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New License Model: Changes to the way licensing, updates, and upgrades work

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1064 comments

  • Simon Bergman

    Capture One's unpredictable pricing is driving me crazy!

    When I bought a perpetual license in the end of 2018, upgrades where about 120 €, then they went up to about 160 € and now they are about 210 €. And after Feb 1st 2023 there are no more upgrades.

    Usually you could get an upgrade discount on a Black Friday deal, including an upgrade when the next version was released in december. But that also meant that you had no idea what you bought. In Swedish we have an expression that can be translated to "to buy a pig in a sack", which means that you buy something that can't be seen, tested, examined before you buy it. Danes should know it as well, as they have the same: "købe grisen i sækken". That has been Capture One's business model for perpetual users during the last years. 

    The price of the pig, excuse me - software, has gone up during the last years. And now - as a last chance for perpetual users, we get an opportunity to buy another pig in the sack. We can upgrade - for the last time - to version 23 until January 31th, but the details of the new business model for perpetual users will be announced on February 1st. 

    The pricing of a product is set by the company that is selling it. However, a business model that is built on unpredictability in pricing and that is based on selling the pig in the sack is not to show respect to the customer. Just tell us - what are you selling (for example, what is the new loyalty scheme?) and what will be the cost be for perpetual license users in the future?

    3
  • Maarten Heijkoop

    I will do the same, I have DXO6 already and will take a look at Photomechanic.

    1
  • EM

    @...:

    What about this:

    As user of V23 after the final quarter 2023 I have to buy an new version. See 

     

    Back to https://www.captureone.com/en/pricing/capture-one-pro

     

    What about the following promises on CaptuteOne's pricing site

    See my screenshots a few minutes ago:

    From the FAQs on the Pricing-Site:

     

    Comparing your statements and the promises my conclusion is:

    Yes I feel cheated :(((

     

    This cheating is well documented by me and I will not stop to claim my refund of V23 !!!

    4
  • M.H.

    1. You stopped the brand-versions (Sony in my case), and "upgraded" the brand-versions to the pro-version; so you forced me to have a full pro version now, that I don't need since I only have Sony cameras.

    Now the upgrade from C1 22 to C1 23 became MUCH more expensive for me.

    Since the are no new improvements in C1 23 I did fortunately not upgrade this time.
    Before I purchased the upgrades every year, but because of you strategy - much higher upgrade price for no improvements - I did not upgrade the first time this year.

    So, you received not more money, but no money at all from me this year, maybe you should rethink your strategy...


    2. Now this disaster!
    Fortunately I did not purchase the Upgrade to C1 23 this year, I would really feel ripped of!


    Sorry, I'm angry and very disappointed!


    If I will purchase any further Upgrades in the future, or if I will switch back to Adobe after many years with Capture One, will depend on your further strategy and on the price for the further upgrades from C1 22 to C1 24 or however you call it.

    Before (2021) I paid about (would have to check for the correct price) EUR 100,- (netto) for the annual upgrade of my Sony Version. I did not aggree / pay about EUR 140,- what you charged for the 2022 Upgrade (without any useful improvements at all for me!!), what is + 40%! (In my case - for nothing!).

    And now you want me to purchase not an upgrade version but a full version every year, for EUR 349,- (EUR 293,- netto)?!? That's 3x the price of previous years!

    Sorry, I'm angry and very disappointed!

    I will definitely not purchase this, and I guess 98% of your customers as well!

    You should rethink your strategy, if you want to keep your customers...

     

     

    2
  • Christine M.
    Moderator

    Hi everyone. We have read through all your comments and identified some common misunderstandings, that we will clarify here (and have updated the article above with). 

    A side note;
    This is clearly something we all feel quite passionate about, but I would like to stress that we need to keep the conversation civil and non-personal. We will be removing comments using abusive language or personal attacks. 

    To clarify:

    We are keeping perpetual licenses, and you can still buy them anytime, after February 1st, 2023 or even after September 30th, 2023. 

    When we state,"There will not be a Capture One 24", it only means we are changing the product's naming. We will continue to release versions of Capture One Pro, that can be purchased as a perpetual license.

     

    We will release information about our loyalty program before February 1st, 2023. We have heard you and will release information about the new loyalty program two weeks before February 1st, 2023, so you can have enough time to make an informed decision. 

     

    If you have already purchased or upgraded to Capture One Pro 23 (or plan to do so before February 1st, 2023): The product we released in early November is exactly the same as you are getting. The new license model will be implemented on Feb 1st, 2023, impacting only new purchases of Capture One Pro. So you will be getting free updates (incl. features and bug fixes) through to September 30th, 2023.

    You will be able to purchase the version of Capture One Pro released after September 30th, 2023 if you want to - and you will be able to do so through our loyalty program (which we will share more information about in January).

    If you choose not to upgrade, you will be able to use the version of Capture One Pro you have purchased without losing any of its features, just as it has always been the case with perpetual licenses.


    Christine Monberg, 
    Head of Customer Success

    -5
  • EM

    @Christine Monberg

    Customer Success ???

    I call it Customer Desaster or at least Communication Desaster :(

     

    Where is my requested purchase price refund of V23?

    0
  • Sascha Schlachter

    So to get it right:
    I can have and run my C1 perpetual and have a subscription if I want to without deactivating my perpetual? Otherwise you would be bullying us all.

    0
  • Permanently deleted user

    Hi Christine,

    it is about time, that any reaction is coming. So thanks. BUT:

    When you read through the comments there are so many, many, detailed and accurate things you say nothing about. But it NEEDs an answer if you want to survive as a company.

    Also: Your answers don't explain the big discrepancies that many have already shown you in your communication.

    So to finalize it: Your answers did NOT change the reason why we react, as we do it. Sorry. Please read again through the comments and understand every single point. It is really critical for you and your company to do this.

    2
  • Stefan Sipl

    I think it won‘t help, since the company has decided to no value customers anymore as a company should do. 

    Only time will tell if they can afford to behave like this. 

    0
  • Permanently deleted user

    To explain ONE of the many points even more: The critic is NOT about perpetual licenses going away. We do understand, they don't at this time BUT:

    - can you promis us, that they won't go away for the next five or ten years? We need a reliable company. In the past years you have changed your mind so many times aobut licenses (removed branded licenses) and money (big increases in the past many years), your are not trustworthy anymore for us.

    - Even if perpetual licenses stay longer: You give us less (nor more functional updates) for the same money! Additionally you charged more and more money ALREADY in the past years. You already increased your prices beyond the rational (Adobe! LR!)

    This is just ONE of many points. Please read through the comments and understand!

    1
  • Stefan Sipl

    30% of right now on DXO. Maybe worth a try as an alternative since Capture One doesn‘t want to have certain customers anymore. 

    1
  • Permanently deleted user

    One more point: Don't take too much time to react in a way, which really, really shows, that you are understanding and hearing completely. This has not happend with your answer :-(

    I write this, because it is already starting: In the biggest german forum for photography (over 500.000 users) there is a thread in which people ask for a good raw converter.... as you can expect some people show them this thread here. You are already loosing potential NEW customers (not speaking of the current customers...).

    So it started already, what you put in motion...

     

    2
  • Richard Reader

    @Christine Monberg
    Apart from now stating that the loyalty programme will be disclosed before 1st February 2023 (why not now, you surely know what it is?), what else in your post is supposed to reassure your customers?
    I think we understand that the perpetual licence is still going to be there. How you number it is meaningless, after all you only introduced the year thing in 2020, prior to that it was version numbers, and that is what you're returning to. The question is how you are implementing any subsequent upgrades and/or bug fixes.

    As I see it, if I purchase v16. 1.x before 1st February then I get 16.2.x, 16.3.x etc., up until 30th Sept and they'll include feature updates and bug fixes. After September I'd get nothing unless I upgrade. Whether that's a v16.x.x or v17 is unknown.
    If I put off upgrading to C1P23 until 1st February I might get, let's call it, v16.3.2, the . The only upgrades I'm going to get are going to be those that fix bugs, and then only until September. If I want a features upgrade I need to pay for it.
    The thing is, we, your customers, aren't being given any information where this is going, particularly after September. Regardless of whether I buy before or after 1st Feb, I'm going to have to upgrade after September just to keep bug fixes going if you're still sticking with v16.x.x.
    If I do upgrade after September how long am I going to get bug fixes for? How much will I have to pay I I want a new feature? If I don't upgrade for 18 months, when I do will it include all earlier feature upgrades (I think I'm beginning to see where your loyalty thing comes in here).
    The point is, you've provided a half-baked explanation of where you're taking the perpetual licence. You haven't given any clues as to what the ongoing cost will be and people, your customer base, are rightfully concerned. You're suggesting that from a certain date it'll be necessary to pay for bug fixes - that's akin to a camera manufacturer saying that after 6 months you got to pay for a firmware upgrade for a glitch in the auto focus system - that camera manufacturer would be rightly lambasted.
    Even if, after all this, your new licencing system isn't as bad as being envisaged here, I think Capture One ought to take on board that this has been an awful exercise in communication and PR.

    2
  • Thomas Kyhn Rovsing Hjørnet
    Top Commenter

    Hi Christine,

    A few questions that haven't yet been answered:

    1) How can you take away a benefit, i.e. reduced upgrade prices, which you have already sold? (When you buy a perpetual license, it specifically says "Reduced price every time you upgrade if you have a license" – see this page).

    2) What is the reasoning behind taking away reduced upgrade prices? Is it supposed to somehow benefit users? Or is it only to be understood as a price hike for existing users?

    3) Given that taking away reduced upgrade prices is a way of pushing users toward subscription, why should anyone want to pay €29 a month for Capture One (on top of which comes the price of additional applications for adding/editing GPS metadata + handling larger catalogues/DAM) when you can get a Lightroom + Photoshop subscription for €11,89 a month? (Not to mention the poor customer support that comes with Capture One's considerably higher price.)

    Thomas

    1
  • Christine M.
    Moderator

    EM: First of all, we can't process a refund request through a comment on an article. If you have purchased Capture One 23, you are not getting anything less than what you purchased. But I see that you have multiple questions and comments here, so I will create a ticket on your behalf and I will do my best to address them. Please allow me some time to read through all of your comments and consolidate an answer to you. 

    @...: I have read through every single comment here. So if I have missed something, feel free to raise it again with me here or in a ticket. I will not be able to answer every single comment in here, but with the addition to the article, I believe that a lot of the comments have been addressed. As for your recent comments; No company would promise not to change their business practices for five to ten years. We are keeping the perpetual license model and will not remove any users access to a license they have purchased. Reg. price vs. amounts of feature updates; We have perpetual licenses so you don't have to upgrade if you don't think that the value of the features are higher than the cost of upgrading. 

    Sascha Schlachter: Right now; If you upgrade perpetual license to a subscription, you don't have access to the perpetual anymore. But you have always had the option of owning both a subscription and a perpetual license. I hope that clarifies it - if not, feel free to create a ticket with your specific question. 

    0
  • Thomas Kyhn Rovsing Hjørnet
    Top Commenter

    "If you have purchased Capture One 23, you are not getting anything less than what you purchased." (Christine)

    In as much as perpetual licenses were supposed to entitle you to reduced prices every time you upgrade, this is not entirely correct.

    1
  • Permanently deleted user

    30% of right now on DXO. Maybe worth a try as an alternative since Capture One doesn‘t want to have certain customers anymore. 

    You only get 30% discount if you buy 2 products. But this is what most people don't need. At least for me no choice at the moment.

    -1
  • Jack V

    For me as a hobby photographer C1 is already (too) expensive because I do not use (m)any of the productivity and advanced features. For me it’s clear C1 is focussing on professional use and adapt the license model and price for that. (If professional photographer is the majority of C1 users then this change could make sense?)

    For me “time is money” is less important. But I do like the quality, library functions and overall use. That made me upgrade from 2 years C1 Express to Pro. I did need some of the Pro functions like Keystone and multiple libraries. But with the idea to skip some main releases because the high, and every next year higher cost of C1. A less expensive “Essentials?” C1 with, for example; full Library functions but without layers will work for me. The positive is my C1 version 23 will be in September 2023 virtually on version 24 level if C1 really add functionality during that period.

    I will use that time to see what is the new pricing, what loyalty program means and form my decision. Most likely -my thoughts now- I will leave C1 and DxO seems the most promising as successor. Maybe with a separate library/culling application.

    1
  • Greg Theulings

    It looks like Capture One just 'nuked' itself by dropping a bombshell that didn't land well with its customer base.
    At the time of this writing there have been 383 comments made....

    By the looks of it CO made a huge marketing blunder that is going to hurt themselves for a looooong time to come.
    How can you regain trust at the moment you just lost all of that trust by a single e-mail?

    This is going to be your biggest challenge for 2023, as I think many of your customers will think twice for opting to another 'perpetual' license which seems to come down to a subscription model in disguise

    My business advice to you:
    1. Fire the man with the 'genius' plan you embraced (his numbers are way off the mark).

    2. Make a call to Affinity asap.
    3.  Get around the table to sell off CO to Affinity before Q2 2023.
    4. Let Affinity develop Capture One in future.
    5. Give your customerbase peace of mind.

    Most people Capture One gained over the past couple of years were those that left Adobe because of their subscription model. They saw (me included) a safehaven in Capture One in having a professional RAW editing solution that still offered a perpetual license. Even though your solution is more expensive and offeres less in features and actual applications for more money. People stayed with Capture One only for ONE thing: the perpetual licence option!

    Now that all seems to fall away and all of a sudden Adobe has been back on the table by many here.
    Most likely because many also still have a Adobe subscription just for the use of Photoshop. Which is still the industry standard.
    And if they don't use Photoshop any longer chances are they went Affinity because of their great value for small money.

    So what will happen next, you think?
    I can't think for you, but I personally think, many people will just drop Capture One and go back Lightroom and Photoshop as they were already paying for it anyway.... and Capture One will be left empty handed. Those that don't want to go back Adobe, will go DXO or any other solution that still offers a perpetual license.

    0
  • Christine M.
    Moderator

    Richard Reader: You write that you will have to upgrade in September to keep bug fixes etc. going; That has always been the case. When a new paid version is released, we don't backport bug fixes to older versions. So really nothing is changing for customers who buy before February 1st. 
    We will continue to launch perpetual versions to Capture One Pro. We will just do it in a difference cadence, but still providing loyalty discounts. 

    Thomas Kyhn Rovsing Hjørnet:
    We will not take away the option to get a reduced price to get the new version of Capture One; the loyalty program will replace the upgrade option. More on this in January (2 weeks before any changes are implemented). 

    To everyone: If anyone has any specific questions, we are happy to take them in the support channel, which makes it easier to address individual cases. We will continue to update the above article with FAQs as they tick in.


    1
  • EM

    @Christine Monberg: thank you in advance for your efforts in my case. Irina from Capture One Support knows my request. I have declared the claim for my refund. I bought V23 because a discount was promised for future upgrades at the time of my purchase.

    Now loyal users are no longer to get a discounted upgrade, but are to buy a new licence. This is unacceptable to me and does not correspond to the conditions advertised at the time of my purchase. Therefore, I am withdrawing from the purchase and requesting a refund.

    Please notice the screenshots of this subject in my post a little further up.

    For me, an unknown loyalty program is not a substitute for a known discounted upgrade option.

    So now I want my money back for V23 and we can talk about buying V23 again after the loyalty option is announced and I am happy with it.

    1
  • Thomas Kyhn Rovsing Hjørnet
    Top Commenter

    Christine M.

    We will not take away the option to get a reduced price to get the new version of Capture One; the loyalty program will replace the upgrade option. More on this in January (2 weeks before any changes are implemented).

    I'm glad to hear that. But as quite a few users here and elsewhere, including me, seem to have understood the new license model to mean just that, perhaps it would be a good idea to state this explicitly in the FAQ above.

    5
  • Permanently deleted user

    Christine: Thanks for your answer. If you think, you have answered all the questions... I am very sure, you did not. Sorry for that. Especially the painful questions seem to slip through your vision. I haven't the time to pick up all, as you have already read it and decided to ignore it.

    Here is one question from me, that is still open (I repeat from my post above):

    - Even if perpetual licenses stay longer: You give us less (nor more functional updates) for the same money! Additionally you charged more and more money ALREADY in the past years. You already increased your prices beyond the rational (Adobe! LR!)

    Here you have one very recent question you don't like to talk about.

    Your other answer: If the reason for nearly half of your user or a third of your users to work with CO is, that it is no subscription and you refuse to promise anything for the future: Think about it.

    For this numbers of users you are not to be trusted. It doesn't matter what other companies do (others do make promises!), but you position yourself in a way, that is very clear and helpful for us, to know, how you are handling your customers and this situation. I can and will not recommend CO to anyone in the future because of your comment and many, many will do the same. Thanks for making this clear to us.

    2
  • SHS

    30% of right now on DXO. Maybe worth a try as an alternative since Capture One doesn‘t want to have certain customers anymore. 

    You only get 30% discount if you buy 2 products. But this is what most people don't need. At least for me no choice at the moment.

    DxO Photolab + FilmPack is what I'm currently looking at.  

    0
  • Dmitry Yaraev

    @Christine Monberg

    Thank you for the clarification but I think that for many of us upgrade policy is quite important. When I buy a software product I am not only considering its features and price but also support and upgrade possibilities. And this is exactly what is currently missing. Also receiving only bug fixes is completely wrong. It was stated that those who would buy Capture One after February 1st will receive only minor updates which is unfair.

    Probably, you think that the number of new features is limited and it becomes more and more difficult to release versions packed with new features. But it is not completely true. Just look at the competitors. They offer quite a lot of unique features. And even if it is was true then you just wouldn’t need a big development team, so costs can be reduced here. I witnessed a lot of companies where two developers had a individual manager. I don’t know if it is a case in your team but it is also a way to reduce costs and make development even more efficient.

    Anyway we trusted you when we bought Capture One and now it’s up to you how not to kill this trust.

    And by the way, since you referred to us customers who asked for this change, I don’t see anyone who would be for it. I can tell for myself that I #didntaskaboutit.

    1
  • Permanently deleted user

    Christine: You wrote:

    To everyone: If anyone has any specific questions, we are happy to take them in the support channel, which makes it easier to address individual cases. We will continue to update the above article with FAQs as they tick in.

    I think everyone can decide by himself, which is the best way. This discussion needs to be open to everyone to read! Everyone need to see the quesitons and your reactions to it. Including the answers, which shows, what is really going on.

     

    4
  • Permanently deleted user

    Under ‘usual’ software warranty, dealers are obliged to provide updates for digital products and goods with digital elements that are necessary for full usability and security. The time warranty period for software, as for most other products, is typically 12-24 months.

    Capture One 23 was released on November 8, 2022. As of October 1, 2023, updates are only possible with a new license. Capture One disregards the (usual) legal warranty period of at least 12 months. This is unacceptable.

    Use cases:

    1 On October 10, 2023, a dangerous security vulnerability becomes known, caused by Capture One V23. How does Capture One comply with the legal (usual) warranty period for software?

    2 On September 20, 2023, Capture One releases an update. It subsequently turns out that the software is very buggy. The fix update is released on October 1, 2023. Customers will be 'forced' to buy a new license to get a running version. How will Capture One prevent such situations?

    Let's have no illusions, as small customers we are probably simply irrelevant to Capture One management. That is their decision. Taking responsibility looks different.

    3
  • Martin Hammer

    Monberg:“ So really nothing is changing for customers who buy before February 1st.“

    Das stimmt so nicht. Bisher bekam man mindestens ein ganzes Jahr lang Verbesserungen und andere Updates. Diesmal weniger als ein Jahr. Es entspricht also einfach nicht der Wahrheit, dass sich für Besitzer einer 23er Lizenz nichts ändern würde. Und warum kommuniziert Ihr das nicht vor dem Kauf? Das wäre eine ehrliche und faire Geschäftspolitik.
    Ihr habt schon mal den Vogel abgeschossen, als Ihr den super-duper, einmaligen super nie wiederkehrenden Rabatt angeboten habt, obwohl noch gar nicht released. Und kurze Zeit später allen die gesuldig waren und nicht so doof waren, euch zu vertrauen, per Black Friday noch mehr gegeben habt.

    Wo genau waren die von euch garantierten 33% Nachlass beim Upgrade am Black Friday? Neukunden haben 209 Euro bezahlt, Bestandskunden für ein Upgrade auch. Nach eurer Garantie hätten es aber nur 140 Euro sein dürfen. Auch da wieder anders gehandelt als versprochen.

    Es ist traurig. Seit Captureone kein Rawkonverter, sondern nur noch eine Cash Cow ist.

    4
  • Henk de Haan

    @Christine Monberg wrote

    You write that you will have to upgrade in September to keep bug fixes etc. going; That has always been the case. When a new paid version is released, we don't backport bug fixes to older versions. So really nothing is changing for customers who buy before February 1st. 

    The difference is that in the current situation we now how long bug fixes will be available (one year after the first release). In the new situation it can be 2 months or 2 years, depending on the new feature releases. I expect Capture One to guarantee at least 12 months of bug fixes after the first release of a 16.x.0 version. You can't expect users to pay for bug fixes!

    By EU law you even are obliged to give a two year warranty to your (digital) product: https://blog.intigriti.com/2022/06/27/new-eu-law-changing-game-digital-goods-producers 

    I suspect the latest version of the 'Software License Agreements' violates the EU directive as it mentions an 'AS-IS' warranty. Maybe someone who knows more about EU law can confirm this.

    4
  • Bill

    Henk de Haan  Thank you to the EU for protecting our rights.  We would never get such consumer focused legislation in North America.

    This has got to be a huge game changer for Capture One, especially now.

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