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New License Model: Changes to the way licensing, updates, and upgrades work

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1065 comments

  • Florian Spicka

    ernst.w

    in my family each member uses a camera and a single pc. So, one could use this license i did bought. The funny thing is that if i buy cameras for my children- they are too young to make a contract by law, they can't use capture one express they did got with the cam together. For me it is not possible to install several capture one express versions in my name for our children. 

    So i do not buy a enterprise license- i just wants to use two licenses in one name- a subscription and my permanent license. 

     

     

     

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  • Barry Justice

    Florian Spicka If you validate a new subscription under a new name and email address then you could keep your V22.  But ......... the problem is that everything that you do on V23 is not backwards compatible to V22. I'm just keeping V22 and not worrying about bug fixes ....... they never fix 90% of them anyway,  and when they do they just introduce new ones.  It's a vicious circle.

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  • Barry Justice

    As a hobbyist photographer I only need C1.  I don't need live,  i-pad, tethering and all the so called speed things they keep on introducing.  In my mind with the high price of C1 I'm just subsidizing the pro with all their bells and whistles.  Just give me basic C1 on its own at a decent price for a license and I'll be happy.  I've updated 6 times over the years,  they have lots of my money so do the right thing and treat ALL your customers with respect and dignity. 

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  • Christopher Bowyer

    Thomas Schneider

    In the 12 days since Capture One's announcement of this change, I've come to the conclusion that the change to no updates once a new feature release comes out, is a bigger problem than the discontinuation of upgrade pricing (to be replaced by a secret loyalty "scheme").  

    This is because while having to pay full price for each upgrade is not ideal, it could be coped with, by just upgrading less often.  

    However no longer receiving updates (apart from bugfix releases prior to a new feature release) is a much bigger issue, as this could lead to zero bugfixes, if they are released as part of the next feature release. 

    As an example of this, consider the 14.2 release in which Capture One removed the Output tab.  Capture One only resolved this by adding a new Export tab in the 14.3 release. 

    So if the new licensing structure had been in place, anyone who purchased v14.2 would then have to pay again to buy v14.3, solely to fix the lack of the Output tab in v14.2. 

    Jack-W How is this acceptable, please?  

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  • Disappointed CO Customer

    Your recent email about changes to the perpetual licence were as welcome as a hole in the head.

    Over the past few years many of you have told us you want access to new tools and improvements sooner, rather than have them all in one ‘major’ version of Capture One Pro at the end of each year.

    Yeah, I bet anyone who asked for that didn't expect to be "rewarded" with a sly push to subscription by making the perpetual licence more expensive. 

    Thank you as always for being part of the Capture One community.

    Not for much longer...

    We’re excited to share our new products and features with you over the coming months, and hope you’ll enjoy using them as much as we have creating them!

    I'm less excited about your new licence model. And no, I won't be enjoying anything as I head back to Adobe. If I am going to be pay subscription, then I may as well pay for the industry standard software. 

    Disappointed is an understatement. I get the attraction of subscription, but it will be with a very different customer base than the one you had. Thanks for rewarding customers who've been with you for years with this kick in the teeth. 

     

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  • ernst.w

    @Florian Spicka

    Are You sure, You answered my post?

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  • francois pellegrini

    I am now in the DxO world, as I decided to leave the C1 world 3 days ago.

    I may eventually come back to C1, one day, if C1 still exists. It has been a great experience and time; but as a customer I hate the idea of being fooled, and trust is gone: I got fooled a couple of years ago by C1 (a so-called pre-upgrade special loyalty price "offering of the year", followed by a much better public offering a few days later for Black Friday), and thought I had learnt and would not be fooled again. But C1's marketing gurus have managed to fool me again...  I had forgiven C1, thinking that it was my fault if I had been fooled. But I will not forgive this time. Trust is gone.

    Good luck to C1!

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  • Gerald Moulder

    Paul Reiffer Here is a screen shot of the Output Tool Tab C1 21 V14.2 which worked beautifully, best in the business. I can't recall ever having an Export Tool Tab unit C1 21 V14.4 after V14.3 had the Output Tool tab removed.

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  • Gerald Moulder

    Paul Reiffer Here is the Export tool tab from the lastest version I have in stalled on a test computer C1 22 V15.33

    More congested harder to use and takes many more mouse clicks to create dynamic output.

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  • Weldon Thomson

    So, between buying capture one 22 when it was on sale, and a couple of moths later buying the pre-sale priced upgrade to capture one 23 , I effectively paid about $310 for a capture one 23 license. That is more than the current list price of $299, and now I get an email from BH Photo who has it on sale for $179. Capture One gave no hint that they would be announcing 23 so soon when they sale priced 22 and, gave no hint that they would be changing their licensing model so soon (within a few weeks) when they released (and I upgraded to) 23. This does NOT sound like a company that is ethical and playing fair with (who would be loyal) customers. I feel like such a RUBE!

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  • J M Smith

    Capture One, are you listening to the palpable anger?

    This would make a great biz school case study.

    You need to reveal your loyalty “scheme” RIGHT NOW…

    Or this was your plan all along, move customers to the subscription plan and jettison those that won’t convert.

    I am now just interested in how this plays out, the message was very clear and I moved to a different solution 🤣

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  • Barry Justice

    They've screwed up big time and they don't even seem to care,  that's scary for those who love the software.

     

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  • bernhard sanders

    I have always liked C1, i have bought the upgrades and – that is for different good reasons important for me – i have been able to activate them offline. I am never online with my workstation but via my internet PC linux based.

    In this forum and during that discussion and understandable outrage how C1 is treating us with non-communication, strange (suspected by a lot of us) plans and giving us all reasons not to trust them regarding the future of perpetual C1, i could read and learn a lot of other RAW Converters, DAM functionality, that we can not go back once we are in V23 (missing backward compatibility), about no clear statement that they can possibly deactivate an online activated perpetual license and so on. Thank you all for that.

    I have 2 perpetual licenses, that means 6 activation's. I had one camera specific license for my Fuji, for some reasons and because that time the licenses have been affordable, i upgraded the Fuji only version to pro (22 – that means V15) and have bought a second pro one for my Lumix S1R. Today i am really happy with that.

    All my cameras are supported by v22, and for the next 2 or 3 years i have no plans to upgrade my cameras. Therefore V22 works great for me and i have plenty of time to look for other solutions without being set under pressure by upgrading to V23 (which i would not even think about after i have found out yesterday that since V15.1 the offline activation is not possible any longer).

    Anyone writing here can certainly go his own way for his own needs or workflow or the pro/con evaluation of perpetual or subscriber license – nothing wrong with that. But the great thing is that we can share experiences, fears and troubleshooting here to get prepared for an more or less uncertain future and behaviour of C1. For those who depend more or less on C1 V22, having an perpetual V22 license, here is what i did to solve the possibility of running into troubles:

     

    I have installed C1 V22 version 15.0 perpetual License on different computers.

    Important: it only works with C1 22 Version 15.0 – the option for offline activation is removed in V 15.1.x

    After activating each of them offline i have created system images (with AOMEI-Backupper) and store it in a safe place.

    I have tried it – after restoring the image on a different SSD, everything works fine. There is no need at all to reactivate the license. And it works even on a different PC.

    No one can deactivate the license – my PC will never be connected to the internet.

    It is not illegal – C1, you can trust me, I will never use more than the 6 activations. In fact i am working with just 2, one on my PC at home and one on my notebook. Therefore my „spare and stored“ activations are strictly only spare ones in case one of my PC-s break down and/or your offline activation might be down.

    An addition to software tip's - i also like Picture Ninja RAW Converter - great IQ, but not that rich on features.

    And regarding a DAM: I am using Daminion Home server (not any longer avaible - they have Team server now, more expensive) and there was an standalone (not server based) version - great up to version 6.2  2333. The good advantage: The standalone versions do work with up to 15.000 assets and is free. And the licensed version is even with +100.000 assets very fast.

    Good Luck C1.

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  • J M Smith

    Bernhard,

    The sad part is that you have to jump through these hoops just to make your software work 🙁

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  • bernhard sanders

    J M,

    It makes certainly a bit of work (about 4h) - but no headache about C1 activation's etc. any more. Therefore i feel no sadness and have found a working solution at least for some oncoming years to solve the troubles caused by C1.

    The sad part is more on the C1 side. We all have been for years more or less happy customers. But as Paul Reiffer has stated in his video on 8th Dec. - everything is going digital - well, for a majority of people. But not all companies have fair conditions. That means we have to learn to bypass these troubles. And a learning curve is not sad, we have to learn to read terms and conditions carefully, we learn quite easily that a golden shine may not be real gold. That is not too bad at all.

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  • Weldon Thomson

    I purchased Capture One primarily because I have been shooting more and more Fujifilm x raw images and I like the job it does with them compared to older versions of Lightroom. I also liked that the Pro version would provide a one place DAM for all my other Nikon and Canon raw files (or any others I may use) as well. However, as a result of all this, I have gone back into Lightroom and found that it does a much better job with Fuji files than it has in the past, and I never had a problem with it handling Nikon and Fuji. I have, and would probably have access to, Lightroom anyway as it is packaged with Photoshop which I can’t see myself eliminating. I still, however, have disks for the last available licensed version although I don’t know if it will still run or can be activated. It is looking very much as though, between Lightroom and DXO pure raw and/or Photo Lab 6, I will be able to do everything I want and need to do. I have also looked at, and will be testing photo mechanic to see how it might work in the mix and, from what I’ve seen so far, it looks pretty good as a DAM. My current feeling is that, going forward, it will be good to have options and back up plans. I still do like Capture One (software) but cannot/do not trust the company or the people running it at this point. Time will tell what they inevitably do, but it is difficult to imagine them easily recovering from their mis-handling if this situation. It really should not have been that difficult to foresee, I believe they had to have known well in advance of both the Black Friday sale for 22 and the pre-sale of 23, and it is hard to believe that they ever had intent to do anything other than lure a bunch of people in, and take their money, just ahead of making their license change announcement. That, of course, makes me question their intent going forward (I find it hard to believe they don’t already know, and why they seem unwilling to share their plans in significant detail. Just leaves me feeling swindled while still hoping for better and expecting worse. The sooner they can open up and communicate, the better the chances that they will be able to overcome the mess they have created.

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  • Andreas Kern

    I switched from Adobe Lightroom to C1 because I wasn't satisfied with the subscription model. There are many alternatives out there, I will take a very close look at them with the next update and I can only recommend this to all other users.

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  • Henrik Andersson

    There have been several comments about Capture One and Phase One being two separate companies after Silverfleet Capital sold its stake. Is this true? Axcel claims a 56% ownership in Phase One and the press release from 2019 states that they acquired a majority stake in Phase One and its two divisions Software Imaging Systems (Capture One) and Image Capture Solutions (medium-format camera systems).

    What amazes me most is that the management is completely silent after two weeks of people flooding the internet with bad publicity. Any sensible company that depends on a few specialized products would immediately try to control the damage by clear communication and assurances that they will somehow sort it out.

    We understand that the decision was made by the investment company to increase the revenue stream that obviously does not meet their financial targets. Losing a few hundred customers may not be an issue in the short run, but can you afford to lose your credibility as a professions software vendor in this highly competitive industry?

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  • Thomas Kyhn
    Top Commenter

    Henrik Andersson:

    What amazes me most is that the management is completely silent after two weeks of people flooding the internet with bad publicity. Any sensible company that depends on a few specialized products would immediately try to control the damage by clear communication and assurances that they will somehow sort it out.

    We understand that the decision was made by the investment company to increase the revenue stream that obviously does not meet their financial targets.

    On the other hand, it's impossible to know what's been going on inside the company for the past weeks. Employees may very well acknowledge the damage but be unable to do anything.

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  • Paul Reiffer

    @Henrik Andersson

    I love (sarcasm) blanket statements like these: 🙄

    We understand that the decision was made by the investment company to increase the revenue stream that obviously does not meet their financial targets. Losing a few hundred customers may not be an issue in the short run, but can you afford to lose your credibility as a professions software vendor in this highly competitive industry?

    Who is "we"?
    Who did you speak to directly at the investment company?
    Surely you're breaking an NDA by discussing such a conversation?

    Oh, no, you're not - because that never happened, and you're falsely projecting your thoughts as the "understanding" of a wider group.

    Quite often in scenarios of predicted "doom", the speculation can be worse than the actual outcome. Go careful, you'll conspire yourself out if you're not careful....!

    As @Thomas Kyhn says - it's impossible for anyone outside the company to know the thinking (and plan) for now - so it's not helpful to fill that silence with pure guesswork.

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  • Robert Cope

    A question concerning continued "activation" of a perpetual licence.  I am currently on C1 15.3.2 and like most on this blog I am unlikely to upgrade to C1 16 (C1 23) given this announcement.

    There has been much discussion/comments about the Capture One requirement to maintain an internet connection to keep a perpetual licence activated.  One post suggests that C1 15.0 is the latest version that can remain installed and working without this requirement.  Can anyone shed any light on whether this is simply speculation on the part of the (now suspicious) user community or is there a clear and formal "T&C statement" from Capture One that this is actually the case (if so can you point me to the relevant documentation - thanks).  Like a number of other amateur/retired users I am contemplating simply freezing my C1 software at its current release level along with an older 27 inch MAC which I would isolate from the internet for security reasons.

    Capture One might like to note that thus far I have upgraded every year for the last few years in the belief that I would always get bug support for at least the next 12 months and that I could choose to freeze my licence (whilst continuing to use it) at any time in the future of my choosing.  That is what "Perpetual" should mean.  Only reason I didn't upgrade this year was that the price was unreasonably high - so more lost income for you! 

     

     

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  • Henrik Andersson

    Paul Reiffer

    You have a fair point about not speculating. I don’t like it too. But this is what happens when we, passionate users of Capture One, are met with silence after the company opened a can of worms.

    That is my main point. Capture One should have initiated their damage control (by communicating to us) after a day when it was clear that the message was not well received (i.e. not thought through and/or not communicated in a good way).

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  • Henk de Haan

    Robert Cope, C23 with perpetual license works fine without internet connection. If you have a subscription you need to be connected to the internet once every 30 days (see one of the FAQ at the left side of the page).
    You do have to have an active internet connection when you install/activate CO on another machine (and probably also when installing an update, although I didn't check that). 

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  • bernhard sanders

    Hi Robert Cope

    i have tried myself (no speculation or second hand news!) to activate 15.3.x offline with the windows version. No success. To find out why i have gone through the Q&A of C1 and found out in one answer that offline activation just works until 15.0. - no idea whether it works for Mac. Installing and running 15.3 does not show up an activation dialog with offline option. 15.0 does. Here is the link:

    https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360015483778-Offline-activation

    If you have a 22 license, you can download the 15.0 version installer and use your serial. I did it 3 days ago.

    And to Paul Reiffer:

    come on, Paul, it has been the behaviour and information policy of C1 who has opened the field of - what you call - doom speculations etc.

    We - so it can be understood - are careful. About our work. Almost everyone "speculating" here has been happy with C1 in the past and clearly stated that. But we have to be careful about our work in the future as well. Obviously C1 and their strategy, management and communication teams sail on different boats than we, the customers, who have made C1 successful with OUR loyalty over the years !!!!

    We need facts to make decisions for the time to come - if C1 can not deliver understandable facts but leaves us alone with mysterious loyalty plans without any not even hint what they are going to deliver - well, Paul, that is the perfect soil to grow "speculations" on. Intended or not isn't relevant here.

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  • Thomas Kyhn
    Top Commenter

    Shark Senesac:

    While I don't speak for everyone, I do believe these 600+ comments are a fair expression and representation of chaos C1 has created with their lack of transparency and communication. 

    In addition to which there's the still rising number of users who have signed the open letter (square brackets added to prevent reply from being blocked): openletter[.]earth/open-letter-from-a-digital-technician-to-capture-one-6cca76e8

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Paul Reiffer

    As @Thomas Kyhn says - it's impossible for anyone outside the company to know the thinking (and plan) for now - so it's not helpful to fill that silence with pure guesswork.

    It actually would be helpful if C1 filled the silence, or if they would have disclosed the full picture to its user base, not only half of the story.

    Less room for speculation then.

    The part they did disclose is not in favor of perpetual license holders, and I hope the second part (to be disclosed mid of January) will more than compensate for the bad news/move. But almost nobody here expects, at least that's true for me, great news or a delayed Christmas present, that tells something about the trust C1 has "earned" over the last few years, imo.

     

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    If I were Adobe I would try to buy Capture One.

    Assuming C1 is  in control of their costs (which a due diligence process would reveal) then I would either benefit from the high C1 subscription or license fees, revenuewise, or welcome C1 refugees in my CC subscription program. The few users who probably move to something else would not bother me much, I would think that rising the CC subscription fee by only 10%, which would probably acceptable by most, more than compensates for that. 

    If I were the Capture One owner and if I would think about offering the C1 company to Adobe, I would try to raise license and upgrade cost and make perpetual licenses less attractive, in order to increase C1's market value.

    No speculation here, only a fictional Christmas story.

    Cheers,
    BeO

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  • ernst.w

    @Henk de Haan

    The problem for some/most users is that there is a connection to activation server(s) is necessary. Even when necessary means „only“ one time a month, the company could stop activation servers from one day to now.

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  • Thomas Kyhn
    Top Commenter

    BeO:

    If I were Adobe I would try to buy Capture One.

    If this were to happen it could very well end up being beneficial to users. At least in my experience, using Adobe products has never been as frustrating as using Capture One (though obviously Capture One has its advantages, otherwise there'd be no reason not to stick with Lightroom).

    I personally wouldn't have minded an increase in price or the push toward subscription so much if using Capture One hadn't been such a frustrating experience due to the bugs that aren't fixed and the poor customer support. Perhaps in the hands of Adobe these things would be improved.

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  • Weldon Thomson

    Paul Reiffer

    I do not believe it is “speculation” to project one’s own knowledge and experience regarding another’s activity, actions, and in-actions in thought, discussion, and decisions to, at least, exercise and promote caution. I believe that is just good common sense.

    Further, nobody should be dissuaded from sharing their personal thoughts, concerns, and beliefs through fear or intimidation, including accusations of “speculations” or warnings to be careful. That does not help, either.

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