s Loyality program. The last yearly updates which I have bought (21, 22, 23) became more and more expensive anyway. As said somewhere else here in the forum. I don't like to be locked out of any Digital Asset Management software because I need to continue to pay a fee to use it. Lst BlackFriday my photo store offered a full C1 license which was cheaper than the loyality offer. Now I have two licenses: 16.2 and 16.3 I like the new features in 16.3, but could live also with 16.2 – I have bought it specially it for the smaller and faster previews which it generates. The AI masking tools is a nice add on but not essential for my work. I would recommend, just wait for the next november and get a BlackFriday offer;-)

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  • J M Smith

    Here is the PetaPixel article entitled:

    Capture One Lays Off Staff Amid a ‘Significant’ Internal Restructure

    https://petapixel.com/2024/01/30/capture-one-lays-off-staff-amid-a-significant-internal-restructure/

    Many of us predicted this, had they been honest and upfront it would have gone better for them.

    I am so delighted that I made the switch back to Lightroom!!!

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  • Chris

    I am not happy to read this.

    I hate to say it: A lot, lot of people warned Capture One, that they took the false turn with the decision about perpetuel licences. And that it would hurt them long term. Now it is there (only the beginning?)... 

    WHY is it so often, that people learn things the hard way and are not willing to hear their customers?

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